Trump's income taxes published by NYT

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Well he's certainly got a lot of people vehemently hating him willing to believe pictures of kids in small cages were Trump's doing, or he deliberately and rudely overfed koi carp or that he stole a small childs hat and threw it into the crowd...........

I mean I think we all had enough talk about it and it being brought up constantly during the stormy Daniels revelations............ also what happened to all that I thought that was meant to be going somewhere with something big but it just died out................
He tends to argue in a very particular way and doesn't often engage with the argument itself. Not to mention he likes to ask leading questions then seems to have no idea what those are.

I remember that from like 50 scandals ago. Seriously, if republicans actually stood for anything anymore then that would have been a bigger deal than it was but they seem to have all just gotten on the trump train and are riding it till it derails. He found out the magic method to make scandals go away, say you didn't do it, call it fake news, demand loyalty.
 

Mister Mumbler

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I would just like to point out to everyone that we aren't talking about a business man, but the current President of the United States, so it being legal per se is kinda moot when talking about a guy who signs these laws into being in the first place, backed up by a Congress that has made it clear that they follow him on everything (which is itself moot, since he already signed a tax bill into effect lowering his taxes while our lower tax provisions have expiration dates stamped on them).

The most galling thing though? He is funneling tax payer money (that as established he contributes very little to) straight into these failing businesses by constantly going to his resorts and forcing his Secret Service agents to pay for rooms.
 
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Gergar12

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I don't care if he sucks at being a businessman(he does), and it does make him susceptible to bribery legal or otherwise. No one with a billion dollars should be in the US government period. They all have views that antithetical to American democracy and egalitarianism.

I, of course, could point to the greed of Bezos, and Bloomberg, and some mixed record billionaires like Musk, but instead I am going to focus on arguably the best billionaire Bill Gates.

If Bill Gate had his way we would all have to go to charter schools, teachers wouldn't be in unions, and a teacher told me when I was a republican that to save costs some school districts, and by extension, large education corporations would pay teachers minimum wage or even just a low wage like in Oklahoma.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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I would just like to point out to everyone that we aren't talking about a business man, but the current President of the United States, so it being legal per se is kinda moot when talking about a guy who signs these laws into being in the first place, backed up by a Congress that has made it clear that they follow him on everything (which is itself moot, since he already signed a tax bill into effect lowering his taxes while our lower tax provisions have expiration dates stamped on them).

The most galling thing though? He is funneling tax payer money (that as established he contributes very little to) straight into these failing businesses by constantly going to his resorts and forcing his Secret Service agents to pay for rooms.
Yeh but wasn't one of the argument even in 2016 being put out by Trump at one point being to close tax loopholes etc?

Also technically it could depend on where the money is from etc. E.G. in the NYT article itself it points out he gets some tax credits for work on one of his hotels because it counts as a historic building so work on it counts as preservation work.

I'm not saying it's all good but some of the stuff that's helped him avoid some of the taxes seems not awful. I mean it's not him funding Uwe Boll films to avoid tax at least.
 

gorfias

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Then Frie and Barnes should get their money back from whatever fucking college they allegedly graduated from.



1) You find it ridiculous, yet you clearly didn't read the article. Can you at least do that much before criticizing out of hand and relying on bullshit commentary from a couple of hacks? And also acknowledge the fact that Trump's tax returns have been a major topic and hotly pursued material for about five years?

2) I'm not sure what you're hoping to prove with your dick pic analogy, but you're reaching. No one "stole" anything here, and Trump's tax returns and financial dealings are 100% newsworthy.
I've just spent too much time already being inundated with fake news and this sounds like more of it.
I did like this critique: https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterj...mes-trump-tax-story-disappoints/#534dd3ce77d7
 

lil devils x

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He tends to argue in a very particular way and doesn't often engage with the argument itself. Not to mention he likes to ask leading questions then seems to have no idea what those are.

I remember that from like 50 scandals ago. Seriously, if republicans actually stood for anything anymore then that would have been a bigger deal than it was but they seem to have all just gotten on the trump train and are riding it till it derails. He found out the magic method to make scandals go away, say you didn't do it, call it fake news, demand loyalty.
Yup. I read this in comments somewhere and saved it because it was so sadly accurate:

The “billionaire” who hides his tax returns.

The “genius” who hides his college grades.

The “businessman” who bankrupted 3 casinos and lost over $1B in 10 yrs.

The “playboy” who pays for sДх and assaults pageant contestants.

The “Christian” who doesn’t go to church and openly declares he grabs women by the pussy..

The “philanthropist” who defrauds charity.

The “patriot” who dodged the draft and calls vets and soldiers suckers and losers.

The “innocent man” who refuses to testify.

The “President” who takes no responsibility.

The “tough, strong man“ who wears makeup and hairspray but never a mask.

The “deal maker” who has yet to close a deal. and

Trump is a racist POS and any one who votes for him wants to have a racist POS in charge of the USA.


But yet no matter what he does, he is still the golden boy of his supporters. JUST imagine if Obama had done ANYTHING Trump had done and how rabid these same people would be ready to lynch him. It really is insane though how much they actually like someone so vile, gluttonous and repulsive he truly is and the lengths they go to defend him. They have to convince themselves everyone and everything in the world is wrong and lying just to attempt to maintain their own delusion.

He offers you this:
But in reality it is this. Don't look if you are squeamish.
 

Dalisclock

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But yet no matter what he does, he is still the golden boy of his supporters. JUST imagine if Obama had done ANYTHING Trump had done and how rabid these same people would be ready to lynch him. It really is insane though how much they actually like someone so vile, gluttonous and repulsive he truly is and the lengths they go to defend him. They have to convince themselves everyone and everything in the world is wrong and lying just to attempt to maintain their own delusion.
But Obama's Birth Certificate!

Yeah, some of us still remember he is/was one of the loudest voices in the birther movement.

The man complains how unfairy he's treated. Nobody is constantly harassing him to prove he was born in this country or prove he's a "Christian". He's not racist, though, he just sounds like one constantly. :rolleyes:
 

Cheetodust

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Every time this "rich person/company releases tax returns" stuff comes up, everyone always criticises the subject and claims that they should be paying more.

But 99% of the time it's all legal.

These people and companies are smart and just gaming the system in perfectly legal ways.
Abortion is legal and a lot of people think that should change. Just because something is legal doesn't mean you have to think its good or acceptable. Surely you realise that? It's the reason that we get new laws.
 
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Cheetodust

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P.S. Who the fuck are Viva Frie and Robert Barnes, and why are you investing anything in what they say on this matter when they can't get one of the most basic facts right?
They were the first people to come up when he went looking for people who agreed with the position he already held. You know how research works. You believe a thing then you find people who also believe that thing and you present that as evidence of the thing.
 
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lil devils x

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Reilly's analysis strikes me as a much more initiated take on my first impression: There are some really disturbing revelations in there (over 400 millions in personal debt that are all coming due in the coming five years and the fact that Trump has liquidated most of his stocks and bonds portfolio) but the journalists in their eagerness to make this a story that the average reader will find riveting has focused on the wrong things. Reilly's critique that the data should have been processed by journalists with actual knowledge of the field of economics for companies and high net worth individuals is also totally valid.

That being said, it is still a massive revelation and even if some of the details are wrong or they've misrepresented what their expert counsel told them that doesn't change the overall picture of a man who's in very dire financial straits. Which should be alarming for everyone who considers voting for him, as the USA might end up with a President who goes bankrupt or, as a worst case scenario, gets recruited by a foreign intelligence agency in exchange for a large pile of cash to bail Trump out of his debts. The picture of Trump as a massive security risk to national security is what you should take away from this.
I am going to guess NYT intentionally left much out of this first story on this. This is the goose that laid the golden egg, and due to how newspapers have been struggling so severely in recent years, they are going to sell as many copies as they can when they get ahold of something like this, and I don't really blame them for doing so. Releasing it like this everyone has to defer to them to get the information. Just dumping the source material or showing their hand all at once, people no longer have to go to the NYT to see it, as it would be plastered all over every network. I am betting they are dropping this one, wait for trump's response, drop some more. Sell more copies.. When it stops being as profitable, they will likely then release the information itself once they have also done what they need to do to protect the person who provided it to them. You can bet they know exactly what they are doing making Trump scramble and sweat and sending in his hounds to try and find out how they got it, and they are just going to milk it for what they can get in the meantime.
 

Agema

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Who got the tax documents to the NYT? Did they violate any laws?
Almost certainly.

But there is a long-established principle that it is not a crime for journalists to report information that was gathered illegally and handed to them in matters of public interest, not least because it is vital to be able to expose wrongdoing and hold power to account.

Then Frie and Barnes should get their money back from whatever fucking college they allegedly graduated from.
Frieheit is a Canadian lawyer, so whilst that makes him better informed than you and me, he's still out of his jurisdiction when he wants to analyse American law.

My reading of Frieheit is that he is either personally right-libertarian or conspiracy theorist, or he's realised that those people are his core audience and is telling them what thay want to hear.

One way or another, all these YouTube lawyers are just different flavours of entertainment more than they are analysis.

Tell me something: if the someone steals a dick pic of Trumps, can the Times publish it?
That depends. If Trump's penis becomes a matter of sufficiently legitimate public interest, yes. And let's bear in mind it did, because - as an example of how quickly this administration collapsed into the gutter - Stormy Daniels claimed an affair and that his penis was sort of like a mushroom. And this wasn't just cheating on his wife (because as we know, Trump cheats everyone) but an aspect of improper payments for hush money, and that the president was attempting to officially lie about it to the public from the presidential podium, which is perhaps a more serious issue of public trust. Thus evidence that Daniels was not lying has some significance. Having said that, I doubt the NYT would publish pics even so, because it's unnecessarily crude and petty. They would more likely just report in text that they had seen them.

Otherwise, generally, publishing pictures of dick pics would not be reasonable as it bears no relevance to public interest.
 

Agema

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That being said, it is still a massive revelation and even if some of the details are wrong or they've misrepresented what their expert counsel told them that doesn't change the overall picture of a man who's in very dire financial straits. Which should be alarming for everyone who considers voting for him, as the USA might end up with a President who goes bankrupt or, as a worst case scenario, gets recruited by a foreign intelligence agency in exchange for a large pile of cash to bail Trump out of his debts. The picture of Trump as a massive security risk to national security is what you should take away from this.
Dire financial straits, maybe, maybe not. If we assume Trump has $3 billion in assets and $500 million in debts, he can obviously sell a lot of his assets (particularly the loss-making ones) and remain staggeringly rich. It does however speak to the fact that his reputation as a businessman is grossly overstated.

Nevertheless, I totally agree that the financial chaos of his personal businesses is very relevant and does pose a significant risk in terms of national interest, especially given the increase in business dealings in certain regimes that he has been conspicuously friendly with.
 
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Elijin

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People ask how in spite of the constant pile up of negatives, how can trump supporters continue to stand by him?

We've discussed the extreme side of the 'trigger the libs' crowd, but it's not just that. We have an actual example of the other major factor in these forums. Supporters who literally don't read negative articles because they have decided it's all fake news. Trump created a rallying cry which lets his supporters blatantly ignore negative reporting if they choose to.
 

Kwak

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Supporters who literally don't read negative articles because they have decided it's all fake news. Trump created a rallying cry which lets his supporters blatantly ignore negative reporting if they choose to.
Un-ironically co-opted from an actual phenomenon.
But yet no matter what he does, he is still the golden boy of his supporters. JUST imagine if Obama had done ANYTHING Trump had done and how rabid these same people would be ready to lynch him. It really is insane though how much they actually like someone so vile, gluttonous and repulsive he truly is and the lengths they go to defend him.
It's now just
"He's not perfect, but neither are any of us."
 
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gorfias

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Reilly's analysis strikes me as a much more initiated take on my first impression: There are some really disturbing revelations in there (over 400 millions in personal debt that are all coming due in the coming five years and the fact that Trump has liquidated most of his stocks and bonds portfolio) but the journalists in their eagerness to make this a story that the average reader will find riveting has focused on the wrong things. Reilly's critique that the data should have been processed by journalists with actual knowledge of the field of economics for companies and high net worth individuals is also totally valid.

That being said, it is still a massive revelation and even if some of the details are wrong or they've misrepresented what their expert counsel told them that doesn't change the overall picture of a man who's in very dire financial straits. Which should be alarming for everyone who considers voting for him, as the USA might end up with a President who goes bankrupt or, as a worst case scenario, gets recruited by a foreign intelligence agency in exchange for a large pile of cash to bail Trump out of his debts. The picture of Trump as a massive security risk to national security is what you should take away from this.
Dire financial straits, maybe, maybe not. If we assume Trump has $3 billion in assets and $500 million in debts, he can obviously sell a lot of his assets (particularly the loss-making ones) and remain staggeringly rich. It does however speak to the fact that his reputation as a businessman is grossly overstated.

Nevertheless, I totally agree that the financial chaos of his personal businesses is very relevant and does pose a significant risk in terms of national interest, especially given the increase in business dealings in certain regimes that he has been conspicuously friendly with.
Forbes now puts his worth at about $2.5 billion. $500 is a hunk but I'm sure he can deal with it.

Biden: " When Biden ended his term as vice president in January 2017, he filed another financial disclosure form, listing assets and liabilities worth somewhere between negative $897,000 and positive $489,000. But over the next 23 months, the Bidens earned more than $15 million " https://www.forbes.com/sites/michel...idate-built-a-9-million-fortune/#5a97b031104d So Biden became very liquid after his term. I'm a lot more concerned about Biden's finances than Trump's.
 

Silvanus

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Biden: " When Biden ended his term as vice president in January 2017, he filed another financial disclosure form, listing assets and liabilities worth somewhere between negative $897,000 and positive $489,000. But over the next 23 months, the Bidens earned more than $15 million " https://www.forbes.com/sites/michel...idate-built-a-9-million-fortune/#5a97b031104d So Biden became very liquid after his term. I'm a lot more concerned about Biden's finances than Trump's.
Why? What in there strikes you as more concerning than grotesque tax-evasion?

Particularly since the entire amount Biden made during that period is less than a tenth of the amount Trump should have paid in tax, but didn't.
 

ralfy

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In relation to this, search online and you'll find many articles from 2011 to 2019 referring to top U.S. corporations paying little or no taxes thanks to deductions, coupons, offshore revenues, and other legal ways made possible through provisions from the Bush, Obama, and Trump administrations.

Also, there's one article from 2010 that refers to a government study which shows that the ave. effective tax rate of people who earned $40k to $50k that time was around 1.7 pct, and for the next tax bracket around 4.2 pct.
 
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gorfias

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Why? What in there strikes you as more concerning than grotesque tax-evasion?

Particularly since the entire amount Biden made during that period is less than a tenth of the amount Trump should have paid in tax, but didn't.
Some in this thread appear to be saying that we have to worry about a guy worth $2.5-3 billion is a national risk as he owes as much as $500 million. Compared to a guy worth around $15 million? Who appears to use his power and privilege to sell us out as fast and as often as he can, sending his unemployable son around the world collecting billions for friends, family and people they owe favors to in deals Trump has been telling us for 20 years or more, are a complete rip off of the US?

And this is while our legacy media is in a deep slumber, as long their people are in power. But an outsider? If Trump cured cancer, the NYT would report he'd put medical doctors out of work.