SNIP
Both of you, OUT!SNIP
You can respond to each other with quotes from this thread in the other one. Keep this on Portland.
SNIP
Both of you, OUT!SNIP
No!Both of you, OUT!
You can respond to each other with quotes from this thread in the other one. Keep this on Portland.
Well as this is about the Portland incidentYou’re having so much fun presuming that I’m suffering culture shock at all here given I have been in a riot already and am in no way under some illusions. Watched a guy throw a brick at a store window for Instagram fame. It was a Sprint store so I don’t care, but whatever. If I have a narrative to prop up, it is quite simple, do not bring guns to, or even have a gun at, a protest unless you’re well coordinated with others so nobody winds up fucking dead. This is something I happily apply to “my side” given my stance on the actual fucking subject matter of the thread you keep derailing with terror apologetics (I’m sure you’ll try to make an argument out of disproving that barb but I don’t fucking care).
As for any other shock, yeah, I don’t like seeing people shot in the head. Surprising. Maybe someone so detatched from the human suffering of others as yourself may enjoy such spectacles, but I do not. Watching a person die, let alone two people die, isn’t fun. Doing so to appease your sick demand that I prove their deaths weren’t righteous isn’t any more fun.
Michael Forest Reinoehl, a self-described anti-fascist who said he provided security for Portland racial justice protests, appears to have targeted a participant in a pro-Trump rally, emerging from an alcove of a parking garage before firing two gunshots, one that hit the man’s bear spray can and the other that proved fatal, according to a police affidavit unsealed Friday.
Portland police obtained a warrant Thursday afternoon charging Reinoehl with second-degree murder with a weapon and unlawful use of a weapon. That night, four officers from three different Washington agencies shot at Reinoehl after he walked out of an apartment outside Lacey, Washington, and tried to flee as they moved in to arrest him. Reinoehl was hit multiple times and died at the scene. He had a handgun but Washington investigators said it’s not clear yet whether he fired it.
The livestream in the article seems to show Reinoehl come out and tell the Patriot Prayer members they don't belong here. With them trying to brush it off. The exact following events are unclear as to if the shot hit the bear attack mace came first and then it was fire or if it was fired before with Reinoehl having his gun ready but it does very much see Reinoehl started the confrontation initially and was targeting said Patriot Prayer members.Surveillance video from the nearby Third Avenue parking garage showed Danielson holding a baton in his left hand and the bear spray in his right hand before the shooting, according to police.
Reinoehl is seen hiding in an alcove of the garage and reaching into a pouch or waistband as Danielson and a friend, Chandler Pappas, walk south on Third Avenue.
Yeah he killed them and brought a gun to a protest. That’s all I needed to not like him. That he appears to have been very intentional in his target doesn’t improve matters, and I’m not going to defend him on the basis they were following him, armed, or that they were brandishing weapons at the time. None of these are defenses for shooting a guy.Well as this is about the Portland incident
Michael Reinoehl appeared to target right-wing demonstrator before fatal shooting in Portland, police say
Aaron "Jay" Danielson, the 39-year-old man killed, was carrying a can of bear spray and a metal collapsible baton, police said. A loaded gun was found holstered on his waist, and two magazines of ammunition were found in his cargo pants pocket, police said.www.oregonlive.com
The livestream in the article seems to show Reinoehl come out and tell the Patriot Prayer members they don't belong here. With them trying to brush it off. The exact following events are unclear as to if the shot hit the bear attack mace came first and then it was fire or if it was fired before with Reinoehl having his gun ready but it does very much see Reinoehl started the confrontation initially and was targeting said Patriot Prayer members.
Um the report says he came out behind the guys after they walked past. Not that they were following him.Yeah he killed them and brought a gun to a protest. That’s all I needed to not like him. That he appears to have been very intentional in his target doesn’t improve matters, and I’m not going to defend him on the basis they were following him, armed, or that they were brandishing weapons at the time. None of these are defenses for shooting a guy.
They were following him before he stepped into the garage. He was trying to dip behind them.Um the report says he came out behind the guys after they walked past. Not that they were following him.
If you noticed, my post was explicitly empty of calling out any individual "side". Guilty conscious, much?Or "The Red Hats"
Actually it wasn't as generally Far Right groups are seen as targeting Jewish people.If you noticed, my post was explicitly empty of calling out any individual "side". Guilty conscious, much?
Not what the report I linked says so you got a source on that claim?They were following him before he stepped into the garage. He was trying to dip behind them.
Not off the top of my head, no. It was released more recently, after the cops killed him.Not what the report I linked says so you got a source on that claim?
Not seeing it in any searches.Not off the top of my head, no. It was released more recently, after the cops killed him.
There are few official details about what happened next. At least four members of the task force, which included officers from a variety of local agencies, fired dozens of times at Reinoehl; the U.S. Marshals Service later said he had a handgun, but it wasn’t clear whether he had ever fired it at police. On Thursday, the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office, which is leading the investigation, said that Reinoehl was in possession of a semi-automatic handgun, but that investigators were still trying to determine if he had fired it or pulled it out.
Dinguss said he never saw Reinoehl pull out a gun.
He said he watched as two unmarked police vehicles converged on Reinoehl as he walked to his car, holding his phone and chewing on a piece of candy. The officers never audibly identified themselves and didn’t try to arrest Reinoehl, Dinguss said.
Instead, he said they immediately began firing. When Reinoehl heard the gunfire, he ducked behind his car, which was pinned in by the law enforcement vehicles; he never tried to get inside, Dinguss said, and he never saw him reaching for a weapon. Dinguss said he watched police unleash rapid-fire rounds at Reinoehl, once pausing to shout “Stop!” before resuming their fire.
Dinguss added officers waited “multiple minutes” before rendering medical aid to Reinoehl, who died at the scene from several gunshot wounds.
SO the Minister who witness the shooting is saying the suspect was eating gummy worms and holding a phone when the police shot him?
I've come to believe that the original shooting, where Reinoehl shot someone, probably wasn't self-defense, but that should be left for the courts, not my personal opinion. I do get that the authorities might have suspected him of being in possession of a firearm, but that should result in precautions during the arrest, not rolling up and shooting without announcing themselves.
Before we can even get that far, we need to force all police in the US to wear bodycams and they get fired for turning them off during calls, arrests or deleting the footage. The footage should only be able to be deleted by an outside agency that handles it and that should solve a great deal of the problem. They will be less likely to do things when they know they will be caught and charged for it. We have seen that police constantly lie. We have had them turning on and off body cams to plant evidence. Claim they were off when they were on while they murdered someone. We need to make bodycams mandated for all stops, calls or arrests at this point, and have officers held accountable if they are not.I've come to believe that the original shooting, where Reinoehl shot someone, probably wasn't self-defense, but that should be left for the courts, not my personal opinion. I do get that the authorities might have suspected him of being in possession of a firearm, but that should result in precautions during the arrest, not rolling up and shooting without announcing themselves.
The US really need police reform. Bodycams, dashcams, independent reviewboard with the power to investigate, removal of qualified immunity, an end to no-knock raids, focus on deescalation, and an end to the militarization of police.
We're way past that at this point. Look at this shit in Compton, right on the heels of the discovery of an active white supremacist cell inside the PD itself, at the same time police whistleblowers are being intimidated and receiving death threats. These PD's need to be declared domestic terrorists and the military deployed to deal with them commensurately, end of story. No reform, no peace; neither are possible and to still cleave to that fantasy is utter delusion, especially when these white supremacist gangs are deploying their unions to block oversight and transparency ordinances the municipal governments they nominally serve pass.Bodycams, dashcams, independent reviewboard with the power to investigate, removal of qualified immunity, an end to no-knock raids, focus on deescalation, and an end to the militarization of police.
Is that the guy the feds got?Probably not good that the cops assassinated a guy.
You and I will never reach agreement on this. I don't believe we can have a functioning society without an institution dedicated to policing, albeit the current incarnation is corrupt and in need of reform. Entirely removing the police will necessitate an alternative group and the only ones that would be even semi capable of overseeing such a massive undertaking is the military, and I want the military in charge of policing even less than I do the current incarnations of various US police departments.We're way past that at this point. Look at this shit in Compton, right on the heels of the discovery of an active white supremacist cell inside the PD itself, at the same time police whistleblowers are being intimidated and receiving death threats. These PD's need to be declared domestic terrorists and the military deployed to deal with them commensurately, end of story. No reform, no peace; neither are possible and to still cleave to that fantasy is utter delusion, especially when these white supremacist gangs are deploying their unions to block oversight and transparency ordinances the municipal governments they nominally serve pass.
I agree. The idea that abolishing the police will lead to some delusional " fend fer 'urselves" peace without harassment is just that. It is completely unrealistic. All that would happen without the police working for the people is they would turn into a cartel/gang militia like the Zetas and only answer to themselves. That is exactly what happens when you do not have viable law enforcement answerable to the people. We need reform yes. First we have to get them to wear and turn on their body cameras WHILE we get the reform done. We have't even managed that part yet. We have to have actual penalties for not doing so to make this enforceable and it has to be universal otherwise corrupt departments will still refuse to do so. I agree with everything you stated above. You are spot on with what needs to be done. Not having enforceable federal standards is part of the problem that allows a lot of these departments to essentially just do whatever they want.You and I will never reach agreement on this. I don't believe we can have a functioning society without an institution dedicated to policing, albeit the current incarnation is corrupt and in need of reform. Entirely removing the police will necessitate an alternative group and the only ones that would be even semi capable of overseeing such a massive undertaking is the military, and I want the military in charge of policing even less than I do the current incarnations of various US police departments.
You also get US police murdering people on camera and getting away with it. OTOH, if they are recording themselves, it's not a civilian doing the filming who coincidentally gets locked up for something else and has rat poison in their food for some reason.First we have to get them to wear and turn on their body cameras WHILE we get the reform done. We have't even managed that part yet.