2K: New Genres Impossible Without Photorealism

[weatherfn]

Bull. As stated many times above, I believe Misters Lasseter, Docter, Disney, Miyazaki, Jones, and all the rest of the greats would have a lot to say about the "need for photorealism." Hell even Gertie the Dinosaur, one of the first cartoon animation sequences ever, got people to feel for it's line-drawn lizard.

And besides, photorealism is just a means, and will not solve the problems of story or gameplay. Final Fantasy XIII was pretty close to photorealism as it comes now (well, at least 2010), yet even if it jumped over the valley I still really wouldn't care for the characters. (Well, except Sazh...) Yet, Okami, in it's painterly, wood-carved style, both made me tear up AND feel like the god Ammy is. And I even played it on the Wii!

It's not the means in which the character is rendered, but the talent and skill of the renderer that determines any emotions felt. It's the same with every storytelling medium, from books to movies to games.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Games look more realistic than they ever have, and yet I feel far less engaged with modern characters.

Pretty much the same here, and for me it's because I've found most characters don't have any real emotional resonance with me. In most modern games we're either told, in a cack-handed manner, that we're supposed to empathise with Protagonist X or we're given a blank slate character and no encouragement or opportunity to satisfactorily fill in the details. They're not characters, they're simply vehicles for our interaction with the game world and so we don't give a shit about them beyond that use. It has absolutely nothing to do with being able to count the pores on their skin.

When I hear someone say "Oh, games are as good as we can make them right now til technology gets better" I immediately think: 1. You're lying, 2. You're lazy.

Is this Hartman bloke the same knobber at 2K that said turn based games were no longer viable despite the fact that they publish the world's biggest turn based franchise?


Also, you're right. There is no technological reason for the present stagnation of that characterises much of gaming today. If that were true, then the PC side of the industry would be shitting out innovation like it had dysentry, which it isn't.

For my money, the reason everything is so static is because everyone is waiting around for The Next Big Thing they can clone but very few people are actually trying to make it in the first place.

 

[dnazeri]

I hear what he's saying to some extent. I mean facial emotions yea, it might be hard to make them convincing enough to be evocative for the player, but I feel that games can often convey a really good sense of atmosphere in a way movies cant.

 

[synobal]

Strange Mass Effect didn't need photorealism to make me care about its characters.

 

[sapphireofthesea]

Really -.-
I cryed when Aerith died in FF7, and that had very basic graphics.
The problem is oversaturation of photorealism, to the point where imagination is failing and people cannot properly connect with the story. When you have a well told story, people connect with the words and actions being conveyed. They take the place of the person involved and it is not the visual emotions of that person that matter but the situation unfolding around them and the persons on respose to it. The focal character tells us what sort of base we have, wither we are ment to be strong willed or of a weaker disposition, but it is up to us and our imaginations to step into the roll and become part of the story.
I know not everyone can do it, and some need a story played out in front them like a movie. However, this represents only a subset with-in gaming, and the story driven half have been very much ignored by the inovation train, even by companies who are usually basitions of such things (I am looking at you SquareEnix).
I will wait and see what happens, but for me, I care little for graphics if the story isn't compelling (again SquareEnix, not been sucked in since FF10, FF12was a good try but lost me towards the end), and I would just as happily read a book as watch a movie or play a game, so take my opinion for what it is.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

anyone who truly believes that is a colossal moron. Maybe if people tried to actually put some effort into the script then MAYBE we'd get better emotions from storylines. Heck, Blazblue has a seriously unrealistic art style and I found that the characters grabbed my focus far more than 90% of the schlock gaming tries to pass off as a decent narrative. Same thing with FFVII, Persona 4, nearly every goddamned Pixar film, and TONS of cartoons. It's thinking like this that is one of the reasons gaming isn't taken seriously

 

[Kmadden2004]

Um... Mr. Hartmann? The kid from Limbo called... he wants to kick your ass.

 

[dantoddd]

Maybe they should read more books. Because those seem to be able convey deep emotions without photo anything.

 

[drosalion]

HAHAHAHA I can disprove the "you need photorealism to invoke emotion" in just two letters:

Up

Emotion is invoked through story, not graphics. Most games fail to invoke emotion besides basic "fun" (which, in fairness, is generally enough!) not by any failure of graphics but by failure in the story.

Was pretty much going to post the same thing but you already did. Saying what these guys said can be easily disproved by the viewing of any one of Pixar's films. Hell you're able to invote emotion of things that arent even humanoid (Wall-E, Cars, etc).

Furthermore, music, books, art and many other mediums are able to invoke deep emotions. I dont think I've heard a photorealistic song or read a photorealistic book yet (although if someone has one, hook us up!)

 

[punipunipyo]

and this is also why Borderlands sells way better than your crappy ass games, yes?

Photo real =/= Good games

 

[Chairman Miaow]

Bastion would like a word.

 

[Naeras]

How exactly is photorealism necessary for interesting mechanics and good writing?

 

[Evil Smurf]

Yet most innovation comes from indie games with nowhere near the graphical fidelity of AAA games. There are indie games that convey emotion very well. I'm not seeing the connection.
Captcha: end of story.

One game, Bastion. Ok I'm done here, just another dude speaking more crap, like we don't have enough in the game industry.

Bastion would like a word.

See Bastion. Best game ever Fantastic game, and it did not have photo realistic graphics

 

[MPerce]

Dear Mr. 2K Man.

Uh.....no.

You say games need to be photo realistic to capture the emotion of film. Well, what about film that's not photo realistic?

There's this little Japanese war film called Grave of the Fireflies, maybe you've heard of it. It's a cartoon, and it's the most heart-wrenching, tragic, and beautiful thing I've ever experienced. I sob like a little girl every time I watch it, and it's because I empathize with the characters in it, despite them not looking photo realistic at all.

Games can achieve that level of emotional involvement and empathy. Several have gotten pretty freakin close (hello SotC, Bastion, and many others]. We're at an unbelievably exciting turning point in this industry's history; you have the technology and talent to make some amazing art, and you also have a consumer base becoming more and more accepting of the artistic side of gaming.

And you give us this shit about "lack of empathy."

No. You are better than that.

 

[Mauler]

HAH i played Suikoden on PSx and i really cried when the Nanami(main characters stepsister) was killed near the end. That game was basicly 2d and didn't hawe any face animation, or another games that hawe 2d and no face animations(planscape tourment, Bastion) and games who had a bit blocky animations(Kotor, monkey island, etc...) i feel sorry for you game developers.

 

[beniki]

Well, thinking back to some of the old games I've played, like Mortal Kombat, Dark Forces 2, Rebel Assault (which no one remembers), and even CnC, we've already done photo realism...

Hell, we've even had Christopher Walken in a video game.

Captcha: Halcyon days

Captcha has a sense of humour.

 

[theSteamSupported]

Basically, what Hartmann says, is:

"In order for video games to be taken seriously, they have to be indistinguishable from movies. This is because all mature themed movies, like Brokeback Mountain or Citizen Kane, are live action. Cartoons are for children. Literature isn't a visual medium unlike movies and games."

Am I the only one who imagine Christoph like this?

<youtube=Lp9Qw47ZFVc?t>

 

[BBboy20]

..................................I'm pretty sure the term "photorealism" is used to describe the high-quality of the textures that depict the game in an realistic fashion.......what, in anyway, this has to do with gameplay?

 

[ScruffyMcBalls]

I'm not gonna elaborate on what's already been said some... 98 times, as of me writing this. I'll just simply state BULLSHIT!

Get this asshole out of here, no one wants him around anymore. Give the reigns to someone willing to innovate, not some scared child in a businessman's suit.