3DS is Watching You: Activity-Logging and Anti-Piracy Features

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Not really. If you can't play it because it won't function, it is broken. That Nintendo can fix it doesn't mean it wasn't broken.

Fine.

However, they WARNED you that they'd "break" (disable) it if you break the law with it. I can back that.

If Ford warns you that they will remotely break or disable your car if you go over the speed limit, it would still be wrong (and illegal I imagine) if they actually did it. They can say whatever they want to the press, they can type whatever they want in the EULA but when they actually start bricking 3DS's they will be in the wrong and likely sued.

For speeding, yes.

For containing illegal property, I imagine they could get the law on their side for that.

So can Nintendo.

I don't think so, corporations cannot take the law into their own hands.

I still can't muster up sympathy for the bricked, because THEY are just as guilty of lawbreaking as Nintendo might be.

Because using an action replay or installing homebrew software is clearly breaking the law. I have a homebrew enabled Wii, which I use to space shift media files from the computer in the livingroom to the TV in my bedroom, and also use to watch Shoutcast TV on. I do not use it to pirate videogames. Does this make me a criminal? Because that's almost certainly in the list of things that will get Nintendo to brick your 3DS.

OT: Nintendo has absolutely lost a sale with this one. I was really excited about the 3DS, but I'll be getting an iPod touch or an NGP instead now, unless they eventually release a model that doesn't pull this crap. These game companies are really pissing me off with all the crap they do to their customers.

Sorry man, you've been drowned in scum.

Pirates far outweigh homebrewers. Companies will stop taking such defensive measures when homebrewers become more relevant than pirates. Which they never will.

It's still a step forward, as this type of anti-piracy measure doesn't really affect a normal "electric smiles machine" customer... which comprises at least 85% of the market.

If at least 85% of the market is made up of people who use the system for its intended purpose, why even bother to go after that 15% that doesn't? Especially when a small portion of that 15% is doing something legal, the rest are going to find a way around the inexcusable DRM, and the DRM in question is breaking the law on its own? Because to paraphrase Alan Grant, pirates will find a way.

Step One: Introduce DRM, force contract-signing to acquire 3DS to avoid lawsuits.
Step Two: Warn public of what DRM entails, affects 15% of market.
Step Three: Alienate ~5% of the market.
Step Four: Delay pirates by weeks or months (handhelds are notoriously difficult to crack as far as I can tell), force legal purchases from remaining 10% of pirating market until crack occurs.
Step Five: Profit.

Step five wasn't a joke either, that's why they keep doing this stuff. They haven't shot themselves in the foot, they've simply accepted they can't win 100% of the time.

In this case, though, it'll be weeks or months after system launch, and then every game that gets released from that point on will be possible to pirate consequence free. I don't know where you got the idea that handhelds are notoriously hard to crack; they're actually notoriously easy to use for piracy and homebrew.

 

[subtlefuge]

In order for the firmware approach to be fair to customers, they need to actually add interesting features and content with each update. If they just try to block piracy, then they're only pissing on their fanbase.

Even the carrot approach is getting old, this kind of DRM is not wanted. What are they gonna give anyway?

I know, but you can't blame a company for trying to secure its own interests. I just expect to be compensated for my time and inconvenience of installing a patch.

 

[Scars Unseen]

It doesn't exactly seem intrusive. If you don't pirate games, then this won't affect you. I don't see why people are getting worked up over it...

It actually affects everybody, pirate or no. Where do you think the always-on wifi is getting power from? That's right. The same place the rest of the unit gets power from.

Pro Tip: Pirates will get longer battery life than you.

 

[SH4DOWSL4Y3R]

well this sucks, isn't it legal to have a copy of any game you have legitimately bought? i have a flashcard, but only to save having to shuffle through the multitude of games I've bought when i want to play a specific game while stuck in a car packed with other people.

oh, and the only reason I've ever had copies of games that I've never bought is when i was deeply unsure about the game so I've tried a ROM of it as a demo, then if it's a worthwhile game, I'll go out and buy it the minute i have the expendable cash to do so, and delete the fake(of course if it's no good i'll delete it too).
I don't ever want to pay $70 for an absolutely terrible game Again and find out that since I've opened it can't get my money back(a prime example being the phantom hourglass, i hate stylus-only controls with a burning passion). and since I'm not made of money this is usually a nasty "punch to the face" for me.

also, some games are NEVER released here in australia and as a last resort i have had to download them. Exhibit A being Soma Bringer, one of my all time favourite ds games. as far as I'm aware, an English version of it is non-existent, but if I found out there was an English version i would search all over for a copy and buy it.

altogether, the whole anti piracy thing doesn't bother me so much, as i'm just gonna have to be really damn careful when i pick my games(and watch what I'm doing on the inter-webs) . more the notion that I'm probably gonna have to buy yet another damn DS just to play the next new golden sun/pokemon/whatever else I wanna play. i swear i grow far less content with Nintendo each time they release another silly console full of gimmicks. oh and the whole constant wireless kinda sucks, takes the point out of it being a hand-held if you ask me, waste of battery life.

all in all, i have nothing against flash cards as long as they're used in a LEGAL manner.e.g. homebrew games, and back ups of games you have actually bought(which as far as i know is legal).

just my opinion, don't go raging at me cause you have nothing better to do than try and start fight's on the net. that being said, i have nothing against a little constructive criticism.

 

[Tomany2]

I'm just going to sit back, and watch my sister play her 3DS until she gets a false positive on it, and then they brick it... Just like they did with our Wii.

Than once it is bricked under false accusations, we are yet again paid 3000 $ and given a replacement wii after a lawsuit.

Oh how I do love Nintendo.

 

[lacktheknack]

Not really. If you can't play it because it won't function, it is broken. That Nintendo can fix it doesn't mean it wasn't broken.

Fine.

However, they WARNED you that they'd "break" (disable) it if you break the law with it. I can back that.

If Ford warns you that they will remotely break or disable your car if you go over the speed limit, it would still be wrong (and illegal I imagine) if they actually did it. They can say whatever they want to the press, they can type whatever they want in the EULA but when they actually start bricking 3DS's they will be in the wrong and likely sued.

For speeding, yes.

For containing illegal property, I imagine they could get the law on their side for that.

So can Nintendo.

I don't think so, corporations cannot take the law into their own hands.

I still can't muster up sympathy for the bricked, because THEY are just as guilty of lawbreaking as Nintendo might be.

Because using an action replay or installing homebrew software is clearly breaking the law. I have a homebrew enabled Wii, which I use to space shift media files from the computer in the livingroom to the TV in my bedroom, and also use to watch Shoutcast TV on. I do not use it to pirate videogames. Does this make me a criminal? Because that's almost certainly in the list of things that will get Nintendo to brick your 3DS.

OT: Nintendo has absolutely lost a sale with this one. I was really excited about the 3DS, but I'll be getting an iPod touch or an NGP instead now, unless they eventually release a model that doesn't pull this crap. These game companies are really pissing me off with all the crap they do to their customers.

Sorry man, you've been drowned in scum.

Pirates far outweigh homebrewers. Companies will stop taking such defensive measures when homebrewers become more relevant than pirates. Which they never will.

It's still a step forward, as this type of anti-piracy measure doesn't really affect a normal "electric smiles machine" customer... which comprises at least 85% of the market.

If at least 85% of the market is made up of people who use the system for its intended purpose, why even bother to go after that 15% that doesn't? Especially when a small portion of that 15% is doing something legal, the rest are going to find a way around the inexcusable DRM, and the DRM in question is breaking the law on its own? Because to paraphrase Alan Grant, pirates will find a way.

Step One: Introduce DRM, force contract-signing to acquire 3DS to avoid lawsuits.
Step Two: Warn public of what DRM entails, affects 15% of market.
Step Three: Alienate ~5% of the market.
Step Four: Delay pirates by weeks or months (handhelds are notoriously difficult to crack as far as I can tell), force legal purchases from remaining 10% of pirating market until crack occurs.
Step Five: Profit.

Step five wasn't a joke either, that's why they keep doing this stuff. They haven't shot themselves in the foot, they've simply accepted they can't win 100% of the time.

In this case, though, it'll be weeks or months after system launch, and then every game that gets released from that point on will be possible to pirate consequence free. I don't know where you got the idea that handhelds are notoriously hard to crack; they're actually notoriously easy to use for piracy and homebrew.

Never underestimate the value of what can be sold NOW. Really, you'd be shocked how much even a percent change can make a difference.

If you spend $100,000,000 releasing a product, you'd want the absolute maximum return out of it as well, even if it meant that 5% of your market would rant about you on internet forums. (Note that I pulled that number out of the air to make a point).

 

[fundayz]

Or people who don't want Nintendo knowing everywhere they go, and everything they do. I guess you are perfectly okay with spyware on your computer right? You okay with the government tracking every move you make? I mean only guilty people have something to hide. You wouldn't ever not tell someone about something because it embarrassed you right?

I already realize the answer to these questions. You like everyone else appreciates a bit of privacy, which means tracking people so you can controll what they do with property they purchased is just a bit to far. Okay a bit more then a bit to far, but you get the idea.

Nintendos stealin mai naughty secreetz!!!!!!!


Seriously, take your tin foil hat off. The 3DS can't track where you go or what you do, only what you do to/with it.

People gotta realize that technology is a COMMODITY. It is not a necessity nor a right. Companies have the right impose whatever rules they want on their customers, and the customers have the right to choose to buy the product or not.

Now if the companies try to impose rules not expressed or agreed to at purchase then yes, the customer has every right to whatever they want, but since the 3DS will launch with this agreement there is nothing anyone can do about it.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Now if the companies try to impose rules not expressed or agreed to at purchase

That is what nearly every EULA, including this one does. There are very few EULAs that don't do this, and almost all of them involve digital copies of software sold online. It's why game companies never keep up their end of the EULA; it's just a scare tactic to keep the customers in line, it isn't legally binding at all. Valve keeps up their end because the contract actually is made upon purchase if you buy online, and they legally have to. I'd argue that boxed games that use Steamworks have an EULA that is just as invalid, though.

 

[Darkauthor81]

I was in a used game store recently. A family was looking at an old, used, psp. The teller was telling them how easy it would be to hack it and get all games for free. He even wrote down web addresses to where they could find hacking programs and info when they bought the psp.

Rampant piracy all but killed the psp. I don't blame nintendo for worrying the same thing might happen to them.

 

[Korolev]

This does... appear excessive. Especially if there's no way to turn it off. I acknowledge Nintendo's right to fight piracy, sure, but I'm not quite sure we need this sort of thing.

In the end, it won't matter. It's only a matter of time until someone figures out a way around this. And what if you live in an area without a WiFi connection? How would it be "always online" then?

A good effort Nintendo, but it won't stop the pirates. Nothing can stop them right now.

 

[GamingAwesome1]

I have always liked games that log my playtime. :3

 

[Arkley]

I don't know if someone has pointed this out already (I don't feel like reading all five pages), but this won't deter pirates for long.

People who produce the kind of softmods necessary to play pirated games will know all of this. Once they get into the device, they'll know how and when the firmware performs legitimacy checks. They will produce a modified firmware that disables them, or that functions with patches for ROMs that feed the check a false negative. At the very least, they will be able to disable automatic updating.

There is very little that can be done from Nintendo's end to counter this, too. If a softmod that circumvents the legitimacy checks and disables auto-updates does become available, all Nintendo can do is package the update into new games that demand it be installed before they can be played. Even this just leaves pirates with the entire pre-update library of games to play while modders get to work on circumventing the measures of the latest update, buying Nintendo nothing but a little time, for a handful of games.

 

[theheroofaction]

Keep one thing in mind though, even If it could tell your location, all it identifies you as is user#3,216,884.

Although Arkley does have a point, it won't stop anybody for very long.

 

[Captain Pirate]

I don't particularly care. I won't pirate on it.
Still, I don't think it's legal.

Anyway, I still want one.
I mean... it's in 3D!!!!

 

[Tim_Buoy]

How bad is it that it's starting to look like Microsoft is the only company out there NOT trying to actively fuck their customer base? Nintendo and their Big Brother DS by watching and recording everything you do, Sony and their crusade against GeoHot by confiscating peoples identities from around the world.

I swore a long time ago I'd NEVER get an xbox, and now it looks like they're my only option, at least until every xbox 720 requires a DNA sample to prove ownership of a game.

that might actually be interesting do i get to choose the source of dna that might lead to funny instore moments