Ghosts of Tsushima Review thread

[BrawlMan]

Phew. Is it like Final Fantasy 13... Do you agree with GGmanlives that you have to play for a dozen hours before you really enjoy it?

No. My brother and I couldn't even bother to finish final fantasy XIII. We barely made it to the second disc. it takes a minute for the game to get going. For me it took about an hour or two, but I had so much fun exploring that it didn't bother me. Plus I've been doing a lot of the side quest and liberating camps, so I can unlock more stuff quicker or gather resources. My main focus has been getting samurai and stances upgrades. with the ghost upgrade Stone in between. I try to keep it mostly even, but my play style is a mix and match of both. this game is just so gorgeous to travel through that there are times where I don't want to use the Fast travel. And speaking of the fast travel, it is near instantaneous. Only will take you about two to four seconds total. I mainly use it for what I know I have to upgrade stuff and I have the resources for it.

 

[gorfias]

I do feel that the beginning of the game is the weakest part-- without upgrades etc, combat is barebones to begin with, and you're pretty restricted in where you can go and what you can do.

But for me at least, it certainly wasn't a dozen hours kind of thing. It opened up after just about an hour.

An hour of frustration maybe I can do! Thanks! (Quit FF13 after about 10 hours: May try to pick it back up at some point).

No. My brother I couldn't even bother to finish final fantasy XIII. We barely made it to the second disc. it takes a minute for the game to get going. For me it took about an hour or two, but I had so much fun exploring that it didn't bother me. Plus I've been doing a lot of the side quest and liberating camps, so I can unlock more stuff quicker or gather resources. My main focus has been getting samurai and stances upgrades. with the ghost upgrade Stone in between. I try to keep it mostly even, but my play style is a mix and match of both. this game is just so gorgeous to travel through that there are times where I don't want to use the Fast travel. And speaking of the fast travel, it is near instantaneous. Only will take you about two to four seconds total. I mainly use it for what I know I have to upgrade stuff and I have the resources for it.

From what I'm reading, this may be the last Gen 8 game I buy at near full price. Just reading some really positive stuff. Thanks!

 

[Casual Shinji]

Phew. Is it like Final Fantasy 13... Do you agree with GGmanlives that you have to play for a dozen hours before you really enjoy it?

No, three hours at best. As soon as you unlock the Water stance things get a lot more fun. It also helps to unluck the Heavenly Strike as quickly as possible. If you see blue mission markers do those first, because they give you cool new stuff, like armors and special moves.

 

[gorfias]

No, three hours at best. As soon as you unlock the Water stance things get a lot more fun. It also helps to unluck the Heavenly Strike as quickly as possible. If you see blue mission markers do those first, because they give you cool new stuff, like armors and special moves.

Great advice, thanks!

 

[BrawlMan]

Welp, Yahtzee doesn't like the game. He does not exactly hate it, and come to see the positives, but he feels it is yet "another open world" game. Which to me is disingenuous at best. We all noticed the similarity to Assassins Creed, but I consider this game a combination of Assassin's Creed and Sony's answer Breath of the Wild. Surprised he never mentioned how relaxing the horse riding can be. Yahtzee also sounds like he's having kind of a small nervous breakdown. I get it dude, there is a lot of crap out in gaming, but don't get too cynical. Yeah yeah, I know it's Yahtzee, but sometimes he can be too cynical for his own good.

 

[stroopwafel]

Welp, Yahtzee doesn't like the game. he does not exactly hate it, and come to see to the positives, but he feels it is yet "another open world" game. Which to me is disingenuous at best. we all notice the similarity says asssassins Creed, but I consider this game a combination of Assassin's Creed and Sony's answer breath of the wild. Surprised he never mentioned how relaxing the horse riding can be. Yahtzee also sounds like he's having kind of a small nervous breakdown. I get it dude, there is a lot of crap out in gaming, but don't get too cynical. Yeah yeah, I know it's Yahtzee,but sometimes he can be too cynical for his own good.

I can't think of any way to lose my enjoyment in games quicker than playing them being my job.

 

[BrawlMan]

I can't think of any way to lose my enjoyment in games quicker than playing them being my job.

Agreed.

That's the life of a critic. Be it games, movies, TV, books, or food. There is a lot of shit to put up with. He's made his choices. He has chosen not to play other games. If Yahtzee wants to take a vacation right now I do not blame him.

 

[happyninja42]

Ok so my FINAL thoughts on GOT. Got to the first, what I consider significant point where, if my "Honor" playthrough, should have shown some variation.....and there was none.

I made a point, aside from the one mission where the game forces me to assassinate someone during the tutorial, to always fight openly. And yet, the big bad guy, still claims that his men are reporting finding mongols stabbed in the back, and implying that I've lost my way. Now, maybe he's just lying, and if I kept playing I would find out differently, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

So....that's less than fun for me. To set up a moral quandry for the protagonist that I have control of, imply in various game points that I have control over how he develops, and then not have that actually impact anything. I'm not a fan of that. I'd rather they didn't make it seem like I had a choice, and just let it be a story about someone crossing personal/moral boundaries, because he feels that protecting his people is more important than his own honor. Though I do think Jin states his personal thoughts on honor fairly succinctly in a flashback. Where he is asked what is honor to him, and he says "To protect those who can't protect themselves." So, if that's his concept of honor, he has been nothing but honorable from the start of the game.

But, that's kind of contradicted at other points in the game, if you trigger certain "bad boy" behavior.

It's not a huge detriment, as I find the game VERY fun, but, yeah it's annoying for me personally. GIve me agency, and have it mean something, or don't give me agency. Don't imply agency, and then actually not give it to me.

So I stopped the Honor run, because I just instantly lost the desire to play through it any further. I'll probably load up the original file and work on some achievements, but probably not. I'm not a completionist so the drive isn't too high for me.

Still, very fun game, if a bit clunky at the edges, and with some elements that I could do without.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Agreed.

That's the life of a critic. Be it games, movies, TV, books, or food. There is a lot of shit to put up with. He's made his choices. He has chosen not to play other games. If Yahtzee wants to take a vacation right now I do not blame him.

Is it normal for a person to act like that in the first place? I know it’s a literal act for the most part, but after enough time it might eventually start rubbing off a bit. I also wonder if the act supersedes reason, because in all of his reviews the one constant is a constant barrage of cynical one liners. It’s tough to ever tell if he truly enjoys anything, because it seems there’s like this wall up between the persona and the person.

 

[happyninja42]

Is it normal for a person to act like that in the first place? I know it’s a literal act for the most part, but after enough time it might eventually start rubbing off a bit. I also wonder if the act supersedes reason, because in all of his reviews the one constant is a constant barrage of cynical one liners. It’s tough to ever tell if he truly enjoys anything, because it seems there’s like this wall up between the persona and the person.

You should probably look for his non ZP content, where he isn't "performing". Like the slightly civil war podcasts, where he gives his normal, real thoughts on things.

But yes, he has said multiple times that he enjoys video games, and considers them a wonderful medium for entertainment and storytelling, but the ZP show is built around "snarky, cynical, British dry wit." So that's what you get. But I mean, he's done plenty of positive ZP's, so I don't really get where you think he doesn't truly enjoy anything?

For his job, he has the issue of having to try and burn through a game in less than a week, so that he can give a full review of it, so that does limit his list of games that he can play, and also means that he has to skip over a lot of the side content, especially in the larger, open world type games.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

You should probably look for his non ZP content, where he isn't "performing". Like the slightly civil war podcasts, where he gives his normal, real thoughts on things.

But yes, he has said multiple times that he enjoys video games, and considers them a wonderful medium for entertainment and storytelling, but the ZP show is built around "snarky, cynical, British dry wit." So that's what you get. But I mean, he's done plenty of positive ZP's, so I don't really get where you think he doesn't truly enjoy anything?

For his job, he has the issue of having to try and burn through a game in less than a week, so that he can give a full review of it, so that does limit his list of games that he can play, and also means that he has to skip over a lot of the side content, especially in the larger, open world type games.

Well that’s the problem with game reviews in general, is the demanding nature may have a tendency to jade people’s perception of a game. It isn’t like reviewing a movie or even a car, where there is only a set amount of time or itinerary required to form a critique. Even with books the slowest reader will probably still be able to finish in time to render a well-informed opinion without added pressure.

But since games are interactive and offer varying degrees of challenge stacked on top of length, there’s often only so much a person can do without stressing the hell out about it or just saying *whatever*. I think if consumers are going to keep using reviews as a buying metric then the only solution is that reviewers are given more adequate time to avoid the pressure cooker (I know it’s only a job involving games but it typically is still their livelihoods with deadlines involved) environment so they can actually, like, be entertained without the added pressure like the normal consumers they’re serving would.

How much time should be enough? Well, guaranteed several testers and developers have finished their own games multiple times, so take their slowest times and add 20% or so for a “time to beat” guideline. A person who plays games for a living should be ok with that. Also, since the developers also should know their games inside out, they should provide that info to the journalists writing completion guides, but maybe that’s already a practice idk.

 

[BrawlMan]

Finished Act 1! Before doing that, I got the Long Bow, and got the Heavenly Strike move. This game just keep getting better and better. A problem I did notice with the combat is that certain enemies and bosses do that God of War 4 thing, where they will slide towards you even though the attack has a short range. Sucker Punch, you need to fix that. Otherwise, still having fun. I will play more later on the weekend.

 

[happyninja42]

Finished Act 1! Before doing that,, and got the Heavenly Strike move.

Ooooh, that ability was so much fun. That's when I started truly having some badass moments with the open combat. I remember one time, I attacked a camp,, at night, and it was storming (because i made it rain damnit with my Flute Powers!!), and did a standoff at the front gates. I'd upgraded the Standoff to the max 3, and took them out, then proceeded to start assaulting the rest. Breaking their guards, and finishing them off with a Heavenly Strike. The combat ended with that slow motion it does at the end of the sequence of hostiles, just as lightning struck, so I had this really awesome shot of my guy, sword out in a bloody arc to the side, the bodies of his enemies around him, triumphant in the heart of a storm. Then he flicked his blade clean, and sheathed his sword. It was just SO fucking cool. It was shit like that that made me love the game. When I'm seriously debating whether I want to go rogue, or go loud, you've done your loud combat really well. Because my default in just about everything is "go rogue."

 

[CriticalGaming]

Welp, Yahtzee doesn't like the game. He does not exactly hate it, and come to see to the positives, but he feels it is yet "another open world" game. Which to me is disingenuous at best. We all noticed the similarity to Assassins Creed, but I consider this game a combination of Assassin's Creed and Sony's answer Breath of the Wild. Surprised he never mentioned how relaxing the horse riding can be. Yahtzee also sounds like he's having kind of a small nervous breakdown. I get it dude, there is a lot of crap out in gaming, but don't get too cynical. Yeah yeah, I know it's Yahtzee, but sometimes he can be too cynical for his own good.

Yahtzee's whole thing is to be cynical. Even in games he really really likes, he focuses mostly on the flaws because the flaws are easier to make fun of and more important to talk about. Saying, "The game is good" isn't that great of a review after all and certainly not entertaining.

It's funny because a lot of his opinions echoed what I've already said in this thread. The open world aspect of this game is generic and weak. This game is earning praise because people really like samurai's and it is pretty. For some people that's clearly enough, the fantasy of being a samurai and running around to kill shit or pray at shit is enough to keep them happy.

I didn't really like the game. It's a giant 5/10 for me. I would give this game the biggest possible "it's okay" I can.

 

[BrawlMan]

Yahtzee's whole thing is to be cynical

I know, I just don't care. Kinda why I stopped watching his vids unless it's a game I am curious or did not expect him to review. For example. I mever expected him to review Streets of Rage 4. Just because something is cynical does not make it always humorous, good, or smarter.

Saying, "The game is good" isn't that great of a review after all and certainly not entertaining.

Debatable. Nothing wrong with game is good once in a blue moon.

The open world aspect of this game is generic and weak. This game is earning praise because people really like samurai's and it is pretty. For some people that's clearly enough, the fantasy of being a samurai and running around to kill shit or pray at shit is enough to keep them happy.

Here's the thing, I rarely ever touch open world games anymore, but I've had more fun in Ghost than any GTA/clone, Watch Dogs, AssCreed, or Far Cry. The game may not do too much new, but exploring is actually fun and makes it work. What helps is that fast travel is actually fast! The loading take less than 3-4 seconds when doing it. The combat definitely needs a lock-on among other things, but when you get it working most of the time, it clicks. It's just nice looking at nature in-between all of the side quests, main quests, and liberation. Colors and lightining are S+ for me. Being in generic modern NY/LA/Miami/whatever gets old after doing it for the 1000th time.

I didn't really like the game. It's a giant 5/10 for me. I would give this game the biggest possible "it's okay" I can.

Even though I just got in Act 2, the game is going to be either a 7 or 8 for me.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Finished Act 1! Before doing that, I got the Long Bow, and got the Heavenly Strike move. This game just keep getting better and better. A problem I did notice with the combat is that certain enemies and bosses do that God of War 4 thing, where they will slide towards you even though the attack has a short range. Sucker Punch, you need to fix that. Otherwise, still having fun. I will play more later on the weekend.

I remember an EA presentation for NBA Live at I think 2006 E3 for PS3 where they demo’d the player footing being actual footing, and not the Cupid shuffle slide shit.

We’re two generations on now. All developers, no matter the genre, should have solid traversal mechanics as a top priority.

 

[sXeth]

Yeah that archery sensei is where I do have a bit of a headscratch with Ghost's honor system. I mean, he's a samurai, but the archery tactics he teaches you, seem very sneaky to me. So it seems contradictory. But it's not just him, multiple characters comment on whether or not you fight honorably. I suspect, in that example with the archery sensei, that the fact that you engaged stealth mode AT ALL, is what triggers that. If you had just walked in, openly and did a Standoff and fought them directly, my theory is the dialogue would be different. That's what I plan to test on my second playthrough, by avoiding stealth entirely, other than where the game forces it. And even then I'm going to try and bypass it. Like during the assassination tutorial mission, I suspect using arrows might not count as dishonorable. So oneshotting the guards would still prevent anyone from reacting.

Its kind of weird, like they really really really felt obligated to keep some vague inFamous influence, so there's some nods towards that sort of moral choice system. But it mostly boils down to Shimura looking some inane out-of-touch with reality old guard while literally every other person in the game acts kind of rationally.


Jin becomes captain poison and (At least officially) disavowed no matter what, so the pretense of a choice is kind of weird.

 

[happyninja42]

Its kind of weird, like they really really really felt obligated to keep some vague inFamous influence, so there's some nods towards that sort of moral choice system. But it mostly boils down to Shimura looking some inane out-of-touch with reality old guard while literally every other person in the game acts kind of rationally.


Jin becomes captain poison and (At least officially) disavowed no matter what, so the pretense of a choice is kind of weird.

Yeah it's not the best execution of it, based on how the setting is presented between characters, compared to how the mechanics of the game actually play out.

The issue with the "out of touch" part, is that it's basically debating "the ends don't/do justify the means" morality, and using the samurai code of honor as the medium for it. Which in theory is fine, from a narrative standpoint, but the game sort of contradicts itself at several instances where I was like "...wait...that doesn't sound like a very honorable course of action for a samurai..." from some of the people criticizing Jin's actions. Which undercuts the "look how far he's fallen" story for Jin.

Particularly when His uncle, when learning about the poisoning, tries to blame an innocent woman, to save Jin's honor/reputation with the shogun. That's....I mean that's REALLY skeezy behavior, and suggests that Shinimura's honor isn't as pristine as you might think.

Personally, given how it ends, and the overall stance Jin has about things, I don't really have a BIG issue with it. It's some clunky writing that sort of clashes with the game mechanics, but I like where Jin ends up based on the choice I made at the end, especially considering what Young Jin's view on "what honor is". It basically still all fits for me.

Because Jin said very early on, when asked. "What is the meaning of honor to you?" And he reflexively answers "To protect the helpless and the innocent." And his uncle doesn't contradict that as a good interpretation of honor. And his actions in game, DO protect the helpless and the innocent. So at least internally, Jin shouldn't feel he's broken his code of honor. At least I don't think he should feel that way.

 

[Dalisclock]

I can't think of any way to lose my enjoyment in games quicker than playing them being my job.

I also imagine having a small child isn't helping right now, not to mention all the rest of the shit going on in the world.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Here's the thing, I rarely ever touch open world games anymore, but I've had more fun in Ghost than any GTA/clone, Watch Dogs, AssCreed, or Far Cry. The game may not do too much new, but exploring is actually fun and makes it work. What helps is that fast travel is actually fast! The loading take less than 3-4 seconds when doing it. The combat definitely needs a lock-on among other things, but when you get it working most of the time, it clicks. It's just nice looking at nature in-between all of the side quests, main quests, and liberation. Colors and lightining are S+ for me. Being in generic modern NY/LA/Miami/whatever gets old after doing it for the 1000th time.

And that's probably a key factor in your enjoyment.

You don't play many open-world games. But I play a lot of games. So I've been through many open world grinds and I've seen games that do it fantastic and others that do the bare minimum. Ghosts is a game that does the bare minimum imo.

Which again, is probably okay enough for people who don't play many games like this.

I feel like this is a Breath of the Wild situation. I hated BotW, but I can see how people love it. And that's the case with Ghosts, I don't like it, but I can see why other people do.