259: Vaginophobia
- Thread starter Michael Thomsen
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Or on the cover of the magazine, where it says 'Best Of' in great big letters? Granted, not everyone gets to the article from the front page, but how about people just not immediately assuming we're trying to pull a fast one on our readers? How would that be?The Random One said:
It's not the vaginas i am scared of, but the women attached...
Going back over the article, considering the choice of GTA4 as an example, i don't think it fits with the rest. In GtaVI, the use of women and sex, it's not about the women at all, it's about the life Niko leads, being the type of war vet he is, his view of any relationship is warped, even in the end with the Irish girl it's not about his affection for the girl, but his decision to settle down. All of the choices made in the game revolving women have nothing to do with the actual women involved. At least that's the way i read it.
EDIT: I don't think i explained that very well, my main point should be that it's not about the male/female role, but the life itself.
Going back over the article, considering the choice of GTA4 as an example, i don't think it fits with the rest. In GtaVI, the use of women and sex, it's not about the women at all, it's about the life Niko leads, being the type of war vet he is, his view of any relationship is warped, even in the end with the Irish girl it's not about his affection for the girl, but his decision to settle down. All of the choices made in the game revolving women have nothing to do with the actual women involved. At least that's the way i read it.
EDIT: I don't think i explained that very well, my main point should be that it's not about the male/female role, but the life itself.
I think the article is hitting several different issues and trying to pin them as one issue and it doesn't cite it's evidence very well. I've seen a lot of better videos and articles then this one about some of the issues it's trying to portray. Like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ZVZRsy8N8
Thank you!habslove said:
Here's one thing: girls are not that different from boys. They also like to shoot things. They are also pretty violent. You should see what little girls do to their barbies...
The big difference is that adults tell them that violence is ugly! - And, of course, that if they want to be loved, they must be pretty. Girls are taught not to be excited, to be peaceful and cute.
Also... I kind of understand the female characters being hot an all... Games are also about things we'd like to experience (but in a safe place, of course) and if I'm going to experience a relationship my partner'd better be hot! - And smart, and funny and all that jazz!
Still, I agree some of the gaming community is a bit scared of woman. I remember that in both rpg events I went most guys didn't know how to react: some acted like I wasn't supposed to be there and thought I didn't know how to play / was just someone's girlfriend, some acted like they needed to seduce me or gain points with me or something, and some acted like I was just another gamer (thx God!)!
Some gamers never had much contact with girls and, yes, they are strange to them. They are a bit scary... Like everything we don't know much about.
I mostly had female friends my whole life (and they all were gamers...) so, when I started having male friends I was a bit scared of them, of course. I didn't know how to react... Were they just like my female friends?
In the end I've learned that, mostly, yes, they were a lot like my female friends and there was nothing to be afraid of.
I don't think that the fear of females applies to the whole gaming community...
Still, I wish there were more games where I can play a female character to kick other people's ass... and have a hot guy as a romantic partner! And all that jazz... (when I was little, Lara Croft was my hero... she's not enough now, though...)
I mean, if we can play as guys and enjoy it, I'm sure if companies released games with female protagonist most gamers would enjoy it too...
welll, I've said too much and I'm not sure if i've made my point clear. Still, just an opinion. No scientific articles to prove anything!
Sorry if there are many english mistakes, I'm not a native english speaker
Same here! I'm always a girl at fighting games or whenever I have the option!habslove said:Yeah I don't mind playing as a guy but if I can be a chick, 99% of the time that's who I play asBirdmad said:I mean, if we can play as guys and enjoy it, I'm sure if companies released games with female protagonist most gamers would enjoy it too...
... because guys are so stupid? If you're going to start a post by repelling your audience, why bother putting mileage on your keyboard to finish it?girl_in_background said:
Or alternately it's a projection of what feminists want to see on people with so little opinion of the issue that they're basically a blank slate. Freudian psychology is so much snake oil, the only possible conclusion of Freudian analysis is that the subject wants to have sex with one parent and kill the other... feminists use a similar "your problems are so deep you have no idea they're there, so we'll tell you what's wrong with you" techinque and of course it always ends up that guys hate women and need to stop being so damned male and all their problems would go away. YOU ARE SHOCK.
The sheer volume of thing guys don't notice or think / care / register an opinion about would probably count as a vegetative state for a woman. We're different. Getting along requires a more realistic prescription than "just be what girls want and everything will be fine". We wouldn't even have a feminism movement if one gender was capable of happily living up to the other's self-centered expectations, given how hard guys have tried pushing for that cause.
"I think society would benefit from having a little bit more feminism injected into it. Not hardcore feminism, but more being in tune with your feelings, being able and willing to talk to someone about your problems, and not being afraid to show care and understanding, especially if you're a guy."
This is the kind of crap that does infuriate me >.<
I'm 100% happy being who I am - why do I have to be what you want me to be?
That whole quote makes it sound more like you have daddy issues than you care about mankind (in this use, specifically men) than anything.
I ain't broke don't fix me.
This is the kind of crap that does infuriate me >.<
I'm 100% happy being who I am - why do I have to be what you want me to be?
That whole quote makes it sound more like you have daddy issues than you care about mankind (in this use, specifically men) than anything.
I ain't broke don't fix me
.
Really, I can tell the difference between culture and individuals. An individual is a single person. A culture is a shared set of values, customs, and traditions amongst people. I'm not dumb.ShadowKirby said:
But that doesn't change the fact that secular culture is in love with female anatomy. It seems everywhere I turn--TV, newspapers, magazines, print ads, billboards, video games, movies, music videos--there are women wearing various kinds of revealing clothing. If someone didn't want to view it (can't imagine why not), he'd have trouble getting away from it. Also, I've seen statistics (97% of which are made up) that indicate the percentage of children that are exposed to pornography. As I recall, the majority of children have seen porn by the time they're adolescents. That (potentially made up) figure is not indicative of a society so afraid of female anatomy that it's hidden from view.
And the groups that protest female anatomy on TV? Usually religiously motivated. The key word in the quote was "secular". I wouldn't have argued otherwise. Plus, one can argue whether the groups are genuinely "afraid" in a misogynistic sort of way, or if they're just trying to fruitlessly preserve some old-fashioned sense of chastity.
Why, yes, actually, since I haven't seen my dad since I was three years old, and have since known two other men as my step-father, the first which only lasted four years, and the second which has lasted six but doesn't like teenagers, and teenage girls in particular, I would say that I have "daddy issues". And the fact that I have yet to meet any guy who genuinely cares what I think, or even respects me for who I am (as in, not calling me "*****", "whore", or "c-nt"), well, I would agree with you that I think that it's mostly men who should change. I'm sorry if the crap that spews from my brain offends you. I'll get back to the kitchen now.Jinxey said:"I think society would benefit from having a little bit more feminism injected into it. Not hardcore feminism, but more being in tune with your feelings, being able and willing to talk to someone about your problems, and not being afraid to show care and understanding, especially if you're a guy."
This is the kind of crap that does infuriate me >.<
I'm 100% happy being who I am - why do I have to be what you want me to be?
That whole quote makes it sound more like you have daddy issues than you care about mankind (in this use, specifically men) than anything.
I ain't broke don't fix me
Speaking of statistics that are hard to verify, someone was quoting stats that apparently the percentage of women in computer science was much higher in the 1970s than it is now - it took a huge nosedive somewhere in the 80s.
This also lines up with my (purely anecdotal) evidence about the perception of computers and video games in the early-to-mid 1980s: they were for *everyone* rather than considered to be a "guy thing". When I was a tiny little girl, all the girls at school, even girls who would rather be set on fire than be considered in any way geeky or unfeminine, had videogames (Atari or Coleco generally). Babysitters (female) and even my mother were all quite interested in playing.
Then came the big crash, then Nintendo rising from the ashes, and then the buddings of gamer culture and the popularisation of the young socially-awkward male gamer geek. By the time I had a SNES, young neighborhood boys were gawking and whispering at the very idea that a GIRL was playing video games. The SNES was certainly not ubiquitous among my female classmates, and people like my mother retreated to playing nothing but endless games of Solitaire.
That's culture. Obviously it's not going to stop someone who knows what she wants and is determined about it, but it turns off a lot of people who were on the fence and stops others from even trying.
But it's more than just culture, because ideally we should be able to mention that "Hey, a lot of maladjusted male youths play videogames!" without making other people feel excluded or insulted. There is something in human nature that likes to categorise and pre-judge....
This also lines up with my (purely anecdotal) evidence about the perception of computers and video games in the early-to-mid 1980s: they were for *everyone* rather than considered to be a "guy thing". When I was a tiny little girl, all the girls at school, even girls who would rather be set on fire than be considered in any way geeky or unfeminine, had videogames (Atari or Coleco generally). Babysitters (female) and even my mother were all quite interested in playing.
Then came the big crash, then Nintendo rising from the ashes, and then the buddings of gamer culture and the popularisation of the young socially-awkward male gamer geek. By the time I had a SNES, young neighborhood boys were gawking and whispering at the very idea that a GIRL was playing video games. The SNES was certainly not ubiquitous among my female classmates, and people like my mother retreated to playing nothing but endless games of Solitaire.
That's culture. Obviously it's not going to stop someone who knows what she wants and is determined about it, but it turns off a lot of people who were on the fence and stops others from even trying.
But it's more than just culture, because ideally we should be able to mention that "Hey, a lot of maladjusted male youths play videogames!" without making other people feel excluded or insulted. There is something in human nature that likes to categorise and pre-judge....
To reply in equal sarcasm,
I'm sorry I got offended at your obvious distrust/dislike for mankind being a man.
/sarcasm
1.) I listened to you
2.) Stated my emotions (I am infuriated)
3.) Stated I have an opposing opinion without using the words *****, whore or **** to describe you.
Isn't that what you said you wanted in the first post? Lets review!
in tune with my feelings; check.
being able and willing to talk to someone about my problem; check. (my problem being you think I got a problem).
not afraid to show I care and understand; while I don't understand I haven't said you're stupid or anything, just stated my own opposing opinion that's a check in my book.
especially if you're a guy; check.
Peace, and I mean that-
I probably misunderstand the meaning of the word in this context, but when Janet Jakobsen says our secular society breeds many fears including fear of the female anatomy, it strikes me as a bit strange.
I don't think any of the churches have done anything to prevent female anatomy bashing in their "good books". Secular values have without doubt done women more good than religious values.
I don't think any of the churches have done anything to prevent female anatomy bashing in their "good books". Secular values have without doubt done women more good than religious values.
Now that is very true. I'm currently slugging through Alpha Protocol, and I don't really know where else to look other than Michael Thorton's bulging biceps and pecs.
After reading this article and some of the comments, (most of which are obviously men), I have only to say this:
It's frightening to be a woman- it always has been, and you gamer guys aren't making it any easier for those of us who have to live with you and game alongside you. Most of you are afraid to truly reflect on what the author said and are calling BS or coming up with excuses to make yourselves feel better. You probably feel your masculinity is at stake. THAT WAS THE POINT OF THE ARTICLE. It's really not.
Woman are weaker physically, and now and historically we have had a lot more to loose in our encounters with the opposite sex. Misunderstanding, being treated as objects, rape- these are still prevalent today, and most have taken modern forms in the more 'civilized' countries. In videogames we see ourselves being made into objects to be oggled- we are hyper sexualized and one dimensional, and thats how the male fantasy wants it. (Male characters might be buff, but they aren't hyper sexualized- if they were they'd have giant erect penises, and cater to the desires of woman (or gay men), not to the male ego.) And to think there are games where you can kill the hussy/prostitute/girl for no reason other than 'you can' to fulfill some male fantasy is something that scares me deeply.
I am afraid of men.
Rape, in essence, is being treated as an object. Think about it... you don't care about her (or the general representation of women). They exist 'for you', to be feared, to be used for whatever pleasure you want at the time. When you treat a girl in a game as an object in order to act out your angst against women you are in essence raping all women, (or that woman if it is someone in particular).
We are people. Human beings, with hopes and dreams. We are your mothers, sisters, and daughters. We as a gender are generally not represented in the gaming medium in any respectable way.
I am a young married woman with a good husband and a son... I don't want him to grow up like you. I just want to be able to play Katamari or something with him when he gets older, and not worry about what dark path I might inadvertently be putting him on.
It's frightening to be a woman- it always has been, and you gamer guys aren't making it any easier for those of us who have to live with you and game alongside you. Most of you are afraid to truly reflect on what the author said and are calling BS or coming up with excuses to make yourselves feel better. You probably feel your masculinity is at stake. THAT WAS THE POINT OF THE ARTICLE. It's really not.
Woman are weaker physically, and now and historically we have had a lot more to loose in our encounters with the opposite sex. Misunderstanding, being treated as objects, rape- these are still prevalent today, and most have taken modern forms in the more 'civilized' countries. In videogames we see ourselves being made into objects to be oggled- we are hyper sexualized and one dimensional, and thats how the male fantasy wants it. (Male characters might be buff, but they aren't hyper sexualized- if they were they'd have giant erect penises, and cater to the desires of woman (or gay men), not to the male ego.) And to think there are games where you can kill the hussy/prostitute/girl for no reason other than 'you can' to fulfill some male fantasy is something that scares me deeply.
I am afraid of men.
Rape, in essence, is being treated as an object. Think about it... you don't care about her (or the general representation of women). They exist 'for you', to be feared, to be used for whatever pleasure you want at the time. When you treat a girl in a game as an object in order to act out your angst against women you are in essence raping all women, (or that woman if it is someone in particular).
We are people. Human beings, with hopes and dreams. We are your mothers, sisters, and daughters. We as a gender are generally not represented in the gaming medium in any respectable way.
I am a young married woman with a good husband and a son... I don't want him to grow up like you. I just want to be able to play Katamari or something with him when he gets older, and not worry about what dark path I might inadvertently be putting him on.
A little pro-tip from a guy that goes out of his way to piss people off. A lot of an argument is tone and choice of words. To get someone to care what you think, you have to be very careful about what you say (and, before you start going off on one, this applies to EVERYONE), and from reading through what you've written, even without the joys of being able to hear you speak, your choice of words is entirely constructed to make your argument seem less worthwhile - combative, contrary and putting words into other people's mouths.girl_in_background said:Why, yes, actually, since I haven't seen my dad since I was three years old, and have since known two other men as my step-father, the first which only lasted four years, and the second which has lasted six but doesn't like teenagers, and teenage girls in particular, I would say that I have "daddy issues". And the fact that I have yet to meet any guy who genuinely cares what I think, or even respects me for who I am (as in, not calling me "*****", "whore", or "c-nt"), well, I would agree with you that I think that it's mostly men who should change. I'm sorry if the crap that spews from my brain offends you. I'll get back to the kitchen now.Jinxey said:"I think society would benefit from having a little bit more feminism injected into it. Not hardcore feminism, but more being in tune with your feelings, being able and willing to talk to someone about your problems, and not being afraid to show care and understanding, especially if you're a guy."
This is the kind of crap that does infuriate me >.<
I'm 100% happy being who I am - why do I have to be what you want me to be?
That whole quote makes it sound more like you have daddy issues than you care about mankind (in this use, specifically men) than anything.
I ain't broke don't fix me
Honestly, if that's you (and it does seem that way), much like it is me, I say enjoy it. You'll never be taken seriously, but fully embraced, it lets you say whatever the fuck you want. Go on, try it, throw "****" randomly into a conversation with an authority figure - it's VERY liberating. When you've done this, come back and we'll cover step two - not getting caught
Also, never met my father, mother never remarried or even had a boyfriend, so that won't work on me
OT - I've read this before, and I still don't agree. Of course, I'm a grown man who has embraced his immature side with a vengeance, so it might just be that I don't see the bad side to wanting to gun shit down. Also, Dom kills his wife as a mercy killing, not out of a sense of mysoginist wankery.
Thanks for seeing the good in that.Chipperz said:A little pro-tip from a guy that goes out of his way to piss people off. A lot of an argument is tone and choice of words. To get someone to care what you think, you have to be very careful about what you say (and, before you start going off on one, this applies to EVERYONE), and from reading through what you've written, even without the joys of being able to hear you speak, your choice of words is entirely constructed to make your argument seem less worthwhile - combative, contrary and putting words into other people's mouths.girl_in_background said:Why, yes, actually, since I haven't seen my dad since I was three years old, and have since known two other men as my step-father, the first which only lasted four years, and the second which has lasted six but doesn't like teenagers, and teenage girls in particular, I would say that I have "daddy issues". And the fact that I have yet to meet any guy who genuinely cares what I think, or even respects me for who I am (as in, not calling me "*****", "whore", or "c-nt"), well, I would agree with you that I think that it's mostly men who should change. I'm sorry if the crap that spews from my brain offends you. I'll get back to the kitchen now.Jinxey said:"I think society would benefit from having a little bit more feminism injected into it. Not hardcore feminism, but more being in tune with your feelings, being able and willing to talk to someone about your problems, and not being afraid to show care and understanding, especially if you're a guy."
This is the kind of crap that does infuriate me >.<
I'm 100% happy being who I am - why do I have to be what you want me to be?
That whole quote makes it sound more like you have daddy issues than you care about mankind (in this use, specifically men) than anything.
I ain't broke don't fix me
Honestly, if that's you (and it does seem that way), much like it is me, I say enjoy it. You'll never be taken seriously, but fully embraced, it lets you say whatever the fuck you want. Go on, try it, throw "****" randomly into a conversation with an authority figure - it's VERY liberating. When you've done this, come back and we'll cover step two - not getting caught
Also, never met my father, mother never remarried or even had a boyfriend, so that won't work on me
OT - I've read this before, and I still don't agree. Of course, I'm a grown man who has embraced his immature side with a vengeance, so it might just be that I don't see the bad side to wanting to gun shit down. Also, Dom kills his wife as a mercy killing, not out of a sense of mysoginist wankery.
Honestly, after I hit the post button, I had one of those moments where it's like "Ah, crap, shouldnt've done that...". So, if I offended anyone with my post, please accept my apology. The first post, I didn't mean for it to come off sounding the way it did, the second post, well... I don't have any excuse for it, so again, I am sorry. I must say, though, thank you for not just ripping me a new one, and actually pointing out what I did wrong. I'll work on rectifying those errors in the future.