How long until this Pandemic ceases?

[CriticalGaming]

It's a very sensible rule but only partly useful when the desease can be transmitted while asymptomatic... I am fairly certain many infected others not knowing they were "sick".

This is likely the biggest problem. Because those people are not getting sick and therefore have no reason to go get tested unless forced to do so.

Not to mention the people who merely thought they had the flu, since symptoms are much the same in most people's cases.

Which brings me to another question. How many Covid cases aren't counted? A lot most likely, which also means that's a lot more people who had it, never knew, got better and further reduces the actual death rates of the virus, and reduces the % of people who need care or hospitalization.

The news says Hospitals are overburdened. But I took my grandfather to the hospital last Wednesday, in one of the most famous hospitals in California, and they had only 2 people in the emergency room, and a shitload of availably beds. Nurses were high fiving each other and the local security. I mean if this is so taxing and so serious, they don't seem to be following basic distancing rules. I sat in emergency for 4 hours waiting to hear news on what was going to happen to my grandfather and not once did a single staff member come out to clean or disinfect the waiting room.

If hospitals are currently taxed to the brink with Covid patients, where is the footage? Where is the evidence? Have any of you gone to the hospital and seen chaos? Taxed nurses?

I'm not saying it hasn't been the case before, early on, when everyone was freaking out about the virus, and probably going to the hospital when they really didn't need to, but is that still happened in places? I mean Los Angeles, where I live, has the highest numbers right now of cases. The Governor just locked my state down AGAIN (but not his wineries because those are "essential", and he still goes to parties because he is a fucking prick), and yet the hospital does seem all that tired from this.

Somethings aren't adding up. That's all. Again the news loves to just shit out numbers, but numbers don't exactly mean much if you have no idea what they mean. If some county reports 10,000 new cases, they don't tell you how many are asymptomatic, how many are serious, or any of that. It's just a big number to tell people because big numbers scare people. But if you said 10,000 new cases, with 75 serious cases, then people wouldn't worry as much, and that's what they want. The news doesn't make money by reporting good news, or even telling accurate bad news. They make money by hyping up the bad to be worse than it is.

Can't. Need to pay rent or be homeless.

Ha. Ha. Very cheeky. But come on, staying home for a week cuz you sick is very different than having your business and job shut down for months and months on end.

 

[Iron]

This is likely the biggest problem. Because those people are not getting sick and therefore have no reason to go get tested unless forced to do so.

Not to mention the people who merely thought they had the flu, since symptoms are much the same in most people's cases.

Which brings me to another question. How many Covid cases aren't counted? A lot most likely, which also means that's a lot more people who had it, never knew, got better and further reduces the actual death rates of the virus, and reduces the % of people who need care or hospitalization.

The news says Hospitals are overburdened. But I took my grandfather to the hospital last Wednesday, in one of the most famous hospitals in California, and they had only 2 people in the emergency room, and a shitload of availably beds. Nurses were high fiving each other and the local security. I mean if this is so taxing and so serious, they don't seem to be following basic distancing rules. I sat in emergency for 4 hours waiting to hear news on what was going to happen to my grandfather and not once did a single staff member come out to clean or disinfect the waiting room.

If hospitals are currently taxed to the brink with Covid patients, where is the footage? Where is the evidence? Have any of you gone to the hospital and seen chaos? Taxed nurses?

I'm not saying it hasn't been the case before, early on, when everyone was freaking out about the virus, and probably going to the hospital when they really didn't need to, but is that still happened in places? I mean Los Angeles, where I live, has the highest numbers right now of cases. The Governor just locked my state down AGAIN (but not his wineries because those are "essential", and he still goes to parties because he is a fucking prick), and yet the hospital does seem all that tired from this.

Somethings aren't adding up. That's all. Again the news loves to just shit out numbers, but numbers don't exactly mean much if you have no idea what they mean. If some county reports 10,000 new cases, they don't tell you how many are asymptomatic, how many are serious, or any of that. It's just a big number to tell people because big numbers scare people. But if you said 10,000 new cases, with 75 serious cases, then people wouldn't worry as much, and that's what they want. The news doesn't make money by reporting good news, or even telling accurate bad news. They make money by hyping up the bad to be worse than it is.



Ha. Ha. Very cheeky. But come on, staying home for a week cuz you sick is very different than having your business and job shut down for months and months on end.

You can only believe what's on the screen, from verified news sources and fact checkers, not your own anecdotal personal experience or your own logical thinking. Your opinions haven't been vetted and verified by the non-partisan fact-checking websiteTM and therefore are illegal, conspiracy theory fake-news.

20 points had been deducted from your federal corona-relief personal account. Your access to twitter had been suspended until further notice.

 

[stroopwafel]

"Long covid" is - tentatively - estimated at 1 in 10, and unsurprisingly much higher in hospitalised patients.

That's kind of observer bias, medical care also service much more hypochondriacs than those who stay at home. It's anecdotal but GPs and other medical personnel also report there are many covid cases at home which are more severe than those in hospitals. 'Long covid' could just as well be pyschosomatic when there are are no structural or organic abnormalities in scans or blood tests. Other than self-reporting there is zero proof this even exists.

 

[deleted20220709]

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[stroopwafel]

WHO and CDC disagrees with you. Long-term effects of Covid has been found in several scientific studies at this point and while some people who feel they suffer from long-term Covid are psychosomatic, the majority of them are not.

Self-reporting of vague complaints how is that proof? People who recovered from severe covid with damaged lungs ofcourse don't fall under this category. But again, this is the same risk group as those with the highest mortality rate.

 

[Iron]

Self-reporting of vague complaints how is that proof? People who recovered from severe covid with damaged lungs ofcourse don't fall under this category. But again, this is the same risk group as those with the highest mortality rate.

It's like IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome).

 

[stroopwafel]

It's like IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome).

Just like chronic fatique syndrome that could be a post-infectious syndrome, but there is no conclusive evidence that this is the case. It could also be a combination of a small problem aggrevated by stress and other psychological issues. Many IBS patients benefited from cognitive behavioral therapy for example or low dose anti-depressants since most serotonergic receptors are in the gut. Again, further evidence how the gut is engaged in a constant feedback loop with the brain. Even autism might have to do with gut microbes.

 

[Iron]

Just like chronic fatique syndrome that could be a post-infectious syndrome, but there is no conclusive evidence that this is the case. It could also be a combination of a small problem aggrevated by stress and other psychological issues. Many IBS patients benefited from cognitive behavioral therapy for example or low dose anti-depressants since most serotonergic receptor are in the gut. Again, further evidence how the gut is engaged in a constant feedback loop with the brain. Even autism might have to do with gut microbes.

This kind of stuff makes you take holistic approaches to medicine a little seriously.

 

[stroopwafel]

This kind of stuff makes you take holistic approaches to medicine a little seriously.

If there are no structural or organic abnormalities you're basically left with a diagnosis of exclusion. And the only treatment for that is holistic. Whatever brings relief.

 

[deleted20220709]

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[Thaluikhain]

When the WHO and CDC both agree that long term Covid is a thing, you as a layman would do well to show some humility before lumping it together with CFS/ME.

Surely CFS/ME is also a thing, or have I missed something?

 

[Iron]

humility

I'm losing my shit right now this can't be your real opinion

 

[CriticalGaming]

Self-reporting of vague complaints how is that proof? People who recovered from severe covid with damaged lungs ofcourse don't fall under this category. But again, this is the same risk group as those with the highest mortality rate.

There also might be some link between underlying conditions and long term covid effects that we don't know about yet. It is quite possible that someone with a neurological condition, degraded lung condition, etc that might not have manifested itself to the person in normal life is accelerated into manifestation due to covid. Not necessarily caused by covid itself, but triggered and lingers due to the covid.

Because these long term effects do not seem very widespread in patients, and there are fr more people who get it, and recover without issues. There are sure outlying cases, of people who suffer from lingered issues and still recover, and then I guess a few people who now suffer from a new issue that seems to be lasting.

Your access to twitter had been suspended until further notice.

Ah shit......how will I get notified when the PS5 is back in stock without it?

 

[stroopwafel]

Did you read what symptoms people complained about? Some are subjective like fatigue, confusion and nausea but others are absolutely observable like coughing, fever, diarrhea and dyspnea. Just because you don't like it, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. When the WHO and CDC both agree that long term Covid is a thing, you as a layman would do well to show some humility before lumping it together with CFS/ME.

Me as a layman? The WHO themselves credits Reddit and Facebook as a source in that report. Not to mention the WHO made itself pretty unreliable to begin with by being a political tool of China when the pandemic broke out.

IBS also has observable symptoms, as diarrhea is hard to fake (or ignore for that matter). What's contested with IBS is the genesis of the symptoms (though growing consensus suggests it is more often then not stress related and less often diet related), not the symptoms themselves. People with long term Covid are not in that category as the genesis of the symptoms is known and what's being investigated is how frequently it occurs and whether it has any further long term complications like SARS and MERS had.

That is just pure speculation, as there is no way to distinguish which symptoms are caused by 'long term' covid or which symptoms preceded covid. People might be in poor health to begin with, so many symptoms are already present. Or people with no health issues recover from covid, report still having symptoms but every test shows up negative. Then you have the stress and the constant fear mongering in the media. No surprise some people become hyper aware of every feeling in their body, real or imagined.

 

[Agema]

'Long covid' could just as well be pyschosomatic when there are are no structural or organic abnormalities in scans or blood tests.

I can't help but think of all the conditions once dismissed as "psychosomatic" which turned out to be very real, dismissed for decades just because no-one had yet identified what was going wrong to test for it or had a drug to medicate it away.

 

[Iron]

I can't help but think of all the conditions once dismissed as "psychosomatic" which turned out to be very real, dismissed for decades just because no-one had yet identified what was going wrong to test for it or had a drug to medicate it away.

I always thought the English were so gloomy because of the weather, but now I realize that there is a chance we can find a vaccine for them.

 

[deleted20220709]

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[stroopwafel]

In April you were the one who kept talking up Covid-19 as the new Black Plague and being super lethal, now you act as if you knew all along that it wasn't as lethal as initially thought. That alone should suggest that you don't know as much about medical issues as you would like to think.

What? That absolutely is not true. You can search my entire post history on this or the previous board and find absolutely nothing of the sort.

Also as a medical expert like yourself I assumed there was always a difference between self-reporting and actual diagnosis through, idk, measurements, blood tests, biopsies, imaging etc.

 

[Iron]

It is, but it is still controversial even in healthcare circles and it has the problems of both having an absolutely unknown cause (not helped by most CFS/ME interest groups refusing to accept any other theory then either the discredited ME-theory or some sort of complication from a viral infection) and a set of main symptoms that are all subjective. In general I think CFS/ME would be a fair bit less controversial if the interest groups weren't so adamant in their refusal to even consider psychological causes or circumstances and their insistence on not accepting any of the studies that show that cognitive behavioral therapy has a modest if apparent effect on the symptoms.



So you chose the Trump strategy here of just calling it fake news. Got it.



I love how you just make these objections up, when standard phrasing for questions like these is to ask for symptoms that you did not suffer from prior to the disease in question. Besides, have you never had a cough, runny nose or soar throat during a cold or flu that just wouldn't give up even weeks after you were feeling well? What makes you think people with Covid-19 can't suffer that? And why are you so invested in disproving Long Term Covid, when it has been embraced as an actual, if uncommon, diagnosis by the international medical community?

Once again, as a layman you should probably show some humility. It also amuses me that the roles between you and me are reversed now. In April you were the one who kept talking up Covid-19 as the new Black Plague and being super lethal, now you act as if you knew all along that it wasn't as lethal as initially thought. That alone should suggest that you don't know as much about medical issues as you would like to think.

Candidate to Lead the W.H.O. Accused of Covering Up Epidemics (Published 2017)

As Ethiopia’s health minister, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus ignored cholera outbreaks, a global health expert and adviser to a rival candidate charges.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/05/18/ethiopias-candidate-for-the-world-health-organization-doesnt-like-mentioning-a-certain-disease/

Sometimes it's too easy, really.
I don't implicitly believe anything anymore

 

[stroopwafel]

So you chose the Trump strategy here of just calling it fake news. Got it.

The WHO report literally cites Reddit and Facebook as a source.

WHO and CDC disagrees with you. Long-term effects of Covid has been found in several scientific studies at this point and while some people who feel they suffer from long-term Covid are psychosomatic, the majority of them are not.

EFFECTS ON THE HEART Top tweets referencing a Scientific American review of studies on possible long-term effects of COVID-19 on the heart generated 104 000 social media engagements (of which 60% on Reddit, 35% on Facebook, 5% on Twitter). • CHILDREN A science and society article in Undark which reported on prolonged COVID-19 illness in children had 2000 social media engagements.

Like, how is this even remotely reliable 'evidence' for a disease/syndrome whatever for which no official diagnosis even exist?