Democrats already proposing austerity before DNC even ends
- Thread starter Eacaraxe
- Start date
USA
Like I stated you underestimate centrist democrat's bad parts, and overstate how bad Trump is.
Let's look at Bill Clinton
He sanctioned Iraqis to literal death
Did the crime bill
Killed Glass-Stegall
Attacked the American Welfare State
And? That is irrelevant to this election. Who is shlling for Bill Clinton here? I haven't seen ANYONE shill for Bill.. Why bring up someone irrelevant at this point? Besides, Trump even makes Bill look good and that is hard to do.
What path forward? Have you not noticed the DCCC and DSCC backing primary challenges in direct violation of their own bylaws against progressive incumbents and threatening to blacklist organizations supportive of progressive candidates? Pelosi stepping into Congressional races to endorse corporate Democrats against progressives? The national party astroturfing whole-ass Senate races to back candidates who promise to support Trump's agenda more than Republicans, against the will and better judgment of state parties?
It ain't progressives blocking progressives right now.
Bill Clinton's DNC speech shows how the Democratic Party has changed
Clinton's brief turn in this year's Democratic National Convention represented his most insignificant role at a convention. But while he might be seen as a bit of an embarrassing uncle by the party's young guns, he framed the argument against Trump as few other politicians can.
www.cnn.com
Like hell it isn't. Progressives are being blocked by ALL Sides, including their own supporters. All you do by not helping them is weaken progressives so the next time it is even worse. It is like people never learn.. it was worse this time than 2016. Keep it up and the few progressives we have now will be ground into the dirt. If they can't even count on their own supporters, who exactly are they supposed to count on?
And this matters as much as when Jimmy Carter speaks or something? It matters as much as Eva Longoria speaking. ( that means it really doesn't in the end)Bill Clinton's DNC speech shows how the Democratic Party has changed
Clinton's brief turn in this year's Democratic National Convention represented his most insignificant role at a convention. But while he might be seen as a bit of an embarrassing uncle by the party's young guns, he framed the argument against Trump as few other politicians can.
We will get blamed regardless of what we do, there could be 99% voter turnout among progressives with 99% voting for Biden, and we still would get blamed for that 1%. So why let the DNC treat us like literal trash when we could leverage our votes.
Would you pushback against a accusation of beating your wife if people said it everyday? Would there be any answer to that would make being a non-voter okay in your eyes?
Perhaps they don't feel like their vote matters in the sense of national elections. I can't actually say my vote even matters. I'm voting the way i will do out of superstition when a rational weighing of my vote.
Put an emphasis on small and i'll probably agree with that yes.
I'm not so sure we can get those canidate up and running by then. It probably wouldn't hurt but with we need counter media apparatus and strong direct action like the more pessimistic are arguing for. Bernie got a lot of buy-in so any new candidate is going to need a leg up.
The only person who could have this not happen again with the current ideological support and ecosystem is a devout black southern.
I'm sure there are progressives like that but they aren't politicians right now. And even then i'm not so sure they can beat the Idpol behind harris. I'm not sure they can't to be clear but a lack of confidence is still a lack of confidence. A left having stronger voice disrupting media narratives would make me better about our hypothetical candidate or is the chosen.
None of ya'll are voting in strong enough numbers to make the DNC give a shit. If biden's that much of an asshole to you feel free to not vote for him but as you are saying...let's be real about the impact of what you're doing. It may not make your responsible for trump winning and weaken progressive power but it wouldn't make them care.
Best you can hope for is that one outlier where Arizona somehow both swing blue and third parties hit 5% and that's a very big if.
Non voters are who get blamed, and they should be. Because not showing up is just as bad as voting against progressives. Why would I care about what the DNC thinks? For me it is about Patients I have seen every day who will die if Trump's current case against the ACA is successful. It is about my brother and his family not becoming homeless. It is only about trying to save as many people as I possibly can in the meantime until we can do better. Progressives don't have a majority, that means we have to fight for every inch we get. The only way to not completely waste our time here is to beg, bribe, borrow and steal to get anything at all done. Doing that in the current political environment is a huge accomplishment in itself. I grab a shovel and dig in when required, not just quit because it is hard.
Well that's rather the entertaining part, isn't it? Progressives are somehow at the same time a tiny minority with no bargaining power, no leverage, and no cause to cater to them, but somehow a large enough voting bloc to somehow consistently cause Democrats to lose while they tilt at windmills trying to siphon votes from a candidate with a 90% in-party approval rating and throwing truckloads of red meat at voter blocs that don't actually exist (and would never vote for them if they did).
Except they do blame progressives. And on multiple policies, we are a majority of the American people.
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Like I said before, it takes everyone else banding together to get enough votes to beat the GOP. Losing the progressive vote is still less votes than losing the conservatives and moderates necessary to flip the swing districts necessary to win. Often the progressive votes are in regions democrats will win regardless, but not entirely.
If the progressives aren't voting or " protest voting" then of course they blame the progressives. EVEN progressives blame progressives non voters. That is a no brainer there.Except they do blame progressives. And on multiple policies, we are a majority of the American people.
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Support for Medicare for All has remained consistently strong over the past two years, according to a new Hill-HarrisX poll.Sixty-nine percent of registered voters in the April 19-20 survey su…
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It Keeps Happening
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www.jacobinmag.com
More Clinton supporters voted for McCain than Bernie supporters voted for Trump. Yet I don't see people attacking them because you liberals have two standards. One for everyone else, and one for progressives.
It isn't about voting FOR Trump, it is about voting 3rd party or abstaining, or actively working against what our progressive candidates ask us to do to help them. like I stated above. " You liberals?" is that supposed to be a compliment? Progressives ARE liberals. silly, so thank you. Of course progressives have two standards. Progressives expect progressives to actually, you know, support progressives so we can get done what we want done. We EXPECT conservatives, far right and moderates to oppose progressives and block our path, we don't expect progressives to do so as well. That is just stupid.It Keeps Happening
We already knew that Hillary Clinton was a hypocrite, but she’s taking it to a whole new level this week.
More Clinton supporters voted for McCain than Bernie supporters voted for Trump. Yet I don't see people attacking them because you liberals have two standards. One for everyone else, and one for progressives.
Biden is not progressive, not by a mile. And I am a social democrat, not a liberal. Neither is Kamala.
No one said they were. We have been through this. We progressives NEED them more than they NEED us ,however, otherwise we have no way to do anything ever. What part of :
The GOP has a majority and EVERYONE ELSE has to band together to beat them don't you understand?
Democrats = Moderates, conservatives and progressives who all disagree on policy.
Republicans= Conservatives and far right who are mostly united.
For progressives to get anything done ever, they have to beg bribe borrow and steal to get votes for individual bills passed.
Nowhere in there does it say that Democratic party leaders will be progressive to get this done. Sure, we would LOVE a progressive for president. It didn't happen, that doesn't mean we can't get progressive bills passed anyhow. We just have to work harder for it. The ONLY way we remove our chances of getting anything progressive passed is if we let the GOP win instead.
( BTW I could care less about being a " democrat"). I am just a progressive regardless of party but understand we NEED democrats to have a chance in hell of changing anything ever. Sort of like Bernie..
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Part of that in terms of what the party Establishment thinks the party is stupid enough to think that comprised incrementalism should be meat enough for us. Not just in the lesser evil sense but in "Convert us into genuine supporters sense". They genuinely believe in that "we care for you crap" they just suck at it.
The rest is due to the inconvenient facts that the third party voters were more than the margin of victory last time. While your individual vote the idea behind shaming is for people who merely lean that way to see the light.
Problem is all the current polls show people don't have enough leanings against and shaming only ends up either preaching to the choir or pissing people who would other associate with them with the post-biden work that needs to be done.
There's no point in being righteous in stomaching or not stomaching supporting the lesser evils at this point. Like lil devils said calls or texts on the internet aren't going to matter. It's what the actual money and people both protecting the voting process and campaigning in the streets are going to do.
In terms of discussion we should keep our heads up both of the possibility that Biden may actually do some progressive things on his own initiative and how he's most likely going to be full of shit on others.
Do recall he was the one who pushed gay marriage after all. Just also recall how big an exception it that was.]
Edit: Also rather than shaming people via an ineffective media landscape (It didn't work in 2016 and the only thing that convinced people now wasn't people blaming them but trump showing his own ass) i ask: "didn't most all the swing state with 3rd party margin have voter suppression issues?" Maybe people regardless of whether or not they're voting joe can work together on that along with changing our voting system? Makes more sense than infighting IMHO.
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