TLOU2 Review Thread

[hanselthecaretaker]

One thing I don't really agree with is not being able to go into something fairly because of stuff you heard (and various other preconceptions). Not to say that you can go into anything completely unbiased but I'm not going to go into something thinking it sucks and not give it a chance or vice verse. Sure my biases might have me unconciously lower or raise my final score of something by maybe a point, but it's not going to greatly influence my enjoyment of something majorly. Though with how rampant confirmation bias is among most people, I can see it being an issue with a lot of people.

---

One last little thing I forgot to mention in both my "review" posts from watching the Youtube movie. There is one little dialog exchange I laughed at between 2 characters about platforming in fact. One character jumps and is barely able to make the jump and has to pull themselves up and the other character says something along the lines of "you can jump farther with a running start". I found it funny because these games don't have real platforming like in Uncharted you can make a long jump from a standstill. Games in general not having real platforming just disappoints me.

But in TLoU2 you can jump farther with a running start. Uncharted has never even had running (in SP other than scripted sequences) which I was disappointed by especially in 4 and LL after TLoU did it so well. It could’ve made the platforming and general traversal feel more free form. Not quite parkour level but at least more freedom than it had.

 

[Casual Shinji]

If that's the case, I rather not waste $60 on something just for 30 minutes. But if you enjoyed it okay then.

And you shouldn't, but hey, since I already spent 60 bucks on it I'm glad I was able to extract at least one little nugged of joy from it.

 

[Nick Calandra]

I'm working on my thoughts on The Last of Us Part II currently and it's a very conflicting game. I don't think the writing was a s strong as a lot of the reviews made it out to be, but I thoroughly enjoyed my time with the game. I love the world, I love the characters and even the gameplay. I think it's biggest fault is the structure and pacing of its story, and also in its attempt to say "something" it kinda says nothing.

HOWEVER, I'm writing a piece about how I interpreted that and why I found it very interesting. So I'll save that talk for my article.

But yea, I'm dreading our The Escapist Show on Sunday because I talk about The Last of Us 2 in it and my thoughts and I'm just waiting for the reactionaries to come for my throat for even enjoying the game. The flipside are the people that can't accept any criticism of it either.

Media discourse over divisive pieces of media has gotten so toxic online. It's so frustrating that there's so many people that think you either can enjoy something, or you cannot with no in-between. Heck, the Reddit community for The Last of Us is literally The Last Jedi all over again. It's ridiculous. Then I have to hear from a friend who hasn't even played the game, but read the leaks and tell me how stupid he thinks it all is without even playing the game himself.

Just so stupid.

 

[BrawlMan]

One thing I don't really agree with is not being able to go into something fairly because of stuff you heard (and various other preconceptions). Not to say that you can go into anything completely unbiased but I'm not going to go into something thinking it sucks and not give it a chance or vice verse. Sure my biases might have me unconciously lower or raise my final score of something by maybe a point, but it's not going to greatly influence my enjoyment of something majorly. Though with how rampant confirmation bias is among most people, I can see it being an issue with a lot of people.

I take it you were referring to Woolie? I usually am fair regardless of scandals or controversies, but I've had my moments.

Also, here's Dunkey keeping it real. The video does contain spoilers.

 

[BrawlMan]

HOWEVER, I'm writing a piece about how I interpreted that and why I found it very interesting. So I'll save that talk for my article.

But yea, I'm dreading our The Escapist Show on Sunday because I talk about The Last of Us 2 in it and my thoughts and I'm just waiting for the reactionaries to come for my throat for even enjoying the game. The flipside are the people that can't accept any criticism of it either.

Media discourse over divisive pieces of media has gotten so toxic online. It's so frustrating that there's so many people that think you either can enjoy something, or you cannot with no in-between. Heck, the Reddit community for The Last of Us is literally The Last Jedi all over again. It's ridiculous. Then I have to hear from a friend who hasn't even played the game, but read the leaks and tell me how stupid he thinks it all is without even playing the game himself.

Just so stupid.

Whatever your opinion is, I support you. The problem with people is everyone wants to be the alpha b#tch while being the victim at the same time. Can't have it both ways you assholes with the with me or against me attitude. That is why I will happily tell both sides acting like jerks to fuck off.

 

[Nick Calandra]

Whatever your opinion is, I support you. The problem with people is everyone wants to be the alpha btch while being the victim at the same time. Can't have it both ways you assholes with the with me or against me attitude. That is why I will happily tell both sides acting like jerks to fuck off.

Yup, that's where I'm at with it. I'm more than happy to talk about media, and hear other people's opinions on it. I love those conversations. But the second someone starts bringing in talking points taken from social media (this happens all the damn time now and it's so frustrating, because I literally see people repeating the same things everyone else has said) then I nope out of that conversation.

Idk how we got to a point where we can't read, watch or play a piece of media, take different things from it, and then have people literally jump down your throat for interpreting it differently. I can't even imagine what my literature classes in high school or college would have been like if they were anything like the convos that happen on social media. I would have put my head through multiple walls.

 

[BrawlMan]

Idk how we got to a point where we can't read, watch or play a piece of media, take different things from it, and then have people literally jump down your throat for interpreting it differently. I can't even imagine what my literature classes in high school or college would have been like if they were anything like the convos that happen on social media. I would have put my head through multiple walls.

I just know if we all started acting like that in high school on social media, the school and our parents would kick our asses.

 

[Gyrobot]

Stand fast, stand strong. Do not let the weeb angry that his game got censored for sexual deter you, do not let the reactionaries intimidate you. Say what you believe it for if it's art, it's art.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

But in TLoU2 you can jump farther with a running start. Uncharted has never even had running (in SP other than scripted sequences) which I was disappointed by especially in 4 and LL after TLoU did it so well. It could’ve made the platforming and general traversal feel more free form. Not quite parkour level but at least more freedom than it had.

Really? I'm pretty surprised by that considering Uncharted is canned animations for jumps. Though I don't think anyone is playing TLOU for platforming gameplay. I wonder if you can actually make the jump in that one sequence where the character comments on it though.

I take it you were referring to Woolie? I usually am fair regardless of scandals or controversies, but I've had my moments.

Whoever was in that video from the message I quoted.

But yea, I'm dreading our The Escapist Show on Sunday because I talk about The Last of Us 2 in it and my thoughts and I'm just waiting for the reactionaries to come for my throat for even enjoying the game. The flipside are the people that can't accept any criticism of it either.

Media discourse over divisive pieces of media has gotten so toxic online. It's so frustrating that there's so many people that think you either can enjoy something, or you cannot with no in-between. Heck, the Reddit community for The Last of Us is literally The Last Jedi all over again. It's ridiculous. Then I have to hear from a friend who hasn't even played the game, but read the leaks and tell me how stupid he thinks it all is without even playing the game himself.

Just so stupid.

...I can't even imagine what my literature classes in high school or college would have been like if they were anything like the convos that happen on social media. I would have put my head through multiple walls.

The one thing I don't get about professional game reviews is the lack of individual opinions, there's nearly always a consensus opinion about any game including TLOU2. You don't even have that with movies by critics (or just friends) while a game is both a movie and a game in one (especially like TLOU), and you're going to tell me there's going to be MORE agreement in a piece of media that's far longer and has an entirely interactive component to it? I think gamers basically caused this themselves by wanting "objectivity" in reviews for some reason.

Social media is easily the worst media...

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Yup, that's where I'm at with it. I'm more than happy to talk about media, and hear other people's opinions on it. I love those conversations. But the second someone starts bringing in talking points taken from social media (this happens all the damn time now and it's so frustrating, because I literally see people repeating the same things everyone else has said) then I nope out of that conversation.

Idk how we got to a point where we can't read, watch or play a piece of media, take different things from it, and then have people literally jump down your throat for interpreting it differently. I can't even imagine what my literature classes in high school or college would have been like if they were anything like the convos that happen on social media. I would have put my head through multiple walls.

I get why reviews more often than not have personal feelings attached, but on the other hand...it’s why it’d be preferable if that part wasn’t *influencing* whatever “score” something gets as much, because it seems that’s where a lot of the conflict stems. There is very little that can be labeled “definitive” when personal feelings are involved, but people act like it is, and these opinions get exponentially manifested usually for the worse.

The delicate balancing act would be critiquing in a way that identifies and examines subjective issues like story, art style, etc. in a more constructive way, which sounds impossible but I think there have already been several examples of it in this thread.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Yup, that's where I'm at with it. I'm more than happy to talk about media, and hear other people's opinions on it. I love those conversations. But the second someone starts bringing in talking points taken from social media (this happens all the damn time now and it's so frustrating, because I literally see people repeating the same things everyone else has said) then I nope out of that conversation.

Idk how we got to a point where we can't read, watch or play a piece of media, take different things from it, and then have people literally jump down your throat for interpreting it differently. I can't even imagine what my literature classes in high school or college would have been like if they were anything like the convos that happen on social media. I would have put my head through multiple walls.

I would say it's three fold.
1. The old point about the internet and anonymity emboldening people to be more extreme than they'd be if someone could immediately punch them in the face for saying the crap they do.
2. Non stop news and media+consumerism, news sites are expected more than ever to give new news all the time as apposed to ye olden times from before the internet and phones, this leads to people constantly having the current politics in their face and in their heads and the media is incentivized to feed into all of this with ever more shocking and click baity articles to keep up with demand.
3. Lack of true connection, we get all this news all the time about things happening thousands of miles away from us, and while it is important to be abreast of current events, we lack true context of much of what we hear about and no real capacity to effect what's happening other than yelling at each other. What I mean by this is that if you hear that someone got shot in a drive by in California but you live in Montana, there's not really much connection or way for you to effect that situation. But if you hear about someone getting shot in a drive by in your neighborhood? That'll get you on your feet and doing something. We're much more capable and incentivized to take action when it involves the world we live in on a day to day basis but we spend most of our time worrying about what's happening in places we have no immediate control over.

Not sure why I typed this... I'm probably rambling again.

 

[NotDavidHayter]

I've been playing through The Last of Us 2 and much of the subject matter in this game can be labeled as being "progressive". Female rage and anger seems to be a recurring theme. If the first game is about male love and the anxieties of fatherhood and how far a person will go to protect their child even if they do it for selfish reasons then the second game certainly is about the hate that can fester within young women toward their own agency being denied. Most of the main cast is female and Ellie is in a romantic relationship with a Jewish woman (cue the angry YouTube mob). The game does go out of it's way to stop and say "these characters are not generic cis white dudes" a lot. Personally I take no real issue with this even if I admit it does feel a little forced at times. I only eye rolled once or twice. Perhaps an honest criticism would be how disjointed some of the dialouge feels when it leans in to attempting to score woke points. Scenes like this just feel less earned and well written than others (the scene where Joel and Ellie visit the museum is hands down one of the best in video game history, it is just perfect) but at least the game tries to amplify voices I guess. The reaction I'm seeing from some people is because the game leans in to feminist themes then the game is therefore meritless. I don't agree with this. Some art has a message or critique that can be linked to either left or right wing world views but that doesn't automatically make it meritless. Take S. Craig Zahler's latest film Dragged Across Concrete, it oozes conservative themes and yet I see it as a truly great work of art. The Last of Us 2 does the same thing and while I think one can decide for themselves if they like the game or not I don't like this idea that because a piece of media is influenced from one school of thought or another it is automatically good or bad.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I get why reviews more often than not have personal feelings attached, but on the other hand...it’s why it’d be preferable if that part wasn’t *influencing* whatever “score” something gets as much, because it seems that’s where a lot of the conflict stems. There is very little that can be labeled “definitive” when personal feelings are involved, but people act like it is, and these opinions get exponentially manifested usually for the worse.

The delicate balancing act would be critiquing in a way that identifies and examines subjective issues like story, art style, etc. in a more constructive way, which sounds impossible but I think there have already been several examples of it in this thread.

I don't agree at all with having objective qualities heavily weight a score. And even then, there are very few objective qualities about a game in the 1st place. Even if a game has a really functional and top-notch looting system or crafting system, maybe the player feels removing those systems would make the game better. I've heard people say the searching for craft-able components in TLOU2 causes pacing issues for example, which like most things is subjective. I would say gameplay functionality is more objective than most things (even if you don't care for COD, the shooting is still solid and very functional) but if a game's score was then heavily weighted towards gameplay certain games' scores would be greatly lowered while others would be greatly raised like how Platinum games are all about gameplay and something like a Naughty Dog game isn't. SkillUp's review of RDR2 would be much much more negative if he weighted gameplay well above story.

At the end of the day, any review about anything is basically someone "proving" an argument. And the best reviewers are really good at articulating the whys behind their conclusions. After watching a TLOU2 movie, I get why SkillUp said everything he said, even though I don't agree with how much it affected my enjoyment, and there's nothing wrong with that. I find Skillup a better reviewer than Rurikhan even though Rurikhan's overall feeling on the TLOU2 is closer to mine but Skillup is a better arguer of his points and he goes more in-depth.

 

[Nick Calandra]

The one thing I don't get about professional game reviews is the lack of individual opinions, there's nearly always a consensus opinion about any game including TLOU2. You don't even have that with movies by critics (or just friends) while a game is both a movie and a game in one (especially like TLOU), and you're going to tell me there's going to be MORE agreement in a piece of media that's far longer and has an entirely interactive component to it? I think gamers basically caused this themselves by wanting "objectivity" in reviews for some reason.

Social media is easily the worst media...

Yea, this is why for 1) we don't have scores and 2) we don't really do a whole lot of written reviews anymore, if we do written coverage it's some form of critique or commentary about the game which as a reader and writer, I find more interesting and discussion worthy.

The problem with what games media is doing right now, is using reviews to push agendas then just say what they really feel about the game and provide interesting commentary on it. They're providing commentary to get you to think a certain way about games rather than just breaking it down and analyzing what they got of the experience.

VG247's review on The Last of Us 2 is the most cringe-worthy thing I think I've read in my time as a games journalist / coverage person, whatever.

 

[CriticalGaming]

i cant wait to see what Yahtzee is going to say about this game, since story telling is kinda his thing.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I've been playing through The Last of Us 2 and much of the subject matter in this game can be labeled as being "progressive". Female rage and anger seems to be a recurring theme. If the first game is about male love and the anxieties of fatherhood and how far a person will go to protect their child even if they do it for selfish reasons then the second game certainly is about the hate that can fester within young women toward their own agency being denied. Most of the main cast is female and Ellie is in a romantic relationship with a Jewish woman (cue the angry YouTube mob). The game does go out of it's way to stop and say "these characters are not generic cis white dudes" a lot. Personally I take no real issue with this even if I admit it does feel a little forced at times. I only eye rolled once or twice. Perhaps an honest criticism would be how disjointed some of the dialouge feels when it leans in to attempting to score woke points. Scenes like this just feel less earned and well written than others (the scene where Joel and Ellie visit the museum is hands down one of the best in video game history, it is just perfect) but at least the game tries to amplify voices I guess. The reaction I'm seeing from some people is because the game leans in to feminist themes then the game is therefore meritless. I don't agree with this. Some art has a message or critique that can be linked to either left or right wing world views but that doesn't automatically make it meritless. Take S. Craig Zahler's latest film Dragged Across Concrete, it oozes conservative themes and yet I see it as a truly great work of art. The Last of Us 2 does the same thing and while I think one can decide for themselves if they like the game or not I don't like this idea that because a piece of media is influenced from one school of thought or another it is automatically good or bad.

True, and it’ll only happen once we’re able to do away with labels and agendas for everything, and just see them as different things.

Morgan Freeman had it embarrassingly right -

I don't agree at all with having objective qualities heavily weight a score. And even then, there are very few objective qualities about a game in the 1st place. Even if a game has a really functional and top-notch looting system or crafting system, maybe the player feels removing those systems would make the game better. I've heard people say the searching for craft-able components in TLOU2 causes pacing issues for example, which like most things is subjective. I would say gameplay functionality is more objective than most things (even if you don't care for COD, the shooting is still solid and very functional) but if a game's score was then heavily weighted towards gameplay certain games' scores would be greatly lowered while others would be greatly raised like how Platinum games are all about gameplay and something like a Naughty Dog game isn't. SkillUp's review of RDR2 would be much much more negative if he weighted gameplay well above story.

At the end of the day, any review about anything is basically someone "proving" an argument. And the best reviewers are really good at articulating the whys behind their conclusions. After watching a TLOU2 movie, I get why SkillUp said everything he said, even though I don't agree with how much it affected my enjoyment, and there's nothing wrong with that. I find Skillup a better reviewer than Rurikhan even though Rurikhan's overall feeling on the TLOU2 is closer to mine but Skillup is a better arguer of his points and he goes more in-depth.

I get that, but it still needs to be done in a way that presents their personal feelings on the subjective stuff without - one way or another - swaying the mindset of people haven’t even yet played something for themselves.

A lot of people in the comments for those reviews said thanks for saving them $60 based on their subjective feelings they projected into their viewers. Also, they are not nearly as thorough as you’re inclined to think; not even for story stuff let alone technical stuff. Hell, those people in the comments will miss out one of the best sequences Naughty Dog has ever done in terms of story, because they based their own opinions on the incomplete thoughts of some random youtube god.

 

[Dreiko]

I'm working on my thoughts on The Last of Us Part II currently and it's a very conflicting game. I don't think the writing was a s strong as a lot of the reviews made it out to be, but I thoroughly enjoyed my time with the game. I love the world, I love the characters and even the gameplay. I think it's biggest fault is the structure and pacing of its story, and also in its attempt to say "something" it kinda says nothing.

HOWEVER, I'm writing a piece about how I interpreted that and why I found it very interesting. So I'll save that talk for my article.

But yea, I'm dreading our The Escapist Show on Sunday because I talk about The Last of Us 2 in it and my thoughts and I'm just waiting for the reactionaries to come for my throat for even enjoying the game. The flipside are the people that can't accept any criticism of it either.

Media discourse over divisive pieces of media has gotten so toxic online. It's so frustrating that there's so many people that think you either can enjoy something, or you cannot with no in-between. Heck, the Reddit community for The Last of Us is literally The Last Jedi all over again. It's ridiculous. Then I have to hear from a friend who hasn't even played the game, but read the leaks and tell me how stupid he thinks it all is without even playing the game himself.

Just so stupid.

This game definitely makes for a strange reception.

I was initially in the so called reactionary camp but I am now finding myself defending this game which I consider to be compromised fundamentally because people should still get to enjoy it more than Schindler's List without being attacked and it is just as valid to be moved by it as by any other thing since it's all subjective. And I've not even gotten a chance to play it yet lol. (persona 5 R is consuming my entire gaming time and will be for a week or two more easy)

I don't expect everyone to come at this with my level of nuance and a lot of people will just stop at the manly lesbian/trans person/whatever and make fun of it and stop but we still can strive for that at least.

 

[fOx]

That is basically what TLOU is. And The Road is just the Lone Wolf & Cub + Mad Max. Never read the book, but saw the film once. It was okay. Give me Mad Max, Fist of the Northstar, Double Dragon, Violent Storm, or Fallout for a post-apoc story over that.

Aren't Double Dragon and Violent Storm arcade games?

 

[sXeth]

I don't agree at all with having objective qualities heavily weight a score. And even then, there are very few objective qualities about a game in the 1st place. Even if a game has a really functional and top-notch looting system or crafting system, maybe the player feels removing those systems would make the game better.

I'd actually prettymuch 100% say that. The crafting/survival what have you works fine in sandboxes or repeaty loot grinders.


In linear non-repeatable missions in narrative driven games, it just pushes a mindset of "complete encounter, laboriously scavenge the area over before moving on to the next one so you don't put yourself behind the curve". Which is prettymuch a knife in the kidneys to something like TLoU which is trying to push a barely-surviving on the run narrative.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I just got to the first real Abby section, and yikes, does this game fail at trying to make these characters characters. It so desperately tries to humanize her by pushing her fear of heights and that she likes to collect coins, meanwhile I'm not getting any sort of personality from her. Same with the companion characters Manny and Mel. Manny is hispanic and a womanizer, and Mel's pregnant dead meat. I mean, I didn't think Dina and Jesse were that great, but these people... I just get nothing from them.

It's not even that I hate Abby (for killing Joel), I'm just apathetic. I would've rather they made her more villianous or just a stone-faced killer. Either would've been more intriguing than this flacid character. At some points Laura Bailey's charm does shine through and gives her some life, but overall, no. Owen is actually kinda alright though, at least from what I've seen of him in that aquarium flashback.