259: Vaginophobia

[Kermi]

I stopped reading when you said Dom killed his wife because she would be a burden.

If the writer of this article is so deliberately misreading plot elements in order to justify this flamebait disguised as an article, then I have no interest in reading it.
I don't think there is a fear of feminine influence in gaming, there's just a lack of feminine influence in gaming. This has improved over time and will continue to trend upwards, I'm sure.
It's only in recent years we've got an equivalent amount women playing games as to men, why would we have abundant representation among development teams already. What percentage of Congressman or Senators are female? Maybe the government is afraid of women too?

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't understand how people can obsess over sexes and sexual stereotypes and insecurities and blahablahoblahargh. I really couldn't care less about "vaginophobia" in games.

The latter is rather indicative of the former.

Why yes, you are right. I am all but certain that there is a correlation between the two!

Yeah, sorry, I misread the first part as "I understand how people can..." Which made your post seem contradictory.

But I agree with you. I don't understand why people are so uppity about sexism. I mean, you have a culture which has traditionally treated one set of people differently based on their genitals for most of recorded history, and people dare complain about how cultural indications still demonstrate that. The nerve of some people!

 

[Jinxey]

Ok, seriously, I rarely post here, but I cannot even begin to resist the urge.

First off the author is a male, presenting the concept that our gaming culture is representative of fears of women, manifest by damsels in distress as it relates to dominion and over sized machismo be it guns, utilities, attitudes, ect

I think we can at least agree, that games do typify male roles in a more dominant way, Although Last I checked video games are a form of recreation, relaxation, escapisim and fantasy. If there is a fear of women present It would have to lie in not fear of women, but more accurately a fear of a world without masculinity.

Perhaps that is the appeal, after turning on the tv to see countless emotional dramas, reality tv that banks on pointless emotional drama, then commercials come on featuring a movie marketed to young males, featuring the lead role to an effeminite mouseketeer like say Shia Labouf followed by Axe fragrances that insist that if you just feminize yourself, women will like you more. Then get sick of seeing it and change the channel to see pervasive anime, which Otaku culture frequently presents men as nothing more than childish boys who have nothing resembling a spine and are typically subserviant to females desparately begging for their affection. I literally could go on for a lifetime.

Did the author or the cited speaker ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, men get tired of seeing men turned into metrosexuals and effeminate lady boys and seeings as you basically cant do anything in this world that hasnt been hyper feminized over the last 50+ years, Dont belive me? Take a stroll through your local mall, find a Ambercrombie and fitch, Areopostle, Rue 21, Hot topic, Hell basically any retailer gearing for the 15-25 demographic and note that the sections selling mens clothes basically look identical in cuts, designs, colors as the sections selling female garments

Can you really blame a guy to have to turn to video games for anything even remotely construed as representing masculine qualities?

Seriously, its hillarious that the author out and out disclaims him self at the begining by projecting his own subconscious insecurities. All I can say to all of this is just because your too afraid to be a man, dont assume there is something wrong with a culture that allows and celebrates what has worked for the species for 200,000+ years, 3500 years, or since last thursday dependent upon which book you choose to read.

This man blew my f-ing mind
/applaud

 

[okogamashii]

Not saying all men are this way, but I find that it's the men that spend the most time going on about how manly they are that tend to be the most pathetic, especially at talking to women.

 

[Lucifron]

I don't understand how people can obsess over sexes and sexual stereotypes and insecurities and blahablahoblahargh. I really couldn't care less about "vaginophobia" in games.

The latter is rather indicative of the former.

Why yes, you are right. I am all but certain that there is a correlation between the two!

Yeah, sorry, I misread the first part as "I understand how people can..." Which made your post seem contradictory.

But I agree with you. I don't understand why people are so uppity about sexism. I mean, you have a culture which has traditionally treated one set of people differently based on their genitals for most of recorded history, and people dare complain about how cultural indications still demonstrate that. The nerve of some people!

They're not so much complaining as they are obsessing over it to the point of confusing "lack of vaginae" with "fear of vaginae" and "finding" proof of their theories in the most laughable of places. It's not that bad. Give it a rest already. This is not 1960. Argh!

 

[shlominus]

The hostility found in these comments pretty much proves just how insecure some of these male gamers actually are. The 40% is an accurate number, and no amount of chest thumping is going to explain that away.

this!

 

[LiquidGrape]

I'd like to see a comprehensive Bechdel Test of video game culture.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the medium has a staggering surplus of females who are constantly in want of direct or indirect affirmation from their male counterparts.

I thought it was quite obvious that the average game caters to a rather infantile boys room demographic.

 

[armaina]

Forgive me if I find the first part a little hard to believe

Considering about 95% of my female friends all play video games ranging from Action to Puzzles, I'm not so sure what's so hard to believe about it.

The hostility found in these comments pretty much proves just how insecure some of these male gamers actually are. The 40% is an accurate number, and no amount of chest thumping is going to explain that away.

Quite agreed.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Ouch. Busted recycling your own articles. How embarrassing for you.
I am not gonna read the same article again but I do remember thinking it was a load of crap last time.

It's embarrassing to run an article in a "Best of" issue? That's pretty much the point of a Best Of - to rerun articles you might have missed the first time that we think are worth seeing and/or discussing.

Susie and Escapist crew, you guys should maybe warn this is a repeat article, maybe on the topic's first post, to stop people from saying you were busted repeating old articles and getting warm fuzzies over it. I absolutely must not allow people to get warm fuzzies whithout my consent.

Or on the cover of the magazine, where it says 'Best Of' in great big letters? Granted, not everyone gets to the article from the front page, but how about people just not immediately assuming we're trying to pull a fast one on our readers? How would that be?

 

[theshadowcult]

It's not the vaginas i am scared of, but the women attached...

Going back over the article, considering the choice of GTA4 as an example, i don't think it fits with the rest. In GtaVI, the use of women and sex, it's not about the women at all, it's about the life Niko leads, being the type of war vet he is, his view of any relationship is warped, even in the end with the Irish girl it's not about his affection for the girl, but his decision to settle down. All of the choices made in the game revolving women have nothing to do with the actual women involved. At least that's the way i read it.

EDIT: I don't think i explained that very well, my main point should be that it's not about the male/female role, but the life itself.

 

[Gunner_Guardian]

I think the article is hitting several different issues and trying to pin them as one issue and it doesn't cite it's evidence very well. I've seen a lot of better videos and articles then this one about some of the issues it's trying to portray. Like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ZVZRsy8N8

 

[Birdmad]

"Uncharted 2: Among Thieves, Left 4 Dead 2, Assassin's Creed 2, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, and Batman: Arkham Asylum.

To whom are these experiences most likely to appeal?"

I'm a girl and I love every single one of these games and I doubt I'm the only one. We're not little frail creatures that can't handle "aggressive antagonists".

Thank you!
Here's one thing: girls are not that different from boys. They also like to shoot things. They are also pretty violent. You should see what little girls do to their barbies...
The big difference is that adults tell them that violence is ugly! - And, of course, that if they want to be loved, they must be pretty. Girls are taught not to be excited, to be peaceful and cute.

Also... I kind of understand the female characters being hot an all... Games are also about things we'd like to experience (but in a safe place, of course) and if I'm going to experience a relationship my partner'd better be hot! - And smart, and funny and all that jazz!

Still, I agree some of the gaming community is a bit scared of woman. I remember that in both rpg events I went most guys didn't know how to react: some acted like I wasn't supposed to be there and thought I didn't know how to play / was just someone's girlfriend, some acted like they needed to seduce me or gain points with me or something, and some acted like I was just another gamer (thx God!)!

Some gamers never had much contact with girls and, yes, they are strange to them. They are a bit scary... Like everything we don't know much about.

I mostly had female friends my whole life (and they all were gamers...) so, when I started having male friends I was a bit scared of them, of course. I didn't know how to react... Were they just like my female friends?
In the end I've learned that, mostly, yes, they were a lot like my female friends and there was nothing to be afraid of.

I don't think that the fear of females applies to the whole gaming community...

Still, I wish there were more games where I can play a female character to kick other people's ass... and have a hot guy as a romantic partner! And all that jazz... (when I was little, Lara Croft was my hero... she's not enough now, though...)

I mean, if we can play as guys and enjoy it, I'm sure if companies released games with female protagonist most gamers would enjoy it too...

welll, I've said too much and I'm not sure if i've made my point clear. Still, just an opinion. No scientific articles to prove anything!

Sorry if there are many english mistakes, I'm not a native english speaker

 

[habslove]

I mean, if we can play as guys and enjoy it, I'm sure if companies released games with female protagonist most gamers would enjoy it too...

Yeah I don't mind playing as a guy but if I can be a chick, 99% of the time that's who I play as

 

[Birdmad]

I mean, if we can play as guys and enjoy it, I'm sure if companies released games with female protagonist most gamers would enjoy it too...

Yeah I don't mind playing as a guy but if I can be a chick, 99% of the time that's who I play as

Same here! I'm always a girl at fighting games or whenever I have the option!

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

This article reminds me of all the guys who say girls either can't play games or only play games like "Farmville" and "Cooking Momma" and therefore aren't actual gamers. Maybe they should all read this article, then re-read it so they actually absorb the information.

... because guys are so stupid? If you're going to start a post by repelling your audience, why bother putting mileage on your keyboard to finish it?

I think this is a really good article, but I'm afraid that many of the male readers won't be able to come to terms with the information, because it deals with deep-seated phobias that they can't admit they have. It reminds me of the term "doublethink", from George Orwell's 1984. They don't want to admit to having these fears, so they forget they have them.

Or alternately it's a projection of what feminists want to see on people with so little opinion of the issue that they're basically a blank slate. Freudian psychology is so much snake oil, the only possible conclusion of Freudian analysis is that the subject wants to have sex with one parent and kill the other... feminists use a similar "your problems are so deep you have no idea they're there, so we'll tell you what's wrong with you" techinque and of course it always ends up that guys hate women and need to stop being so damned male and all their problems would go away. YOU ARE SHOCK.

I think society would benefit from having a little bit more feminism injected into it. Not hardcore feminism, but more being in tune with your feelings, being able and willing to talk to someone about your problems, and not being afraid to show care and understanding, especially if you're a guy.

The sheer volume of thing guys don't notice or think / care / register an opinion about would probably count as a vegetative state for a woman. We're different. Getting along requires a more realistic prescription than "just be what girls want and everything will be fine". We wouldn't even have a feminism movement if one gender was capable of happily living up to the other's self-centered expectations, given how hard guys have tried pushing for that cause.

 

[Jinxey]

"I think society would benefit from having a little bit more feminism injected into it. Not hardcore feminism, but more being in tune with your feelings, being able and willing to talk to someone about your problems, and not being afraid to show care and understanding, especially if you're a guy."

This is the kind of crap that does infuriate me >.<

I'm 100% happy being who I am - why do I have to be what you want me to be?
That whole quote makes it sound more like you have daddy issues than you care about mankind (in this use, specifically men) than anything.

I ain't broke don't fix me .

 

[JoeCool385]

"Our secular culture produces all kinds of fear, including fear of the female anatomy."

I literally lol'd at this and had to stop reading for a minute to regain my composure. Our secular culture does not, in any way, shape, or form, "fear" female anatomy. Quite the opposite, actually, to the point that it's hard to get away from it.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/5/7/

You are confusing culture with individuals. Individuals don't fear the female anatomy but let's just look at television. You can show some pretty violent stuff on tv but the second someone shows a boob, you get social groups (not individual members of the society, but groups) that are up in arms.

Really, I can tell the difference between culture and individuals. An individual is a single person. A culture is a shared set of values, customs, and traditions amongst people. I'm not dumb.

But that doesn't change the fact that secular culture is in love with female anatomy. It seems everywhere I turn--TV, newspapers, magazines, print ads, billboards, video games, movies, music videos--there are women wearing various kinds of revealing clothing. If someone didn't want to view it (can't imagine why not), he'd have trouble getting away from it. Also, I've seen statistics (97% of which are made up) that indicate the percentage of children that are exposed to pornography. As I recall, the majority of children have seen porn by the time they're adolescents. That (potentially made up) figure is not indicative of a society so afraid of female anatomy that it's hidden from view.

And the groups that protest female anatomy on TV? Usually religiously motivated. The key word in the quote was "secular". I wouldn't have argued otherwise. Plus, one can argue whether the groups are genuinely "afraid" in a misogynistic sort of way, or if they're just trying to fruitlessly preserve some old-fashioned sense of chastity.

 

[haaxist]

"I think society would benefit from having a little bit more feminism injected into it. Not hardcore feminism, but more being in tune with your feelings, being able and willing to talk to someone about your problems, and not being afraid to show care and understanding, especially if you're a guy."

This is the kind of crap that does infuriate me >.<

I'm 100% happy being who I am - why do I have to be what you want me to be?
That whole quote makes it sound more like you have daddy issues than you care about mankind (in this use, specifically men) than anything.

I ain't broke don't fix me .

Why, yes, actually, since I haven't seen my dad since I was three years old, and have since known two other men as my step-father, the first which only lasted four years, and the second which has lasted six but doesn't like teenagers, and teenage girls in particular, I would say that I have "daddy issues". And the fact that I have yet to meet any guy who genuinely cares what I think, or even respects me for who I am (as in, not calling me "*****", "whore", or "c-nt"), well, I would agree with you that I think that it's mostly men who should change. I'm sorry if the crap that spews from my brain offends you. I'll get back to the kitchen now.

 

[hanako]

Speaking of statistics that are hard to verify, someone was quoting stats that apparently the percentage of women in computer science was much higher in the 1970s than it is now - it took a huge nosedive somewhere in the 80s.

This also lines up with my (purely anecdotal) evidence about the perception of computers and video games in the early-to-mid 1980s: they were for *everyone* rather than considered to be a "guy thing". When I was a tiny little girl, all the girls at school, even girls who would rather be set on fire than be considered in any way geeky or unfeminine, had videogames (Atari or Coleco generally). Babysitters (female) and even my mother were all quite interested in playing.

Then came the big crash, then Nintendo rising from the ashes, and then the buddings of gamer culture and the popularisation of the young socially-awkward male gamer geek. By the time I had a SNES, young neighborhood boys were gawking and whispering at the very idea that a GIRL was playing video games. The SNES was certainly not ubiquitous among my female classmates, and people like my mother retreated to playing nothing but endless games of Solitaire.

That's culture. Obviously it's not going to stop someone who knows what she wants and is determined about it, but it turns off a lot of people who were on the fence and stops others from even trying.

But it's more than just culture, because ideally we should be able to mention that "Hey, a lot of maladjusted male youths play videogames!" without making other people feel excluded or insulted. There is something in human nature that likes to categorise and pre-judge....

 

[Jinxey]

Why, yes, actually, since I haven't seen my dad since I was three years old, and have since known two other men as my step-father, the first which only lasted four years, and the second which has lasted six but doesn't like teenagers, and teenage girls in particular, I would say that I have "daddy issues". And the fact that I have yet to meet any guy who genuinely cares what I think, or even respects me for who I am (as in, not calling me "*****", "whore", or "c-nt"), well, I would agree with you that I think that it's mostly men who should change. I'm sorry if the crap that spews from my brain offends you. I'll get back to the kitchen now.

To reply in equal sarcasm,
I'm sorry I got offended at your obvious distrust/dislike for mankind being a man.
/sarcasm

1.) I listened to you
2.) Stated my emotions (I am infuriated)
3.) Stated I have an opposing opinion without using the words *****, whore or **** to describe you.

Isn't that what you said you wanted in the first post? Lets review!

I think society would benefit from having a little bit more feminism injected into it. Not hardcore feminism, but more being in tune with your feelings, being able and willing to talk to someone about your problems, and not being afraid to show care and understanding, especially if you're a guy

in tune with my feelings; check.
being able and willing to talk to someone about my problem; check. (my problem being you think I got a problem).
not afraid to show I care and understand; while I don't understand I haven't said you're stupid or anything, just stated my own opposing opinion that's a check in my book.
especially if you're a guy; check.

Peace, and I mean that-