300's Sequel Stars The Bad Guy

Recommended Videos
Apr 17, 2009
1,751
0
0
They...they do realise Artemisia was a place not a person right? Thats kind of why it was called the Battle of Artemisium. Because thats where it was, not thats who started it.
And why is Themistocles in it? His false side-switch to trick the Persians into battle was Salamis not Artemisium...
 

BrotherRool

New member
Oct 31, 2008
3,833
0
0
It's hard to say that this is going to be good without that small core of real historical epicness that surrounded the first film, but hey this film hasn't been made yet, lets wait and see
 

Rawne1980

New member
Jul 29, 2011
4,143
0
0
300 2 and Titanic 2 .... Films that should never have been thought up.

If two films never needed a bloody sequel it's 300 and Titanic.
 

Username Redacted

New member
Dec 29, 2010
709
0
0
vansau said:
(not to mention the laughably terrible movie <a href=http://www.metacritic.com/movie/the-spirit>The Spirit).
As far as the conversation on Frank Miller goes I feel that this point cannot be emphasized enough. This was a movie so awful that even Scarlet Johansson and Samuel L. Jackson (dressed up as a Nazi no less; for some reason) could make it watchable.
 

KillKill

New member
Sep 6, 2011
97
0
0
TheRussian said:
Let's make sequels to EVERYTHING!!!!
Minecraft 2
Brink 2
Portal 3
Team Fortress 3
(Do you see where I'm going with these?)
I think the video game industry beat you to it...
 

Fbuh

New member
Feb 3, 2009
1,233
0
0
The only opening for a sequel they left was that impending army of 10,000 Spartans gearing up at the end. That's not even a sequel, just a "Fuck You" epilogue.
 

poleboy

New member
May 19, 2008
1,026
0
0
OutrageousEmu said:
Okay, now its time for the sad truth. This is what is called a "movie". It is similar to, but this is very important, not actually a documentary. As such they can take as many liberties as they want with the story and no-one should give a damn because the movie never once claimed to be historically accurate, just a story of Spartans fightin monsters - you know, enjoyment. I'm sorry the mainstream public doesn't particularly share your view that a documentary on the reality of the battle of 300 would be more entertaining than a Spartan Warrior using his spear to bring down a charging Rhino with one shot.
Um... if that's true, why the need for writers, dialogue, plot etc.? I mean, the actors could just make stuff up on the spot, and none of it has to make any sense or relate to any sort of reality, because it's a movie right?
 

Baresark

New member
Dec 19, 2010
3,908
0
0
The_root_of_all_evil said:
I'm not being passive aggressive towards you at all. I didn't say you complained about it not being depicted realistically. Other people made that comment, and it was more of my commentary towards them that made it appear in my response to you. It's pretty strait forward in the accounts that do exist, such as the one found in the book, "50 Battles That Changed the World". Also, as another poster pointed out, they were defending a retreat. That clearly didn't happen in the movie 300. Nor was Persia's armies filled with mutants and freaks. Also, Spartans were not supermen as they are mostly depicted as the movie. Nor do they talk about a mutated man who survived Spartan Eugenics, only to help the Persians overcome them. What more clear separation would you need for this to be considered separate from history?

I didn't question your knowledge of any subject. Just because it's based on real events does not mean that it is not a work of fiction, such as is the case with Maus. It is based on Art Spiegelman's fathers life. But, it strays into a work of artistic fiction when the Jews are depicted as Mice and the Nazi's as cats. If this were not intended, then why did he not just depicted his fathers life with people instead of animals? But, I'm not afraid to say that it kept events much closer to reality than the movie version of 300 did.

All events based off of any 300 spinoffs/sequels are going to be grounded in that movie/comic universe, and not at all grounded in real time. As it was never intended to be, even in Miller's 300 comic.

Also, I don't know if you actually know anything at all about writing Fiction, but the best fiction is based off of real life. That doesn't make it non-fiction, it's still fiction, even if it's based off of the Holocaust or 9/11. I would suggest, if you are interested, that you read novel called, "The First Circle". It's a complete work of fiction but one of the novels by Solzhenitsyn that won him a Nobel Prize for Literature in 1970.

Also, in response to your responses by ChupathingyX, do you take Odysseus as reality? Or do you believe the the aliens from Dr. Who are real? In regards to Holy Terror, that is still fiction, even if it's based on real world views. Heroes in comic books exist to dispatch justice where normal people and the authorities cannot. Captain America fought Hitler in his earliest incarnations because normal people could not stand alone against Nazi forces. In reality, people would love to fly to the rescue of a bunch of miners in South America using their super powers to save them. But they can't, so they are offered fantasies where there are beings that can, and they read them because they like to read about a world like that. None of that defies what is meant by the concept of a fiction "universe".
 

John Horn

New member
Aug 15, 2010
40
0
0
I was very disappointed that the movie industry focused on making this obtuse retardation of the story instead of the real deal. Michael Mann's project "Gates of Fire" got frozen in limbo due to hollywood politics. The battle of Thermopylai is vastly more epic and fascinating than what this "300" movie portrayed. Before I get called out as a "troll", I do know this movie was based on a comic book by Frank Miller, and is only vaguely inspired by history. But the choice was still made. "Gates of Fire" put on hold, "300" made instead. Probably because I know and love the real history, I hated this movie.

But I was prepared for the fictional nature of the movie. I was just watching it as any other movie. Judging the movie on its own merits as a comic-based movie, let me explain my impression of the movie:
It's like a historical action movie directed by Uwe Boll, starring Chuck Norris, Dolph Lundgren, Hulk Hogan, Steven Seagal and Jenna Jameson.
 
Feb 13, 2008
19,429
0
0
Baresark said:
such as is the case with Maus. It is based on Art Spiegelman's fathers life. But, it strays into a work of artistic fiction when the Jews are depicted as Mice and the Nazi's as cats. If this were not intended, then why did he not just depicted his fathers life with people instead of animals?
At a guess, he thought the idea of starved people being forced to dig their own graves before being covered in quicklime would be upsetting, and it's an analogy rather than a re-telling.

All events based off of any 300 spinoffs/sequels are going to be grounded in that movie/comic universe, and not at all grounded in real time. As it was never intended to be, even in Miller's 300 comic.
But the Universe is undefined. It's only defined as our universe, unless Miller says differently at the time. That makes the entire "300" universe a Mary Sue.

Also, I don't know if you actually know anything at all about writing Fiction,
You could look. There's quite a large amount of evidence to say that I've been writing fiction for decades.
Also, in response to your responses by ChupathingyX, do you take Odysseus as reality? Or do you believe the the aliens from Dr. Who are real?
They are a fictional reality based off of ours. Commonly known as stories. There is no such thing as the Odysseus Universe, and the Whoniverse has been defined strongly due to episodic content.
300 touches on neither of these. Neither does Holy Terror. It just borrows from ours when it feels like it.

In reality, people would love to fly to the rescue of a bunch of miners in South America using their super powers to save them.
You're not going to fly down a mine with ease.

But they can't, so they are offered fantasies where there are beings that can, and they read them because they like to read about a world like that.
Do you actually like fiction? Because you put it across as it's just a crutch for the weak.
None of that defies what is meant by the concept of a fiction "universe".
It does when the definition of the universe is "Whatever seems cool". That's the Universe of Lucas and Bay.

Let's take a relevant example: Clash of the Titans (1981) vs (2010)

Both based in our reality. Both around similar times to 300. Both with fantastical elements in. Both with Kraken, Zeus and Medusa; fictional characters.

Why is '81 much more respected than '10?

Simple. 2010 took the idea of what is "cool" and made the Greeks into Atheists, denying the God's existence.

It took our universe (which can contain fantastical/fictional things - look at Santa Claus and Man-flu) and altered a very fundamental rule, without seeing things through.

'81 CotT knows that the entire story hinges on Heroes versus Gods, in fact Zeus's final message states that.
'10 CotT makes them all disbelieve from the start, thus shattering the battle.

That's because the 2010 version used it's own "Universe". It's not a catchword for franchise or IP. It is the way things relate to each other.

300 doesn't have a Universe of it's own. It just has ours with cool bits dotted in.

As does Miller's Batman, Holy Terror or Sin City. That's why he's a hack. Because the only canon that exists that he can draw on is ours. Unless it's a woman, then she's a whore.
 

John Horn

New member
Aug 15, 2010
40
0
0
Pallindromemordnillap said:
They...they do realise Artemisia was a place not a person right? Thats kind of why it was called the Battle of Artemisium. Because thats where it was, not thats who started it.
And why is Themistocles in it? His false side-switch to trick the Persians into battle was Salamis not Artemisium...
Nah. If anything. Themistokles should be portrayed as the mastermind behind both the land battle of Thermopylai and the sea battle of Artemision. Themistokles was in effect the Field Marshall, organizing the preparations for both battles, and doing the overall coordination.
 

TJC

New member
Aug 28, 2011
398
0
0
I... waht... I can't...

I AM DISAPPOINT, HOLLYWOOD!

I mean... I didn't need another piece of evidence that Hollywood is led by exploitative, uncreative, money-grabbing fucks who tell the quality of an idea by the amount of cocksucking service it provided...

but this is... just...
D:
 

Baresark

New member
Dec 19, 2010
3,908
0
0
The_root_of_all_evil said:
LoL, right up front, I don't think fiction is bad at all, as a matter of fact, it's my most read subject matter. I have done some writing myself and short fiction is my baby. That being said, you clearly have more writing experience than I do. I wouldn't deny that, but we are still allowed to have different views on it, it's the spice of life you know.

Also, I agree that Frank Miller is a hack. The only draw I ever had to his work as a comic book dork was his art style. His writing seems to be considered avant-garde by a great many people, and I can't agree with that. As a funny aside, I actually used to date a girl who was at an after party that Frank Miller was at, post 300 success. He was a drunken lech who practically drooled all over her perfectly formed breasts whenever he got the chance till she actually left the party.

I think Miller did define it as a comic universe. But it's a Millerverse, so that possibly hardly counts. I guess this would include anything with "The Spirit" and also "Sin City". I felt that his Batman work (at least in the 80's, not sure if he has done anything with that recently) was probably his best work. It was gritty (like most comics in the 80's) but it made one of the most memorable battles in comic book history. As a fanboy, I like it. Though, I haven't gone on to re-read it after my own writing experiences. I have the issue buried deep down in a lot of boxes.

All the greatest works of fiction are still drawn from reality though. And I can't change my mind on that. It's the foundation of my writing classes, and it's the only way to make fiction that can touch people on a deep level. I once wrote a story for a final and based it off of my grandfather. It was 5% really him, 95% made up but it managed to get me a standing ovation from my teachers and half of my class. But, perhaps the reading was part of it as well.

I was struggling with why the new Clash of the Titans sucked. I thought it was because of nostalgia (not usually like me). Ultimately I settled on just about everything being wrong with the movie. It was utterly forgettable. I don't really care for Sam Worthington. This is gonna sound petty of me, but no one really walked around with buzz cut hair during that time period. But, I do like your breakdown on more story based level. Nothing like changing the whole fundamental concept of a story to ruin it. Now I'm gonna have to re-watch it.
 
Feb 13, 2008
19,429
0
0
Baresark said:
LoL, right up front, I don't think fiction is bad at all, as a matter of fact, it's my most read subject matter. I have done some writing myself and short fiction is my baby. That being said, you clearly have more writing experience than I do. I wouldn't deny that, but we are still allowed to have different views on it, it's the spice of life you know.
Oh, I'm glad that I do have people to disagree with. Makes me question my own views.
Also, I agree that Frank Miller is a hack.
So many people do, but like a lot of the directors/producers, he keeps getting away with outright racism/sexism in the disguise of "fiction". Which is why it's such a sore point with me.
But it's a Millerverse,
Yeah. I can go with that. A Millerverse, not quite a universe.
All the greatest works of fiction are still drawn from reality though.
Oh, they have to be. The mark of a really good writer is one that understands why reality is like that, and alters it. Odysseus's Trojan Horse, or the Ironsides understand their place in the universe as is. They're totally fantastical, but they come with rules: like the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus or Fox News.

When you add something just to be cool though, without understanding the changes that makes to the universe - like Miller did with Batman - then you're going down the Stephanie Meyer or LOST route; where things happen purely for the story and the reader/watcher is conned.

But, I do like your breakdown on more story based level. Nothing like changing the whole fundamental concept of a story to ruin it. Now I'm gonna have to re-watch it.
Cheers, it was cobbled together from a lot of critics I saw - but I think it strikes at the most of the re-makes around.
Mission Impossible succeeded as a re-make because it just re-started everything, and while it's reality based, it's anything but realistic.
The Italian Job(remake) or The Pink Panther(remake) fails for the reverse reason; they were never based in our reality at all - just in war films/farce.

Good to finish this conversation on a positive note though :) *shakes hands*
(Occasionally I do get a little ranty :) )
 

Shamanic Rhythm

New member
Dec 6, 2009
1,653
0
0
OutrageousEmu said:
Shamanic Rhythm said:
Are you even vaguely serious?

Let's imagine you went to see Downfall, and instead of Hitler committing suicide in his bunker, a younger, muscular Stalin personally kills Hitler when he knocks him off his giant Tiger tank with a single grenade. Because that would basically be the modern day equivalent of 300.

Now imagine said someone wanted to make a sequel to this.
Less than a hundred years ago, Hitler killed 9 million civilians, most of whom have direct blood relations alive today who can name the relatives who were killed. If anyone can name their direct blood relative who died at the battle of Thermopalyae, then you may have a point.

You can't compare a recent atrocity to one that happened 480 years before the birth of Christ. Because the difference there is "desecrating the memory of my relatives who were slaughtered" - i.e., its literally personal.
I think you completely missed the point. It's not about whether there's any atrocity being committed, it's about the fact that the historical story itself is interesting and has enough gravitas that it doesn't need to be embellished in the way you're suggesting. I mean, the Battle of Thermopylae has all the elements of a good story: betrayal, sacrifice, one or two particularly witty lines, the fate of several cities in the balance, a despot's megalomania, etc.

But all that's too boring for the MTV generation, apparently. So it's perfectly okay to throw historical accuracy out the window and ramp up the sexy action violence, because kids these days will walk out of the theatre if someone doesn't get killed every 3 seconds.
 

Shamanic Rhythm

New member
Dec 6, 2009
1,653
0
0
OutrageousEmu said:
Yes, how dare they not want to go to the movies to learn something about military history, and not appreciate droning retellings of ancient history.

Were you raised by a fucking British Headmaster? Also, I don't recall the Harryhausen movies being accurate either. Musta missed the skeleton warriors in ancient greece.

No-one apart from you has ever thought a historically accurate and dry retelling of miulitary history would be entertaining, meaning the audience for that movie is you and you alone, ever.



The reason World War II is treated with respect is entirely because of how fresh in our minds it is. If you think differently, you have an understanding of the concept of emotion on par with the Borg collective. But oh, I guess I can't mention them, as they're not historically accurate, and are thus just "sexy action for the MTV generation."

If you at any point favour historical accuracy over entertaining your audience, you have officially a complete failure at making movies. This is pretty much baseline moviemaking ideas.

Also, MTV generation? The fuck? http://xkcd.com/973/
Two things:
a) If you believe that the story of Thermopylae as we know it is "dry" and "droning" and any movie made of it without the comic book embellishments of 300 would a "complete failure", then it kind of proves my point.
b) I think World War II stopped being treated with quote unquote respect around the time that the Nazis were being driven back by magic in Bedknobs and Broomsticks.
 

AD-Stu

New member
Oct 13, 2011
1,287
0
0
Sounds like a pretty horrible idea to me. Ignoring the story side of things and just looking at it from a marketing perspective there has to be dozens of other properties with greater brand awareness that would make more sense to work with - as the article correctly notes, the original 300 movie was made a few years back now.

Smells like a straight-to-DVD quality idea to me.