Biden v. Trump Election Mega Thread

[Dwarvenhobble]

Who was that poll by? Crazy Jack the local weirdo with his magic pen, based on the voices he was hearing?

Probably MSNBC

?What on earth...?
Heavens - what century are you in? Pollsters don't wander round the streets with a clipboard. There are phones, and the internet. Professional polling companies have complex analytical techniques where they assess the validity of their samples against state demographics and previous elections, and so on.

To quote my late Aunt

If some-one phones up asking who I was voting for I'd just say I was voting for the first name they said on the phone. Didn't matter if I was planning to vote for them or not I just couldn't be bothered with dealing with them on the phone for longer than I had too.

Polls are so often wrong because they work on the assumption of honestly. It's a downfall of a number of "public response survey" too where people with certain inclinations find out about them and share them round like minded people to push the numbers up unless it's literally special invite only stuff. Professional Polling companies can and sometimes do outsource to others who may not be as good.

Lets just say the number of polls that have been released that saw different results as of late it puts into doubt most of them.

Even without people like my Aunt you then have cases where if you have a CNN own poll and some-one comes up to you as a hypothetical Trump supporter and says "CNN here asking about your voting intentions" do you think moderate Trump supporters / people leaning Trump slightly will go "Yeh I'm voting for Trump" given CNN has previously implied / threatened to release the names of people for making Pro Trump memes online or saying things deemed to have been created by Russians. Who was the news agency that turned up outside that old woman's house in the USA to confront her with claims of spreading Russian propaganda before?

No they'll claim to be undecided or maybe even pick Biden cause they don't want CNN naming and interviewing them on TV or whatever or having those details on record.

If he'd then done something to support that statement, maybe, but he very specifically doesn't -- and it would have been so easy to do.

What he's actually done is go on TV and say 'Proud Boys [white supremacists] stand back and standby'. Standby! Apparently that means 'readiness for duty or immediate deployment.' Rather than condemn the white supremacist militia as prompted, he told them to prepare for deployment!

Again

The Proud Boys (This picture is from the ADL no less)


Guess they must just be a load of self hating People of Colour or something?

It's like you didn't read the bit where I pointed out how bad the state polls are for Trump, too.

Again see above.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Ha! You might not be able to condemn white supremacists but most people can. Knots I tell ya!

I already said you can do.

Sorry if it wasn't clear that me saying that implied yes I do condemn it.

BTW that's the 15th time I've condemned it on these forums.
See how this goes?
Doesn't matter how much a person condemns it, suddenly the claim is they've never done so. In your case admittedly you probably didn't know but that's the thing it's reliance on ignorance. Trump has condemned it before. It doesn't matter because people are determined to believe he is one

 

[Baffle]

I already said you can do.

Sorry if it wasn't clear that me saying that implied yes I do condemn it.

BTW that's the 15th time I've condemned it on these forums.
See how this goes?
Doesn't matter how much a person condemns it, suddenly the claim is they've never done so. In your case admittedly you probably didn't know but that's the thing it's reliance on ignorance. Trump has condemned it before. It doesn't matter because people are determined to believe he is one

Right, so you can condemn it. Why didn't he?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Right, so you can condemn it. Why didn't he?

He has before

He said he would condemn it

He asked if there were any specific groups the moderator wanted condemned and the moderator couldn't come up with any.

I mean in Trumps inelegant want he probably thought the matter was settled and he didn't have to hammer the point home to make sure the people in the back got that him saying he would condemn it was him actually condemning it via implication that he would do so.

 

[Baffle]

He has before

He said he would condemn it

He asked if there were any specific groups the moderator wanted condemned and the moderator couldn't come up with any.

I mean in Trumps inelegant want he probably thought the matter was settled and he didn't have to hammer the point home to make sure the people in the back got that him saying he would condemn it was him actually condemning it via implication that he would do so.

Yeah, we've just got a video of him doing the opposite though. I mean, that's hamfisted at best.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Welp that didn't take long for Joe Biden to put his foot in his mouth after the debate




Yep that's Biden's campiagn trying to claim Kyle Rittenhouse is a White Supremacist.

And just like that the question of how far the label is being stretched can be brought up.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Yeah, we've just got a video of him doing the opposite though. I mean, that's hamfisted at best.

no he said he would condemn it so it's kind of implied he does.

If I say I'd condemn people punching you in the face does that mean I want to punch you in the face?

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Ah, found another one.

Pffff.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Yep that's Biden's campiagn trying to claim Kyle Rittenhouse is a White Supremacist.

And this is putting his foot in his mouth... why?

 

[tstorm823]

Do you support white supremacists is not a gotcha question. That's like when Sarah Pallin said asking her what she reads was an unfair question - not if you read its not.

The question was not "do you support white supremacists?" The question was "are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia group and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we’ve seen in Portland?" This question is dishonest framing on two levels:

First, it's phrased in such a way where the correct answer is apparently insufficient. "Are you willing to?" "Yes." "Well, folks, he didn't do it."
Second, it's combining multiple concepts together in an unnecessary way that makes the question actually less meaningful. "Will you condemn white supremacists and militia groups." Well, those aren't the same thing, or even necessarily related. There are definitely militia groups that aren't white supremacists. To give an extreme example, you could ask the question "are you willing to condemn human trafficking and tacos?" Answering "no" wouldn't necessarily mean you won't condemn human trafficking, how'd the poor tacos get involved here? Chris Wallace phrased the question in a way that ties support for any militia group directly to support for white supremacy.

Trump actually effectively side-stepped the trap. He declined to blanket condemn that broad phrasing and asked for a specific group to condemn, and he responded with largely the same phrasing as the question, "stand down". And even with all of that, what's the headline?

 

[Baffle]

no he said he would condemn it so it's kind of implied he does.

If I say I'd condemn people punching you in the face does that mean I want to punch you in the face?

If you said you would condemn punching me in the face (but didn't actually do so), then subsequently told someone who'd previously punched me in the face several times to 'stand back and standby', I would certainly suspect you of not really wanting me to not be punched in the face.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

And this is putting his foot in his mouth... why?

Because... he isn't a white supremacist? Of all the things we looked over from that night, not a single thing indicated anything about white nationalism.

 

[Baffle]

First, it's phrased in such a way where the correct answer is apparently insufficient. "Are you willing to?" "Yes." "Well, folks, he didn't do it."

But when they say 'Go on then' he doesn't do it!

To give an extreme example, you could ask the question "are you willing to condemn human trafficking and tacos?" Answering "no" wouldn't necessarily mean you won't condemn human trafficking, how'd the poor tacos get involved here? Chris Wallace phrased the question in a way that ties support for any militia group directly to support for white supremacy.

Are you telling me that Trump is so addled he isn't able to say 'Those two things aren't the same'? Are participants to this debate only allowed to say 'yes' or 'no' with no explanatory comments?! And I thought the COVID rules were hard to follow!

Edit: Yeah, I fucked my quotes.

Fucking twice! Three times!

 

[Worgen]

I've linked their web page. Again: they are multi-racial.

Do you have anything more than their word on their web page? Cause North Korea calls itself a democracy, but you can only vote for great leader, so is it really a democracy?

Totally unrelated song.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Because... he isn't a white supremacist? Of all the things we looked over from that night, not a single thing indicated anything about white nationalism.

An "aspiring cop" with a blue lives matter phone case and who shows up to counter-protest BLM armed is a white supremacist.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

And this is putting his foot in his mouth... why?

Kid who works as a lifeguard
Kid who were there to help people
Kid who is on video helping people and offering first aid earlier in the night.
Kid who was attacked and acted in self defence.
0 evidence he's a white supremacist and the claim is based on him being white (ignore the fact 2 of the 3 people he shot were white)

Not the best look really to be spreading what is fake news claims or imply acting in self defence makes you a white supremacist.
ESPECIALLY when you're a presidential hopeful........ ESPECIALLY when it's an ongoing court case. I mean this might be grounds alone to get the entire case thrown out for potential biasing the possible jury.

If you said you would condemn punching me in the face (but didn't actually do so), then subsequently told someone who'd previously punched me in the face several times to 'stand back and standby', I would certainly suspect you of not really wanting me to not be punched in the face.

Again

The people (according to the ADL) you're claiming are White Supremacists

Do you have anything more than their word on their web page? Cause North Korea calls itself a democracy, but you can only vote for great leader, so is it really a democracy?

Totally unrelated song.

Looks at the picture from the ADL I posted........... Does that count as evidence or are they all self hating POC in that picture?

 

[gorfias]

Do you have anything more than their word on their web page? Cause North Korea calls itself a democracy, but you can only vote for great leader, so is it really a democracy?

Totally unrelated song.

I've seen Gavin Mcinnes speak. He can be a jerk (disrespects video gamers) but seemed genuine that he would want a movement to say they think there is much to be proud of in Western culture, regardless of race.

I do have to wonder if something similar to what happened to the Tea Party is having an impact on Proud Boys (that real bigots are ruining this organization just as the Tea Party that was a libertarian minded movement turned into radical Christian Fundamentalists as it got taken over).

And in a totally unrelated song:

 

[tstorm823]

Are you telling me that Trump is so addled he isn't able to say 'Those two things aren't the same'? Are participants to this debate only allowed to say 'yes' or 'no' with no explanatory comments?! And I thought the COVID rules were hard to follow!

If Trump says "those two things aren't the same", he would even moreso be criticized for refusing to condemn. "Yes, I'm willing to do that, what specifically would you like me to condemn" is way, way more agreeable a response than "those aren't the same thing, this is FAKE NEWS". There was never a response to that question that wouldn't have been turned into a headline against him. Had he responded "I condemn..." and used to exact phrase Chris Wallace said, the immediate followup would have been "well what about those Covid protestors with guns that you expressed support for" and now the headline is "Trump contradicts himself on white supremacists".

Edit: typed the wrong Chris at first.

 

[MrCalavera]

I do have to wonder if something similar to what happened to the Tea Party is having an impact on Proud Boys (that real bigots are ruining this organization just as the Tea Party that was a libertarian minded movement turned into radical Christian Fundamentalists as it got taken over).

Wouldn't be the first time libertarians got "overrun" by trad-con fundies and racists. Won't be the last one.

 

[Buyetyen]

I've seen Gavin Mcinnes speak. He can be a jerk (disrespects video gamers) but seemed genuine that he would want a movement to say they think there is much to be proud of in Western culture, regardless of race.

So he's a confrontational, nationalist piece of shit. He is more living proof that white people cannot be the master race. Also he looks like a constipated schnauzer. It has nothing to do with anything, I just wanted it off my chest.

I do have to wonder if something similar to what happened to the Tea Party is having an impact on Proud Boys (that real bigots are ruining this organization just as the Tea Party that was a libertarian minded movement turned into radical Christian Fundamentalists as it got taken over).

The Tea Party was a Frankenstein's monster created by the donor class that promptly managed to escape their control. The Proud Boys were always a bunch of brownshirts in a fresh coat of paint.

An "aspiring cop" with a blue lives matter phone case and who shows up to counter-protest BLM armed is a white supremacist.

Funny how when it comes to white supremacists, white people get antsy about calling a spade a spade.