Weeb revolt over trap censorship

[Dreiko]

Short answer: some people find her character design off putting, start making memes to that effect. Other people think she lookfds childlike, have dumb opinions. Weebs have no chill and decide it's a new front in the culture war. (There's some precursor drama about a blood-drive ad that the vast majority of people who don't follow anime drama YouTube accounts haven't heard off)

It's a "pineapple on pizza" argument about this season's annoying waifu that went stupid.

I covered this in a previous post here but I don't see how her design is off-putting in the slightest, she's got a mix of a tomboy look mixed with a curvy look, pretty unique. And her height is normal for Japanese people.


And hey, the weebs aren't the ones drawing Abby from the last of us punching Uzaki's head off in gory detail, I'm pretty sure the people enjoying their rom-com in peace without initiating an interaction have more chill than the crazy accuser angry people who call people pedos or red cross posters that garner blood donations and save lives sexist or complain about fictional art.



Honestly, the most interesting part about this to me is that I now have an easy example to show what has always been my assertion; that if you make your characters college aged, people who are looking for something to complain because they have to complain about something, will still complain. Might as well not give in to any demands and keep your chars whatever age they are then, complaining won't be affected either way but at least you preserve your original artistic vision.

 

[Worgen]

And hey, the weebs aren't the ones drawing Abby from the last of us punching Uzaki's head off in gory detail, I'm pretty sure the people enjoying their rom-com in peace without initiating an interaction have more chill than the crazy accuser angry people who call people pedos or red cross posters that garner blood donations and save lives sexist or complain about fictional art.

Is that like when there would be pony threads and assholes would start posting pony gore pics to try and counter it?

 

[Dreiko]

Is that like when there would be pony threads and assholes would start posting pony gore pics to try and counter it?

Yeah something like that. Only with added self insert fantasy involved cause it's not just anyone doing the gore but Abby specifically. It's like they really don't understand that a char who punches people's heads off is not a better portrayal of women than a helpful cute busty chick who likes to hang out.

Thankfully some talented artist edited it where the punch bounces harmlessly off her boob while making a "pomf" sound effect lol.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Yeah something like that. Only with added self insert fantasy involved cause it's not just anyone doing the gore but Abby specifically. It's like they really don't understand that a char who punches people's heads off is not a better portrayal of women than a helpful cute busty chick who likes to hang out.

Thankfully some talented artist edited it where the punch bounces harmlessly off her boob while making a "pomf" sound effect lol.

???

 

[Houseman]

It's homophobic at best, because the main character doesn't want to be viewed as gay because he is sexually attracted to someone who identifies as male and also has a penis.

I don't want to be viewed as something I'm not, regardless of what it is. That's not a bad thing, and it's ridiculous to call it -phobic.
I'm not Indian, and I don't want to be viewed as Indian. I'm not racist.
I'm not a woman and I don't want to be viewed as a woman. I'm not sexist.
I'm not queer and I don't want to be viewed as queer. I'm not LGBTQ-phobic.

But I don't believe that trap has anything to do with transgender women raping males, but rather it's trolling people by tricking them into being sexually aroused by a man.

THANK YOU!

Ok, so let me ask you a question, why would David Duke would make such a joke if he isn't an anime fan?

I never said he wasn't.

Furthermore the bit about encouraging violence towards trans people came from his follower's response to the post, it's not an invention that was the genuine reaction people had to it.

So if it has no trans phobic meaning behind it at all, how come that's what the tweet communicated to people?

His followers, on the other hand, are most likely not anime fans, but rather, are hateful idiots.

Hey, I got a question for you, is BLM a hate group and a terrorist organization, and is saying "Black Lives Matter" hate speech because of examples on twitter from people saying "kill white people" or promoting violence while using the BLM hashtag?

That would be ridiculous, right? You're doing the exact same thing. You're taking a few examples from idiots on twitter and saying "whoops, I guess it's hate speech now. Let's all tell the 100,000 people who use the word that they need to stop because I found 5 or 6 guys on twitter who promote violence while using the word!"

A few idiots on Twitter DO NOT and ARE NOT CAPABLE OF redefining a word. You are giving them entirely too much credit and power, which is exactly what they want, by the way.

You're helping them create hate speech instead of ignoring them like they should be ignored. You are spreading their gospel. You personally.

So you say, yet it isn't used exclusively for that.

It is by everyone who is using it right.
Here's what you do when someone says 2 + 2 = 5. You correct them.
Here's what you do when someone uses a word wrong. You correct them.

Is it though?

Yes.

if one uses a word and successfully communicates their message, even if the word wasn't originally intended for that isn't that technically a correct use of the word?

No, that's a misunderstanding between fools.

If I manage to trick someone into believing that an object is called a "plumbus", and then I ask them to "hand me that plumbus", and they do, then I haven't used the word correctly. It's a made-up word to describe a made-up thing on a cartoon. All I've done is trick a person into believing that the word means something else. It's not a correct use of the word and it's not a correct understanding of what the word really means. It's just a big lie, through and through.

For a more concrete example, Jason Schreier, ex-Kotaku, once said that the sorceress from Dragon's Crown was "part of a lolicon fantasy". He's using the word "loli" in completely the wrong way to describe something that isn't, to any educated observer, a loli, or part of a lolicon fantasy, no matter how you slice it. He clearly has no idea what the word means, but he used it in a sentence anyway.

And now any ignorant fellow who stumbles across that post and reads it, without knowing that the word meant beforehand, is able to walk confidently away with a wrong understanding of what a "lolicon" is, which, I guess, would be someone who likes unrealistically buxom women.

This isn't "language evolving", it's "the blind leading the blind". It's just a group of people being wrong, together.
And yes, maybe if this group gets big enough, they'll eventually be considered "correct", and a new minority would be the ones considered to be "wrong". At that point, language will have "evolved".

But we're nowhere near that point. All you have is a few random nobodies on Twitter.

I have provided my logic and reasoning on why I believe the word qualifies as a slur, if you wish to argue against it that's fine but I find it ironic that you're using that argument when all you can do is cite what the word means in Knowyourmeme and 4chan

Because 4chan outnumbers your youtube video and your twitter nobodies by a factor of thousands. I have a stadium full of people and you have a a veterinarian's waiting room.

, I'm just saying that you're not just communicating what you wish, unfortunately the term has negative connotations.

The word is communicating exactly what we wish it to communicate, so long as it's being communicated to someone who actually understands what the word means, exactly like how every other word works.

If someone gets offended because they learn vocabulary from KKK members, then that's their own fault.

 

[Houseman]

???

 

[Worgen]

Thankfully some talented artist edited it where the punch bounces harmlessly off her boob while making a "pomf" sound effect lol.

Reminds me of this.

 

[Gordon_4]

Reminds me of this.
View attachment 553

That is a brilliant recreation of the old styles. Like fucking wow!

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It's a "pineapple on pizza" argument that went stupid.

I covered this in a previous post here but I don't see how her design is off-putting in the slightest, she's got a mix of a tomboy look mixed with a curvy look, pretty unique. And her height is normal for Japanese people.

Neat
She's pure anime girl uncanny valley for me

And hey, the weebs aren't the ones drawing Abby from the last of us punching Uzaki's head off in gory detail, I'm pretty sure the people enjoying their rom-com in peace without initiating an interaction have more chill than the crazy accuser angry people who call people pedos or red cross posters that garner blood donations and save lives sexist or complain about fictional art.

Hero Hui, the dude I noticed pushing a lot of the "this is an anime culture war" bullshit, spent a few videos on how bad a Wonder Woman variant cover was and how other artists "fixed" the art before getting hypocritically mad at other people thinking this anime art was bad and "fixing" the art.
It's manufactured controversy akin to thinking the hyperbolic "does pineapple belong on pizza?" arguments ever actually mattered

Honestly, the most interesting part about this to me is that I now have an easy example to show what has always been my assertion; that if you make your characters college aged, people who are looking for something to complain because they have to complain about something, will still complain. Might as well not give in to any demands and keep your chars whatever age they are then, complaining won't be affected either way but at least you preserve your original artistic vision.

Except that said complaints are valid in one instance and invalid in another, because context.
But then, a few teens having bad opinions is not and will never be a cultural conflict. The vast majority of the complaints boil down to "this deliberately annoying anime character is annoying"

 

[Dreiko]

That is a brilliant recreation of the old styles. Like fucking wow!

They didn't call it the golden age for no reason haha.


And yeah, those are some mighty airbags. Should be installed in every car.

 

[Trunkage]

His followers, on the other hand, are most likely not anime fans, but rather, are hateful idiots.

Hey, I got a question for you, is BLM a hate group and a terrorist organization, and is saying "Black Lives Matter" hate speech because of examples on twitter from people saying "kill white people" or promoting violence while using the BLM hashtag?

That would be ridiculous, right? You're doing the exact same thing. You're taking a few examples from idiots on twitter and saying "whoops, I guess it's hate speech now. Let's all tell the 100,000 people who use the word that they need to stop because I found 5 or 6 guys on twitter who promote violence while using the word!"

A few idiots on Twitter DO NOT and ARE NOT CAPABLE OF redefining a word. You are giving them entirely too much credit and power, which is exactly what they want, by the way.

You're helping them create hate speech instead of ignoring them like they should be ignored. You are spreading their gospel. You personally..

1 No one here is blaming anime fans. They didnt cause the problem. Has there been actual attacks on them at all? Other than saying that’s trap is a derogatory term and it shouldn’t be used. Does it spread and demonise the whole group? As far as I’ve seen, they’ve been ‘attacking’ a word. I am fine people criticising words, ideas and ideologies. Not as fine with attacking people.
2. I fully support you taking on anyone who supports ‘kill all whites’. That’s incredibly derogatory and NEEDS to be attacked. That does not belong in any discourse.
3. Much of this is: ‘Well, it didn’t affect me personally, so it doesn’t actually matter.’ 5 or 6 people on Twitter? Please. If it was 5 or 6 it would have been ignored. And then really only caring when it hurts someone you like. We have a term for that.
And, just to be clear, I will fully support you taking on anyone who is using trap term to be derogatory to anime fans.
4. This is All Live Matter all over again. My suggestion: find a different term. Something that hasnt If you want to rehabilitate it, that’s fine. You have to deal with people who have been significantly negatively effected by the term. Blaming the victims is the opposite of what you need to do. Yes, it’s not your fault that they were hurt. Don’t blame them if they don’t like it, it’s not their fault either.
5. Also noting that you desire to change from BLM to ALM in the other thread is you being politically correct. If it’s cool there, it’s cool here.
6. Ignoring trolls helps them win just as much as fighting them. Ignoring them allows them to control the public discourse. They WANT you to ignore it because, if you ignore it, they get to keep going, And they have shut everyone else down. You are spreading their gospel. You personally

 

[Dreiko]

It's a "pineapple on pizza" argument that went stupid.
Neat
She's pure anime girl uncanny valley for me

Hero Hui, the dude I noticed pushing a lot of the "this is an anime culture war" bullshit, spent a few videos on how bad a Wonder Woman variant cover was and how other artists "fixed" the art before getting hypocritically mad at other people thinking this anime art was bad and "fixing" the art.
It's manufactured controversy akin to thinking the hyperbolic "does pineapple belong on pizza?" arguments ever actually mattered

Except that said complaints are valid in one instance and invalid in another, because context.
But then, a few teens having bad opinions is not and will never be a cultural conflict. The vast majority of the complaints boil down to "this deliberately annoying anime character is annoying"

I think to call normal anime style "uncanny valley" is to come into it from a westerner perspective and not get it. So while such perspectives are valid certainly, I find them irrelevant in this intra-community dialogue.


Not sure who this Hui is, I saw the Uzaki thing months ago because I read JP twitter and they had a tv news show about the westerners being triggered.


There's never any context where if you make the short flat cute innocent girl drawn in a modern anime style 19 years old, people who are out to call you a pedo will not call you one. No such context exists.

Also, this is kind of irrelevant, but I wish we showed this understanding to other bad opinions teenagers may have and not make a fuss over them. Ones such harassing feminits who ask for money to make youtube videos, for example.

 

[Houseman]

1 No one here is blaming anime fans. They didnt cause the problem. Has there been actual attacks on them at all? Other than saying that’s trap is a derogatory term and it shouldn’t be used. Does it spread and demonise the whole group? As far as I’ve seen, they’ve been ‘attacking’ a word. I am fine people criticising words, ideas and ideologies. Not as fine with attacking people.

I never said that anyone was blaming or attacking anime fans. I think you misunderstood the context in which "anime fans" was brought up.

2. I fully support you taking on anyone who supports ‘kill all whites’. That’s incredibly derogatory and NEEDS to be attacked. That does not belong in any discourse.

I think you missed the point. I was asking a question. Is it okay for me to declare that BLM is a terrorist organization and that saying the slogan is hate speech, based off a "few bad apples" that use the banner to spread hate and incite racial violence? The answer to that question is "no".

But people are doing the same thing with the word "trap". Kae's only evidence is that a few idiots on twitter who follow a KKK leader used the word "trap" while inciting violence, so therefore, nobody should ever use the word ever again because these twitter nobodies ruined it.

3. Much of this is: ‘Well, it didn’t affect me personally, so it doesn’t actually matter.’ 5 or 6 people on Twitter? Please. If it was 5 or 6 it would have been ignored.

And yet, it wasn't ignored. It was dredged up and used as ammunition by people with ulterior motives.

This is All Live Matter all over again. My suggestion: find a different term.

No, YOU (not you, specifically) should find a different community. If you don't like the word "trap", then stay away from 4chan and stay out of anime subreddits. Don't invade their place and tell them that they need to change.

Ignoring trolls helps them win just as much as fighting them. Ignoring them allows them to control the public discourse.

How can someone even participate in public discourse if everyone is ignoring them? I don't think you fully thought that statement through.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I think to call normal anime style "uncanny valley" is to come into it from a westerner perspective and not get it. So while such perspectives are valid certainly, I find them irrelevant in this intra-community dialogue.

I don't have a problem with most anime styles. I don't even have a problem with most of the characters in this particular anime.
This specific design weirds me the fuck out.

There's never any context where if you make the short flat cute innocent girl drawn in a modern anime style 19 years old, people who are out to call you a pedo will not call you one. No such context exists.

The difference is, they'd be wrong.

Also, this is kind of irrelevant, but I wish we showed this understanding to other bad opinions teenagers may have and not make a fuss over them. Ones such harassing feminits who ask for money to make youtube videos, for example.

Scale matters. Nobody started sending Take death threats, there isn't a raft of grifters creating hours upon hours of monetized YouTube videos calling Take and everybody who likes them pedophiles, there's a distinct lack of bomb threats at their public events, etc, etc, etc

It was some extremely minor drama created *by* minors that weebs got extremely mad at.

EDIT: Anyway, the next ani-troversy is going the be the 16 year old Nagatoro sexually harassing her schoolmate, the anime. I'm fucking psychic.

 

[Dreiko]

I don't have a problem with most anime styles. I don't even have a problem with most of the characters in this particular anime.
This specific design weirds me the fuck out.
The difference is, they'd be wrong.

Scale matters. Nobody started sending Take death threats, there isn't a raft of grifters creating hours upon hours of monetized YouTube videos calling Take and everybody who likes them pedophiles, there's a distinct lack of bomb threats at their public events, etc, etc, etc

It was some extremely minor drama created *by* minors that weebs got extremely mad at.

EDIT: Anyway, the next ani-troversy is going the be the 16 year old Nagatoro sexually harassing her schoolmate, the anime. I'm fucking psychic.

There's never a not-wrong time to tell someone else what age the fictional characters they came up with should be based on your subjective view of their appearance being tied to this or that age and on your subjective view of morality. We don't think reading material with violence and murder will be tied to heightened real world replication of those events, it's the same with other bad things.

And now we're talking. I don't game much about Uzaki but Nagatoro ijiranaide is actually top class material. She's wayyyy too smug to put down haha. Though there's not as much baggage with that one to trigger the puritans, she doesn't look particularly over the top hot, she's just got a tan and a smug face XD.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Hell, minor grevence turned culture war sums up the animemes/trap nonsense perfectly.
"Hey, could y'all not do the extremely one-joke thing, our trans weebs don't like it"
"We will burn this all to the ground, fuck you"

 

[Dreiko]

Hell, minor grevence turned culture war sums up the animemes/trap nonsense perfectly.
"Hey, could y'all not do the extremely one-joke thing, our trans weebs don't like it"
"We will burn this all to the ground, fuck you"

I find it hard to imagine those being weebs.

Being an anime fan is way bigger of an identity and a community group than just being born this gender or sexuality by a matter of chance. I can't really see people choosing that identity over one they actually selected to be a part of because of its actual traits.


I think most people who complained were just random people who like to defend trans people because it makes them feel like they're doing something right. Mainly it was the mods and not the actual trans community members, because they remade a different subreddit which has pretty much the same amount of members anyhow.

They didn't burn anything down, they excised the cancer and kept on being happy with the members of their actual community in charge of it.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I find it hard to imagine those being weebs.

Being an anime fan is way bigger of an identity and a community group than just being born this gender or sexuality by a matter of chance. I can't really see people choosing that identity over one they actually selected to be a part of because of its actual traits.


I think most people who complained were just random people who like to defend trans people because it makes them feel like they're doing something right. Mainly it was the mods and not the actual trans community members, because they remade a different subreddit which has pretty much the same amount of members anyhow.

They didn't burn anything down, they excised the cancer and kept on being happy with the members of their actual community in charge of it.

Yeah, you find it so hard being that kind of weeb you straight up deny they exist.
Which is kinda the problem.
Then they made a different subreddit and...never left the original subreddit. Because just like Men Going Their Own Way, they never fucking leave

 

[Dreiko]

Yeah, you find it so hard being that kind of weeb you straight up deny they exist.
Which is kinda the problem.
Then they made a different subreddit and...never left the original subreddit. Because just like Men Going Their Own Way, they never fucking leave

Sorry, not grasping what you mean exactly here (completely honest). Are you saying that some weebs are ideologues that consider belonging in groups entirely decided by arbitrary traits they happened to possess as more important than belonging in ones they chose to associate with out of passion and love? And that they find it hard being that way so they don't openly state their opinions?

Well, sorry, but I find such a feeling as a deficit of those weebs and I would love to support them to keep denying that irrational feeling in their hearts until they mature past it. I find it a weakness, a flaw of their character, something to fix, not something to let fester. I believe they do see this, too, which is why they don't give in and act as though they don't feel this way.

I don't support feeding that sort of old tribalist mentality. It's better to focus on what you choose yourself to be about, not what fate chose. This is like a modern atheist/agnostic argument I'm making, where the god-figure, your fate, is your group memberships at birth. We will be all better if we move past it. And if you choose to be about your race or sex or what have you, well, I get to call you a boring and hollow person I think.




As for the latter bit of your post, I think the fundamental problem with the men going their own way thing is that they're still defining themselves in relation to women. Specifically; their choice not to date them any more.

I find it ironic. I don't consider myself a "fava bean adversary" because I don't like fava beans, I don't let that aspect of myself define me.


These people, in an immense lack of self-reflection, are STILL giving women the power to be a core part of how they define themselves, all the while claiming to not care for them any more. They spend way too much time being into these sorts of issues as well.


I think if someone doesn't care, they just focus on other things entirely, they don't spend their free time telling the people they supposedly don't care about how much they don't care and trying to rub it in.

At least incels are more honest, they put the "involuntary" bit in, implying they'd love to get some if it was possible.

 

[Kae]

His followers, on the other hand, are most likely not anime fans, but rather, are hateful idiots.

Hey, I got a question for you, is BLM a hate group and a terrorist organization, and is saying "Black Lives Matter" hate speech because of examples on twitter from people saying "kill white people" or promoting violence while using the BLM hashtag?

That would be ridiculous, right? You're doing the exact same thing. You're taking a few examples from idiots on twitter and saying "whoops, I guess it's hate speech now. Let's all tell the 100,000 people who use the word that they need to stop because I found 5 or 6 guys on twitter who promote violence while using the word!"

A few idiots on Twitter DO NOT and ARE NOT CAPABLE OF redefining a word. You are giving them entirely too much credit and power, which is exactly what they want, by the way.

You're helping them create hate speech instead of ignoring them like they should be ignored. You are spreading their gospel. You personally.

Yet again you fail to understand language, this is about what was communicated, think about it clearly if the word isn't actually hate speech, how is it that bigots can communicate hate with it by simply saying it without adding any other context?
Whether you like it or not the word is now that, by removing it from common use it makes it easier to spot the bigots.

It is by everyone who is using it right.
Here's what you do when someone says 2 + 2 = 5. You correct them.
Here's what you do when someone uses a word wrong. You correct them.

Linguistics isn't Mathematics, I recommend you take a linguistics course because you have fundamentally misunderstood how language works, in language there is no objective truth like in Mathematics, there's only the communication of ideas, a word can only be defined temporarily and any idea that can successfully be communicated by the word is technically a correct use of the word, that's why dictionaries have to be updated constantly and mostly serve the purpose of being used in arguments by pedants like you that pretend to have authority over the meaning of words even though it's fundamentally impossible to do so, in the future if someone finds this conversation it's likely to be incomprehensible, I learned this by trying to read the ancient Spanish version of Don Quijote De La Mancha, that thing is basically another language.

No, that's a misunderstanding between fools.

If I manage to trick someone into believing that an object is called a "plumbus", and then I ask them to "hand me that plumbus", and they do, then I haven't used the word correctly. It's a made-up word to describe a made-up thing on a cartoon. All I've done is trick a person into believing that the word means something else. It's not a correct use of the word and it's not a correct understanding of what the word really means. It's just a big lie, through and through.

All words are made up Houseman, and we're constantly making up new words, again you fundamentally misunderstand linguistics, if those 2 people can successfully communicate that the object is a "Plumbus" then that's a new hyper local way to call the object and if they spread it it's not unlike how different towns that share a language call the same object different things, or use the same word for different things, this is simply how language works it doesn't matter what the etymology of the word is, it only matters what it means, for a great example of why you're wrong you're welcome to think about the word we're discussing, I tire of repeating this argument, honestly Houseman I'm a high school dropout and a moron, this shouldn't be impossible for you to understand.

For a more concrete example, Jason Schreier, ex-Kotaku, once said that the sorceress from Dragon's Crown wa[qs "part of a lolicon fantasy". He's using the word "loli" in completely the wrong way to describe something that isn't, to any educated observer, a loli, or part of a lolicon fantasy, no matter how you slice it. He clearly has no idea what the word means, but he used it in a sentence anyway.

And now any ignorant fellow who stumbles across that post and reads it, without knowing that the word meant beforehand, is able to walk confidently away with a wrong understanding of what a "lolicon" is, which, I guess, would be someone who likes unrealistically buxom women.

This isn't "language evolving", it's "the blind leading the blind". It's just a group of people being wrong, together.
And yes, maybe if this group gets big enough, they'll eventually be considered "correct", and a new minority would be the ones considered to be "wrong". At that point, language will have "evolved".

Whether you like it or not, this is simply how language works, in your example however it hasn't become a common widely understood use of the word, again you're argument is based on the premise of fundamentally misunderstanding or pretending to misunderstand since I doubt you're that ignorant, how language works.

But we're nowhere near that point. All you have is a few random nobodies on Twitter.

Because 4chan outnumbers your youtube video and your twitter nobodies by a factor of thousands. I have a stadium full of people and you have a a veterinarian's waiting room.

Again your premise is laughable at best and fundamentally disingenuous of how language works, if people want to continue using it that's fine, but it doesn't change what the word means now.

The word is communicating exactly what we wish it to communicate, so long as it's being communicated to someone who actually understands what the word means, exactly like how every other word works.

If someone gets offended because they learn vocabulary from KKK members, then that's their own fault.

Hmmm... That's such an ignorant statement that I don't feel I should bother even acknowledging it, to be honest I tire of this, you already know what I'm going to say, you don't get to control what words mean, they have basically a life of their own and as much as you want to deny it both bigots and what I'm assuming you'll refer to as snowflakes due to your love of 4chan have already decided that's what it means and due to their actions the change is now irreversible.

Also it's kinda hilarious that you acknowledge that people changing the word have an agenda but you don't seem to entertain the idea that the people trying to keep it have one too, of course that is if we give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're being naive rather than assuming that you have an agenda.