Your video game hot take(s) thread

[Hawki]

Resistance and Killzone I find more interesting in world and design. I was never a big Halo fan to start. I played the games, but never owned them. Killzone, your fighting space Nazi and are on colorful worlds.

You're probably the first person I've come across who's called Killzone "colourful." 0_0

The first game is crap, and I agree, but the sequels are fun. I played 2 & 3 at a friends and later my brother's when he had a PS3.

Oh, I wouldn't call KZ1 crap. It's definitely janky, but there's a kind of charm to the jank - least for me. Also, out of all the Killzone games I've played (KZ1, Liberation, 2), it's got the best plot of the three, and having watched playthroughs of KZ3/SF, it still ranks highly plotwise. Also, there's a kind of 'essence' in KZ1 and Liberation that the later games abandoned. In part because of the shift in aesthetic, in part due to the nature of storytelling (four oddballs in KZ1 to more uniform soldiers in KZ2), in part due to the less down to earth feel. A lot of this can be explained in-universe, but there's a charm to KZ1 that isn't present in other games, even if KZ2 is still the best installment I've played.

Both franchises knew when to end, other than Killzone: Shadowfall. I can ignore Shadowfall though. I know Sony is more focused on their 3rd person games, but there is no reason not to do this.

I don't know if KZ3 would have been the best place to end the series. Even if you ignore the sequel bait, even if we'd be left asking "so about that Hera chick..." the ending in of itself struck me as...I dunno. Like, either we're meant to be happy that billions of people just died (and probably not, given Sev's words, and that we know that not all helghast are onboard with Visari), or not, and if the latter, now what? If the arc of Killzone 1>3 is WWII in space, then there's the inconveinent fact that even if Nazi Germany was left devastated, the Allies didn't kill every German to win the war.

Shadow Fall though, while leaving things open, does strike me as a better alternative if we had to end the series somewhere. Its final shot (literally and figuratively) suggests that humans and helghast are locked in a perpetual cycle of conflict that neither can escape from. So as cynical as that is, I'd take it over KZ3 ending the series.

Microsoft clearly does not know what to do with the series anymore. Should have ended at 3 like Resistance.

I'd have been happy for it to end at Reach - Halo 3 ended the trilogy, Reach book-ended the series. Or it did...

That said, even if I'm in a minority, Halo 5 did chart a new direction the series could take, but 343's backed away from it since then.

 

[BrawlMan]

You're probably the first person I've come across who's called Killzone "colourful." 0_0

In comparison in to most real is brown games.

Oh, I wouldn't call KZ1 crap. It's definitely janky, but there's a kind of charm to the jank - least for me. Also, out of all the Killzone games I've played (KZ1, Liberation, 2), it's got the best plot of the three, and having watched playthroughs of KZ3/SF, it still ranks highly plotwise. Also, there's a kind of 'essence' in KZ1 and Liberation that the later games abandoned. In part because of the shift in aesthetic, in part due to the nature of storytelling (four oddballs in KZ1 to more uniform soldiers in KZ2), in part due to the less down to earth feel. A lot of this can be explained in-universe, but there's a charm to KZ1 that isn't present in other games, even if KZ2 is still the best installment I've played.

That's fine and dandy, but KZ1 is something you can never get me to play and complete even if you tried paying me.

I don't know if KZ3 would have been the best place to end the series. Even if you ignore the sequel bait, even if we'd be left asking "so about that Hera chick..." the ending in of itself struck me as...I dunno. Like, either we're meant to be happy that billions of people just died (and probably not, given Sev's words, and that we know that not all helghast are onboard with Visari), or not, and if the latter, now what? If the arc of Killzone 1>3 is WWII in space, then there's the inconveinent fact that even if Nazi Germany was left devastated, the Allies didn't kill every German to win the war.

Shadow Fall though, while leaving things open, does strike me as a better alternative if we had to end the series somewhere. Its final shot (literally and figuratively) suggests that humans and helghast are locked in a perpetual cycle of conflict that neither can escape from. So as cynical as that is, I'd take it over KZ3 ending the series.

Shadow Fall was not bad, but it was pretty meh for me.

I'd have been happy for it to end at Reach - Halo 3 ended the trilogy, Reach book-ended the series. Or it did...

Reach I had no problems with since its a prequel. They could have ended at either of those.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

What's with the current obsession with HDR? I honestly think it looks terrible and I never enable it.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

A common criticism of The Outer Worlds that I remember seeing regularly is that it goes too far with "capitalism is bad bro" angle and people just don't wanna believe it. But, like, if you check the history of capitalism and its many adventures, especially around colonialism and other unregulated environments, it really is that bad! All the game did was add a retro sci-fi flavour. I'd even go so far as to say it doesn't touch upon the uglier depths to be found, remaining fairly sugar-coated to not depress the player away from their fun times.

 

[blockhead77]

Brawlhalla's only pro is that it is free

 

[Dalisclock]

A common criticism of The Outer Worlds that I remember seeing regularly is that it goes too far with "capitalism is bad bro" angle and people just don't wanna believe it. But, like, if you check the history of capitalism and its many adventures, especially around colonialism and other unregulated environments, it really is that bad! All the game did was add a retro sci-fi flavour. I'd even go so far as to say it doesn't touch upon the uglier depths to be found, remaining fairly sugar-coated to not depress the player away from their fun times.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've heard an argument more along the lines of "Outer Worlds is as subtle as a brick to the face about it's Anti-Capitalist message" which undermines it because it comes across as completely OOT. Not having played it myself I can't judge it, but I could see how being ridiculous could ruin the satire.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

What's with the current obsession with HDR? I honestly think it looks terrible and I never enable it.

I wouldn’t know myself. Still one of the plebs that doesn’t have a display worthy to be graced (or cursed) with its presence.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

A common criticism of The Outer Worlds that I remember seeing regularly is that it goes too far with "capitalism is bad bro" angle and people just don't wanna believe it. But, like, if you check the history of capitalism and its many adventures, especially around colonialism and other unregulated environments, it really is that bad! All the game did was add a retro sci-fi flavour. I'd even go so far as to say it doesn't touch upon the uglier depths to be found, remaining fairly sugar-coated to not depress the player away from their fun times.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've heard an argument more along the lines of "Outer Worlds is as subtle as a brick to the face about it's Anti-Capitalist message" which undermines it because it comes across as completely OOT. Not having played it myself I can't judge it, but I could see how being ridiculous could ruin the satire.

OOT

What does OOT stand for?

acronyms.thefreedictionary.com

I...you lost me. Guessing out of touch?

 

[Kyrian007]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've heard an argument more along the lines of "Outer Worlds is as subtle as a brick to the face about it's Anti-Capitalist message" which undermines it because it comes across as completely OOT. Not having played it myself I can't judge it, but I could see how being ridiculous could ruin the satire.

I didn't have a problem with its message. There are potential dystopic visions of every political or economic system out there, and subtlety is just a personal preference. Its about as subtle as a Paul Verhoeven movie (i.e. not very) and some people like those (and dimmer folks even take those at face value.)

My hot take problem with Outer Worlds, was lack of replayability. I loved it, and after finishing it went to make a different character with a different play style... and lost interest and never got far. I can jump back into any of the Fallout games and enjoy making a new character... but for some reason not Outer Worlds. And I don't really know why. I didn't get the DLC though, maybe I should try again.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've heard an argument more along the lines of "Outer Worlds is as subtle as a brick to the face about it's Anti-Capitalist message" which undermines it because it comes across as completely OOT. Not having played it myself I can't judge it, but I could see how being ridiculous could ruin the satire.

Well, I don't really see it meant as a single message for idiots as much as it is just a focused spine to explore the various side-effects and tentacles that grow from it (in a softer, humourous way). I mean, like any well-made films exploring racism isn't usually met with "I get it...racism bad" from respectable sources, because that's just meant as a spine to explore the characters caught up in the "racism bad" and how they find ways to cope through severe adversity. It's just a groundwork, often from a message that most empathetic people already have an understanding of.

 

[Dalisclock]

OOT

What does OOT stand for?

acronyms.thefreedictionary.com

I...you lost me. Guessing out of touch?

Over the Top. Which I used the wrong acronym for, which is my bad.

 

[happyninja42]

A common criticism of The Outer Worlds that I remember seeing regularly is that it goes too far with "capitalism is bad bro" angle and people just don't wanna believe it. But, like, if you check the history of capitalism and its many adventures, especially around colonialism and other unregulated environments, it really is that bad! All the game did was add a retro sci-fi flavour. I'd even go so far as to say it doesn't touch upon the uglier depths to be found, remaining fairly sugar-coated to not depress the player away from their fun times.

My issue with it, was that it was a one trick pony when it came to the plot. I got the idea, by the FIRST planet, that "corporations bad" they never went anywhere with it narratively. It was just, comically ludicrous examples of corporations being corporations, so much so that I felt I was in a scifi world built by Monty Python. Where you have people standing in the middle of a firefight, yelling about not filling out the proper forms for their weapons discharge certification that day. That level of idiocy, is only tolerable (for me at least) in small doses. But an entire, multi-planet system, ALL of which is operating at that level of idiocy? Sorry but I've got better things to do with my time than sit through another repetition of the same plot point.

I did find it really amusing, that a lot of the control elements, social and legal that were utilized, were examples of religious indoctrination, more than just capitalism itself.

Other than that though, it was just lazy, repetitive writing. So I shut the game off.

 

[happyninja42]

Over the Top. Which I used the wrong acronym for, which is my bad.

 

[Neuromancer]

A common criticism of The Outer Worlds that I remember seeing regularly is that it goes too far with "capitalism is bad bro" angle and people just don't wanna believe it. But, like, if you check the history of capitalism and its many adventures, especially around colonialism and other unregulated environments, it really is that bad! All the game did was add a retro sci-fi flavour. I'd even go so far as to say it doesn't touch upon the uglier depths to be found, remaining fairly sugar-coated to not depress the player away from their fun times.

The problem with Outer Worlds isn't that it goes too far, it's that it is as deep as a puddle. It's a parody and a caricature without any bite or edge to it. The exaggerated venture capitalism of the setting is purely aesthetic and superficial. In many ways, Outer Worlds is to Fallout what Tropico 3+ is to Tropico. The original Tropico was rather dark and used its humour as a vehicle to highlight totalitarianism and imperialist intervention and the general misery in banana republics. Later tropicos are like "Haha yeah you're a dictator! Have fun!". A lot of the original's elements are still there, but the whackiness of the tone and the lack of any real examination of the subjects showcased within the game have completely stripped the games of any sort of critical element, leaving a shallow parody. Fallout, at least the black isle and Obsidian Fallout, also had this parody element to them with cold war nostalgia, but beyond the jokes you could see commentary on imperialism and, especially in New Vegas, of government systems and nostalgia ("who are you, who know not your history?"). Outer Worlds, meanwhile, has nothing to really say besides the joke.

Perhaps ironically, Outer Worlds has more in common narratively with Fallout 3 & 4 than any of the Fallouts that its creators worked on.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

My issue with it, was that it was a one trick pony when it came to the plot. I got the idea, by the FIRST planet, that "corporations bad" they never went anywhere with it narratively. It was just, comically ludicrous examples of corporations being corporations, so much so that I felt I was in a scifi world built by Monty Python. Where you have people standing in the middle of a firefight, yelling about not filling out the proper forms for their weapons discharge certification that day. That level of idiocy, is only tolerable (for me at least) in small doses. But an entire, multi-planet system, ALL of which is operating at that level of idiocy? Sorry but I've got better things to do with my time than sit through another repetition of the same plot point.

I did find it really amusing, that a lot of the control elements, social and legal that were utilized, were examples of religious indoctrination, more than just capitalism itself.

Other than that though, it was just lazy, repetitive writing. So I shut the game off.

Thing is, life for people caught up in company towns and stuff like the east india trading company never had the privilege of subtlety to feel better about. Reality is often blunt, vicious and ugly whether it makes for entertainment or not.

Company Towns | Themes | Slavery by Another Name | PBS

Find out what life was like in company towns created to house workers in remote locations where an individual company owned all the buildings and businesses.

www.pbs.org

Space Settlements Could End Up Being Company Towns

You load 16 tons of moon rock, what do you get?

slate.com

Britain robbed India of $45 trillion & Thence 1.8 billion Indians died from deprivation | MR Online

Eminent Indian economist Professor Utsa Patnaik (Jawaharlal Nehru University) has estimated that Britain robbed India of $45 trillion between 1765 and 1938, however it is estimated that if India had remained free with 24% of world GDP as in 1700 then its cumulative GDP would have been $232...

mronline.org

The Bengal Famine: How the British engineered the worst genocide in human history for profit

It was worse than the Jews Hitler decimated during WW2. And it went on for centuries. This Independence Day a look back on the Bengal Famine, the worst crime committed by the British during their stint as our rulers.

yourstory.com

 

[happyninja42]

Thing is, life for people caught up in company towns and stuff like the east india trading company never had the privilege of subtlety to feel better about. Reality is often blunt, vicious and ugly whether it makes for entertainment or not.

Company Towns | Themes | Slavery by Another Name | PBS

Find out what life was like in company towns created to house workers in remote locations where an individual company owned all the buildings and businesses.

www.pbs.org

Space Settlements Could End Up Being Company Towns

You load 16 tons of moon rock, what do you get?

slate.com

Britain robbed India of $45 trillion & Thence 1.8 billion Indians died from deprivation | MR Online

Eminent Indian economist Professor Utsa Patnaik (Jawaharlal Nehru University) has estimated that Britain robbed India of $45 trillion between 1765 and 1938, however it is estimated that if India had remained free with 24% of world GDP as in 1700 then its cumulative GDP would have been $232...

mronline.org

The Bengal Famine: How the British engineered the worst genocide in human history for profit

It was worse than the Jews Hitler decimated during WW2. And it went on for centuries. This Independence Day a look back on the Bengal Famine, the worst crime committed by the British during their stint as our rulers.

yourstory.com

I think you're missing my point. I'm not questioning that corporations, given the opportunity to exploit workers with zero oversight, won't do it. They will. I'm saying that, narratively, as an interactive video game I'M playing, the level of depth they put into it, from a gaming perspective, is incredibly boring. The ONLY plot point, on EVERY planet, is "corporations bad". Ok, yes I agree, and? I mean you have that Totally Not Rick clone scientist guy that thawed you out, constantly remarking, when you encounter ANOTHER example of "corporations bad" chiming in with "Gosh! corporations sure are bad! look how bad they are!" Yes Rick, I GET IT! This is location number 8 that is hammering home this same plot point. I understand. Can we do something else with this game? Can you maybe, I dunno, explore it more deeply? No? We're going to have slapstick levels of idiocy, and Monty Python levels of bureaucratic red tape, to the point that I couldn't take the game seriously. I mean IT didn't seem to want to be taken seriously, from the moment we start, we fall in and land on some schlub, killing him, and are met with a guy bleeding out, but who is too busy giving the corporation jingle to us to explain his true needs. And then we just red tape our way into owning the ship. It's just, all a farce. Which, ok fine, you've made the game a farce, but don't expect me to take your writing seriously if that's all you are bringing to the table. 20+ hours of farce, that's just frankly, not my cup of tea.

My main complaint with TOW, isn't the game itself, it's the fans. How they went on, for months, if not years, about *pompous british voice* "Oh Obsidian's going to show Bethesda what for by jove! A REAL Fallout game! Huff huff huff! None of this tragedy of FO 4 and 76!! A TRUE FALLOUT GAME!!" *puff pipe and sip tea in smug gamer superiority* And then I start playing the game, and my one common thought, aside from "Fucking yes, I get it! Corporation Bad!" was "Gosh, I sure do feel like I'm playing Fallout 4 when playing this! I mean SO many elements, on EVERY level, are basically just copy/pasted from Bethesda. Yet somehow, this game good, FO4 bad....hmm...me thinks the Obsidian fanboys are huffing their own farts too much!"

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Thing is, life for people caught up in company towns and stuff like the east india trading company never had the privilege of subtlety to feel better about. Reality is often blunt, vicious and ugly whether it makes for entertainment or not.

Company Towns | Themes | Slavery by Another Name | PBS

Find out what life was like in company towns created to house workers in remote locations where an individual company owned all the buildings and businesses.

www.pbs.org

Space Settlements Could End Up Being Company Towns

You load 16 tons of moon rock, what do you get?

slate.com

Britain robbed India of $45 trillion & Thence 1.8 billion Indians died from deprivation | MR Online

Eminent Indian economist Professor Utsa Patnaik (Jawaharlal Nehru University) has estimated that Britain robbed India of $45 trillion between 1765 and 1938, however it is estimated that if India had remained free with 24% of world GDP as in 1700 then its cumulative GDP would have been $232...

mronline.org

The Bengal Famine: How the British engineered the worst genocide in human history for profit

It was worse than the Jews Hitler decimated during WW2. And it went on for centuries. This Independence Day a look back on the Bengal Famine, the worst crime committed by the British during their stint as our rulers.

yourstory.com

Christ. It’s a wonder the only tragedy that’s been burned into our brains is the Holocaust (assuming the Jewish one can monopolize the term). Maybe because if it were common knowledge there would be calls to replace the English language and system of measurement as a means of dissociation. Or more practically because the English are still fairly powerful and don’t rely on foreign aid and protection like Israel.

 

[Gordon_4]

I believe the best written 'step on me' type woman character in videogames has to be Morrigan from the first Dragon Age. Almost every line was pure snarky comedy gold delivered wonderfully by Claudia Black, and it's refreshing to have a team character in a videogame who isn't always fawning over your pre-determined brilliance, especially from a lady NPC. She was a regular pick for adventures cause I like being stepped on by cutting words, it helps maintain perspective too!

My issue with Morrigan is that she can never see the wisdom of being polite and gracious to get what you want with minimal fuss. I agree it’s excellent she’s not fawning over you, but for a character who is intelligent and pragmatic as she is it comes across as remarkably bull-headed. And even then it merely adds dimension to her.

But Varric Tethras is my Thedas Bro For Life and I was prepared to flip a fucking table of Inquisition put him unavoidably on the chopping block.

 

[Dalisclock]

My issue with Morrigan is that she can never see the wisdom of being polite and gracious to get what you want with minimal fuss. I agree it’s excellent she’s not fawning over you, but for a character who is intelligent and pragmatic as she is it comes across as remarkably bull-headed. And even then it merely adds dimension to her.

But Varric Tethras is my Thedas Bro For Life and I was prepared to flip a fucking table of Inquisition put him unavoidably on the chopping block.

This comic pretty much sums up how I feel about Morrigan. It felt like they wanted to do Kreia(KOTOR 2) but decided to go with "Sadistic *****" or maybe "Sociopathic Darwinist" angle, rather then the "Pragmatic realiist" I suspect they were going for(or thought they were going for).

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[Hawki]

Christ. It’s a wonder the only tragedy that’s been burned into our brains is the Holocaust (assuming the Jewish one can monopolize the term).

There's a number of reasons why the Holocaust is remembered:

-There's still people alive today who survived it.

-Genocides are as old as human history, but the Holocaust stands out because of its percision - an entire aparatus dedicated to the extermination of a group of people, whereas many other genocides in history have been more 'general' - for instance, the Mongols managed to wipe out 10% of the world's population, but their genocide was more "equal opportunity." Or, since the Bengal famine has been mentioned, a genocide of neglect rather than a systemic effort to wipe out a given group.

-The Holocaust has a high death toll of 7 million, so even by raw numbers, it does stand out, even if other 20th century genocides equalled or surpassed it (e.g. the Holdomor has a death count of 3-12 million, Mao's Great Leap Forward has a death toll of 10-50 million, etc.)

-Most of us live in Western countries, so we're of course going to be more aware of the Holocaust than other genocides.

-There's arguably the question of Israel itself. The desire for a Jewish homeland predates the Holocaust, but it was the Holocaust, in part, that allowed Israel to be created.