Does honor matter in GoT? From what I’ve read there doesn’t seem to be much point to it other than some dialog changes. For a samurai game and SP’s track record it would seem they’d have a system that would at least be on par with the inFamous games.To be honest I wasn't expecting much, as it's a Rockstar game. My issue with Arthur, is the contradiction they have for the entire gang, and how the actions of the character, totally independent of MY actions as the player, are still often at odds with their concept of morality. I play Arthur as a nice person, who tries and helps people, and then the game yanks away all of my agency, and has him beat a man near to death. The game in fact, refuses to let me continue with the scene without me continuing to beat a man's face to a bloody pulp. I actually tried to stop beating him, you know, because I don't like playing a fucking psychopath with rage issues, and instead of the game having the option of letting you stop after several seconds of no input, and "coming to your senses" no, the game is like "No, you must beat him. YOU, the player, MUST continue to press the punch button, and bash this man's face until WE tell you you're done beating him." And then it's all just "oh hey he's fine, no big deal, I didn't hit him too bad (despite plenty of people in town commenting that the guy is REALLY fucked up now). Oh and yeah we're free and that's a GOOD thing! Them thar city folk are evil and bad!! Now let's go survive by being a parasite on their society and resources! Because our way of life is superior! But not at all sustainable! And sure, I murder and rob my way across the country, but it's OK, because I'm FREE!" And I'm just like "yeah, bullshit. That's utter, fucking bullshit, and I don't care. I don't care to be forced to play through your self-delusion on justification for your horrible actions, ESPECIALLY if the game gives me the false pretense of choice, when there isn't actually any choice in the matter."
This wouldn't be as big of an issue for me, if the game didn't pretend to give the player a choice in being an asshole or not. Because the Black/White hat meter, has no actual bearing on anything that I saw. People would still try and kill you at the drop of a hat for the smallest infraction in a town, often due to stupid fucking game mechanics about witnesses and actions. It didn't make people more amiable to me, it just moved that little bar left or right...that's it. Plus it was a dumb implementation too. I just murdered a guy, but hey go pay 10 bucks to the postal man, and it's clear, and then just walk around town saying "Howdy" to 30+ people, and all the negative karma I accrued from that murder, is balanced out on the scale. It's just not engaging for me. It's the trappings of choice, without actually having choice.
And that's my last comment on this in this thread, as our discussion is no longer directly about GOT, and I don't want to derail it any further. If you want to start a thread about this specifically sure, or PM me, that's fine. But i try and limit my derailing of threads as much as I can. And after 3 sets of quote/reply on a sidetopic, I try and draw the line there.
As for Red Dead, it’s understandable that the way it handles agency and narrative can be frustrating and off-putting, but it takes a lot more time than a chapter to see how it really affects anything story-wise. The little bar is just a visual reference point. The honor system is designed to be malleable so you’re not locked into one style the whole game. As cheesy as it is saying hi or paying off a bounty after a killing spree, it would be more frustrating to play if the game didn’t allow freedom to adjust on the fly somehow. It’s more up to the player to commit to a certain code than having the game hold you one.
The challenge the game has with making significant attempts at gamer agency is sticking to a strict narrative as a through line. The producer states in an interview,
“This is the story of something falling apart,” Nelson said. “In ‘Red Dead Redemption’s’ story John said I rode with a gang that left me to die. He references it a lot. We wanted to tell that story of why it unraveled.”
You can’t have a crafted narrative experience and simultaneously give any significant agency to the player without sacrificing something. This is why they made the choice to compromise with the latter in free roaming and had the missions themselves scripted, albeit admittedly a bit too much. But having said that, the assault on Braithwaite Manor wouldn’t have had the same impact if the player was off bumblefooting around trying to flank, lay traps in wait, stealth, etc. Same goes for the mission when the whole gang storms out on horseback with the native allies to take on the pinkertons.
As it is, the game still goes further than most towards blending the two in other ways. For instance it’ll thematically go out of its way towards making life difficult for a dishonorable playstyle. Does GoT’s difficulty level change at all depending on how you play? It sounds like the game more or less forces you to play “dishonorably” - ie stealthily - out of necessity to the plot.