Hello, Elliot Page
- Thread starter ObsidianJones
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That's rather the problem. Were this a decade ago, it would be a different story, but we're reaching at which performativity and pageantry is becoming...tiresome, to say the least. Or to put it another way, highlighting and prolonging the abnormality of non-heterosexuality and non-cisgendered statuses forestalls the onset of normality. I want to be clear, that's not only the result of actors/actresses and talent agencies, that's also down to tabloid/yellow press, paparazzi, and the oft-salacious nature of discourse that surrounds Hollywood -- and celebrity of any type, for that matter.
That said, as I pointed out earlier trans masculinity is a woefully erased and sidelined identity among even trans rights activists, or at least that's been my experience and perspective, from someone who has been part of and moved in those circles. Especially when examining the intricacies and conflicts between post-third wave feminists and trans rights activists. The belief trans masculine persons are "gender traitors", a term often employed by trans men, among post-third wave feminists isn't exactly uncommon, nor is it as some would claim limited to TERF's.
If Page comes out triggers a wave of introspection among the groups I just mentioned, all the better. But I wholeheartedly doubt it will.
Well as I said, it's not just Page. It's more of a norm than one would think, if one starts looking at when these high-profile outings happen. Contrast Page with, say, Kristen Stewart, who came out publicly having worked indie projects for years and continued working indie projects for another two, and when directly asked if she was concerned her coming out would impact her career, essentially said fuck it.
"Known"... but in what way?
Use of anabolic steroids was rare in the general populace until the 1980s, and you're right that there was a growing general concern throughout the decade - but this was more the stuff of rumour, anecdote, and media suggestion. I'm sure the 1988 Olympics raised attention considerably, but 1988 also happens to be the year when the first major studies emerged quantifying anabolic steroid use (e.g. Buckley et al.). Needless to say, the findings were alarming.
Research has consistently shown use is primarily "cosmetic" rather than for competitive performance, so citing amateur athletes doesn't really cut it either. Ironically, lots of these superbly toned people are quite unfit in many ways. Athletes prominent in media contribute to male body image issues that you refer to, but it goes way beyond them, too. Particularly consider the 1980s as the decade of Stallone, Schwartzenegger and the big muscle aesthetic.
Part of why so much of the mainstream talk about trans people and rights for them bugs me so much is because of what Eacaraxe is talking about, glam and pageantry.
Need I remind people that it wasn't that long ago that autism was in this same position with lots of high profile people talking about how they're "a little be autistic" around the time shows like Monk and The Big Bang Theory were popular? So many people in high places saying they're part of some minority group when the risk for being part of that group has never been smaller. Sounds a bit shallow.
Need I remind people that it wasn't that long ago that autism was in this same position with lots of high profile people talking about how they're "a little be autistic" around the time shows like Monk and The Big Bang Theory were popular? So many people in high places saying they're part of some minority group when the risk for being part of that group has never been smaller. Sounds a bit shallow.
Did Elliot Page hold a glamorous pageant? I thought it was just a post on the internet. Was he supposed to just not say anything?
More people coming out as trans now that being trans is slowly starting to lose its stigma isn't shallow, it's trans people finally feeling just a tad safer from major social (and even physical) repercussions. And who are these "many people in high places" that have actually come out as trans, because so far I can only count Page.
So would you argue that it is better for people to be afraid (usually of stigmatisation) so that they can "prove" their commitment?
Caitlyn Jenner used to be "the famous trans person", with Laverne Cox as second, and nobody really as third.
Brendon Scholl, perhaps, but most likely you don't know who that is, as they are only really famous for having J-Lo as an aunt.
So that's maybe 2 and a half famous people.
No. It just seems odd that "smaller" people work hard at pushing for these things despite not having a lot of benefits and only after they've used all this effort do these Hollywood types come in support of these people or show themselves to be one of them.
What, that Elliott (and others) haven't come out as trans until other people have put a lot of work into making it safe to do so? If you squint your brain it looks a little like they are getting the rewards after others have endured the risks, but I'd not blame someone for keeping their head down whilst it wasn't a great time to come out.
Elliot Page is 33 years old and does not own a time machine.
Scientific studies alone do not raise the level of public outcry sufficient to push through sweeping legislation over a 12-24 month time span, damn near globally among Western countries. Let alone in the US, and during a decade when Congress set in stone its trend of "what do the scientists and researchers say? Let's just do the complete opposite of that."
And yet they are far and away the single largest identifiable group among anabolic steroid users. Counting weightlifting as a sport...
...which you seem to not. Pray tell, how was Schwarzenegger "discovered"? Or, for that matter, Carl Weathers, Dolph Lundgren, Jesse Ventura, or any number of bigger-name '80s action stars? What exactly were they doing before their film appearances, or did they spontaneously manifest from the luminiferous aether in a film studio one day, ready to start shooting?
It's funny you mention Stallone, because contrary to public perception today he wasn't actually much of an action star during the '80s. He was in the Rambo movies and Cobra, but that was it; most of his '80s roles were drama. He didn't really become "an action star" in the sense of predominantly or exclusively appearing in action films until the absolute ass end of the '80s, and in the '90s. And, Stallone didn't play much into the "big muscle aesthetic" until Rocky 4 and Rambo 2, both '85 releases.
Page was already part and in support of the LGBTQ community for years though. And he was barely part of the Hollywood glitz machine anymore either. And even if he was, you don't think coming out would be career suicide, even today? Coming out as gay already got rid of his appeal as the hot, new starlette years ago. Imagine Scarlett Johansson coming out as a trans man, or even just Chris Evans coming out as gay... They'd pretty much be done in Hollywood, even with the progress of the last few years.
So yeah, seeing Page coming out as trans as 'just some Hollywood celebrity casually enjoying the fruits of the labor of others' is a very blunt way of looking at it.
In practice, most people (famous or not) take advantage of societal liberalisation fought for by just a small few.
The history of famous people who choose to take a stand is actually not a happy one. Most of the pioneering sportsmen who came out as gay were metaphorically crucified, and abandoned to it by their teams and sport. It's not an exaggeration to say it ended the careers of many of them. Hollywood, whatever its liberal image, is in fact a place where individuals are put under enormous pressure to conform to certain images and ideals as demanded by the corporations that run it, under threat of severe career damage and risk of huge adverse media attention. They might be rich and famous, but they're also allowed to be afraid of what coming out means for them, like anyone else.
To be fair, it's mostly just Hollywood trying to clean up its own messes. A lot of the specific social standards Hollywood now fights against were largely pushed by Hollywood before flipping positions, there's almost certainly some guilt for the actions of predecessors going on there.