8 People Killed In Atlanta Massage Parlor Shootings

Piscian

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Neat.

Anyway, it was kind of a big deal in the United States, and in my Montana church in particular. Kinda circles back to the "why do white Christians and black Christians vote so differently" thread. It's mostly the racism.
One of the weirder parts of living in Montana was the Jesus stuff. At least in Billings, when you go to movies instead of the normal pre-movie commercials they'd have tons of commercials for Hillsong, religious events, christian film trailers and usually a couple of those Hillary 2016 or Obama's america, whatever conservative propaganda films. Only place I've ever seen that.
 

tstorm823

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Neat.

Anyway, it was kind of a big deal in the United States, and in my Montana church in particular. Kinda circles back to the "why do white Christians and black Christians vote so differently" thread. It's mostly the racism.
As a Catholic in the United States, if it was a big deal I woulda noticed. It's entirely possible that you just happen to know some poorly informed people.
 

Avnger

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As a Catholic in the United States, if it was a big deal I woulda noticed. It's entirely possible that you just happen to know some poorly informed people.
He was relating things he heard in a Catholic church. Last time I checked, there was more than one Catholic church located within the US, and my personal experience having entered more than one backs that up. It's entirely possible that you weren't there when it happened. That is unless you're claiming to be omniscient and omnipresent which, again last time I checked at least, was something only God could be according to Catholic doctrine?
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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He was relating things he heard in a Catholic church. Last time I checked, there was more than one Catholic church located within the US, and my personal experience having entered more than one backs that up. It's entirely possible that you weren't there when it happened. That is unless you're claiming to be omniscient and omnipresent which, again last time I checked at least, was something only God could be according to Catholic doctrine?
So to be clear because you've been into more than 1 church in your life and nothing else having happened there at all evidence wise it proves there's a vast network of racism in the Catholic church in the USA?
 

Gordon_4

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As a Catholic in the United States, if it was a big deal I woulda noticed. It's entirely possible that you just happen to know some poorly informed people.
It has been one of those weird fringe issues that pop up when hellfire and brimstone preachers get too much sacramental wine into them. And most of the ones I’ve observed in peoples homes, ol’ JC looks rather pale - like Lilly white - for a man who’d have been tooling and toiling in the Middle East before the invention of sunscreen or super wide brim hats. Mind I’m pretty confident most of those are recreations of Renaissance era art. But like I’d expect Jesus to be kind of brown.
 

Avnger

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So to be clear because you've been into more than 1 church in your life and nothing else having happened there at all evidence wise it proves there's a vast network of racism in the Catholic church in the USA?
As some conspiracy unique to Catholicism? No.
In the same vain that there's vast currents of racism throughout the US at large? Sure.

Though with how TheMysteriousGX's conclusion was

So, yeah. Not exactly shocked at the potential for racism in the religious sphere.
I'm not really sure why you're trying to put words in my mouth.
 

Agema

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It has been one of those weird fringe issues that pop up when hellfire and brimstone preachers get too much sacramental wine into them. And most of the ones I’ve observed in peoples homes, ol’ JC looks rather pale - like Lilly white - for a man who’d have been tooling and toiling in the Middle East before the invention of sunscreen or super wide brim hats. Mind I’m pretty confident most of those are recreations of Renaissance era art. But like I’d expect Jesus to be kind of brown.
Funnily enough, I'd expect Jesus to look most like the descendants of the people who lived in that area around 0 AD do. Therefore the closest being the Palestinians / Israeli Arabs.
 

tstorm823

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He was relating things he heard in a Catholic church. Last time I checked, there was more than one Catholic church located within the US, and my personal experience having entered more than one backs that up. It's entirely possible that you weren't there when it happened. That is unless you're claiming to be omniscient and omnipresent which, again last time I checked at least, was something only God could be according to Catholic doctrine?
The first post about this said it was the "evangelical" Catholic Church, suggesting a movement of people, not just one parish. The second post said it was a big deal in the United States, suggesting an entire nation of controversy, not just one parish. If you are trying to speak for TheMysteriousGX and claim it was just their experience of a single parish, you're just making my point over again.
Funnily enough, I'd expect Jesus to look most like the descendants of the people who lived in that area around 0 AD do. Therefore the closest being the Palestinians / Israeli Arabs.
Well that's a historical whiff on your part. Arabs didn't live in Palestine in 0 AD. Arabs lived in Arabia in 0 AD. Suggesting Jesus would look like the people who conquered the area centuries after his death is pretty off the mark.

It's a difficult thing to say what 0 AD Jewish people looked like, because the ethnically Jewish have spent a couple millennia being conquered and/or migrating elsewhere. It's not reasonable to think Jesus would look like a modern Jewish man after 1000 years intermarrying with Europeans, nor is it reasonable to suggest he'd look Arab because that's who moved into that area later. The best guess I would make would be somewhere in the spectrum of Greek and Egyptian ethnicities, since those were the civilizations sandwiching the region at the time.
 

Agema

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Well that's a historical whiff on your part. Arabs didn't live in Palestine in 0 AD. Arabs lived in Arabia in 0 AD. Suggesting Jesus would look like the people who conquered the area centuries after his death is pretty off the mark.
🤦‍♂️

They're called "Arabs" because they speak Arabic and have Arabicised culture, as does virtually everyone from Morocco to Iraq to some degree. Strangely enough, when the Arabs emerged from their peninsula they did not massacre all the natives from Morocco to Iraq and repopulate the whole region from scratch from their own gene pool. Like the Persians (/Babylonians), Greeks/Macedonians, Romans, and whoever else before them, and as conquerors normally do literally anywhere, they imposed a nobility or mercantile upper middle class whilst the mass of peasants continued as they had for millennia. The Palestinians are thus heavily descended from the Palestinians of Roman times. They just converted first to Christianity, then mostly to Islam, and started speaking Arabic.

In fact, there are genetic studies of the people in the region - we actually know that the Palestinians and Israeli Jews are genetically close. Of course they are. They come from the same ancestors.
 

Hades

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In Japan don't you not only have to prove you're innocent, but also find the real culprit and prove it was them all as part of the defense, and you are presumed guilty until you can prove someone else did it?
Certainly in Ace Attorney.
 

tstorm823

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🤦‍♂️

They're called "Arabs" because they speak Arabic and have Arabicised culture, as does virtually everyone from Morocco to Iraq to some degree. Strangely enough, when the Arabs emerged from their peninsula they did not massacre all the natives from Morocco to Iraq and repopulate the whole region from scratch from their own gene pool. Like the Persians (/Babylonians), Greeks/Macedonians, Romans, and whoever else before them, and as conquerors normally do literally anywhere, they imposed a nobility or mercantile upper middle class whilst the mass of peasants continued as they had for millennia. The Palestinians are thus heavily descended from the Palestinians of Roman times. They just converted first to Christianity, then mostly to Islam, and started speaking Arabic.

In fact, there are genetic studies of the people in the region - we actually know that the Palestinians and Israeli Jews are genetically close. Of course they are. They come from the same ancestors.
What are you on about?

a) "Arabs" can refer to either the language/culture or to the ethnicity originating on the Arabian peninsula. I gave you the benefit of the doubt as to not say something are stupid as "Jesus would look like someone who speaks Arabic", and assumed you were talking about the ethnicity, since language isn't a skin color.

b) It's silly to pretend there is continuity in the population of that region. I'm sure there's lineage, no argument there, but that region was conquered repeatedly, destroyed in the conquests, abandoned by the empires for centuries only to have floods of immigration for a century (both Jewish and Muslim). To look and say "that's probably what people were like there genetically 2000 years ago" is quite the claim.

c) They're genetically close relative to what? Are modern Palestinians and Jewish people more closely related than they are to the English or the Chinese? Well yeah, duh. What point are you making? Are you suggesting Jesus would look like an Israeli Jew? That Israeli Jews and Palestinians look the same? That either group's appearance has been unaffected by the cultures they've lived beside for the last 1000 years? Why bring that up?
 

Agema

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a) "Arabs" can refer to either the language/culture or to the ethnicity originating on the Arabian peninsula. I gave you the benefit of the doubt as to not say something are stupid as "Jesus would look like someone who speaks Arabic", and assumed you were talking about the ethnicity, since language isn't a skin color.
I assume it is merely your ignorance to not know that the vast majority of "Israeli Arabs" are the Muslim/Christian Mandate Palestinians who happened to be on territory annexed by Israel after the borders were settled.

b) It's silly to pretend there is continuity in the population of that region. I'm sure there's lineage, no argument there, but that region was conquered repeatedly, destroyed in the conquests, abandoned by the empires for centuries only to have floods of immigration for a century (both Jewish and Muslim).
What on earth...? There is no "continuity" but there is "lineage"? You may as well argue a towel is soaked with water but is not wet.

There is precisely zero evidence of mass depopulation of Palestine at any point. Yeah, the odd city was sacked, there was war, there was disease, but never wholesale depopulation. One can point to immigration, particularly maybe late 19th / early 20th century, which can only be estimated. However, most of the more reliable estimates of pop growth would arrive at about 85-90% of the 1947 Arab population being natives.

It is however very political advantageous for Israel (and by extension the US right) to make a great deal of Arab immigration, because the task is fundamentally to deny that Palestinians have a moral right to the land they lived on and owned until 1947. So they're not really Palestinians. There aren't supposed to be real Palestinians with (as you put it) lineage, just a bunch of johnny-come-lately interlopers who implicitly should be kicked out ('back') to Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. And just in case we weren't clear on this, more rabid pro-Israeli supporters will also stress that they only turned up in the first place because the Jews were creating so much wealth and prosperity. Uh-huh. Even in the early 20th century, what was the Jewish claim? "A land without a people for a people without a land". They were rhetorically disinheriting the inhabitants long before the state of Israel even existed.

If we moved back to the basic thesis of what Jesus looked like, however, one might note that even the Jews of Jesus's time were themselves something of a mongrel race, Canaanites intermixing mostly with Syrians, Egyptians, Phoenicians and the various nomadic desert tribes we'd now call Bedouin, etc. If your central thesis is that the modern Palestinians won't look much like ancient Palestinians because they have intermixed a bit with Levantine and Egyptian immigrants despite the fact that the ancient Jews were themselves the products of intermixing of Levantine and Egyptian populations, your argument sucks.

c) They're genetically close relative to what?
Close to each other, as is the obvious meaning of that sentence's construction. You seem to think the idea near-heretical, when in fact it should make perfect sense to anyone who hasn't swallowed the pro-Israeli propaganda that the Palestinians have nothing to do with the pre-Roman population.

Yes, Jesus would likely have looked like an average Israeli Jew. I would suggest a Palestinian ahead of an Israeli Jew because whilst the diaspora will have mostly interbred with Europeans, the Palestinians will have interbred mostly with their neighbours, and those neighbours will have looked more like the ancient Jews than Europeans. I am aware this is potentially a thin distinction, as I'm not sure people could tell many Israeli Jews from Palestinians by their facial features anyway.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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FBI Director Christopher Wray told NPR Tuesday’s Atlanta-area shootings that killed eight people — six of whom were Asian-American — do not seem to be linked to race, backing up local police who say the alleged shooter was probably motivated by a sex addiction rather than racial animus, a theory that’s drawn skepticism and pushback from some corners.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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The first post about this said it was the "evangelical" Catholic Church, suggesting a movement of people, not just one parish. The second post said it was a big deal in the United States, suggesting an entire nation of controversy, not just one parish. If you are trying to speak for TheMysteriousGX and claim it was just their experience of a single parish, you're just making my point over again.
Voting records suggest it isn't just a small local issue.

Like, if you want an example of actually real culture wars, the morphing of Christianity in the USA is a fascinatingly depressing topic.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Voting records suggest it isn't just a small local issue.

Like, if you want an example of actually real culture wars, the morphing of Christianity in the USA is a fascinatingly depressing topic.
ah yes because only racist vote republican or something right?
 

Trunkage

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Just going to suggest a YouTube channel

The channel looks at genetic diversity and migration. It's probably more complicated than Agema is describing. There are a few videos that might be relevant. But a lot of his videos are just generally interesting
 

Trunkage

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ah yes because only racist vote republican or something right?
I wouldn't say that. I would say that many Christian churches in the US are radicalising it's congregations and the only home at this time is Republicans.

The Dems have their own racists ideology that's fucked up but it's generally more from being ignorant rather than malicious.