8th grade Girls Attack/Strip 11-Year-Old Boy

[Tdc2182]

Noted, though I wasn't joking.

I understood that before commenting, that's why I said I didn't agree with your post. I was just saying any actual argument with said person won't get you anywhere.

It seems like people want blood whenever they see things they don't like. And whilst I don't suspect that the three culprits in the matter will receive due penalty for their actions, I find it difficult (both on an ethical front, and a case of available resources) that the judicial authorities could manage bullying/fighting between kids as well.

I mean, lets say that the punishment for this crime mirrored that of assault; whether male or female perpetrators.

You're then creating a powerful precedent for others to file charges (whether greater, equal, or lesser "damages") for police intervention as well.

I personally do not see how any Western government could manage instances of fighting amongst children (not even including, as you say, managing effective correctional facilities for juvenile offenders).

Well, life's difficult. Stopping people from distributing heroin (I really hope you're against hardcore drugs here, or else this argument is kaput) is pretty hard, but should we stop trying? No, because any small intervention will most likely make a positive influence on a group of people.

The schools will most likely have a fucking terrible time trying to enforce this, but how could you say that we shouldn't make any attempts from stopping this kind of shit? Just because you haven't been on earth for as long as somebody else doesn't mean you should get away with it.

Ever see that Chappelle skit "how young is fifteen really?"

Pretty funny, albeit inappropriate and irresponsible skit. But he did bring up a good point. If a fifteen year old can choose to commit actions that would send an older person to jail, than why should they not be punished at all? They aren't that much younger than a technical "adult"

Setting an imaginary line at 18 years old does not work. How does turning that age magically make you responsible of any crimes that you commit? No doubt that someone who is still going through puberty like this shouldn't be sentenced to prison, but at least a certain type of probation? I don't think that would be unethical.

From both a collective social good, and for the sake of general sanity when it came to legal action concerning children, instead of just assuming parental discipline won't work ... maybe we should trust to it and hope that parents will be inclined to punish their children appropriately.

Unless you'rewilling to send a tenth of your adolescent population to JDCs, or have a CoL officially Wrist-slap an individual ... And I fail to see how that makes for a better society.

That is swaying the issue away from the boy who was attacked (sorry if that word seems to inflate the situation). I understand that we shouldn't be full of bloodlust, but those girls need to pay. And entrusting their punishment in the parents who may or may not care at all? No way.

Plus, what is gonna happen to these girls? Three months of grounding and being forced to apologize? Fuck that.

It's a parental responsibility. And I don't really see any reason why it should be anything else (unless it happens on school propertyy in which case it is both parental and the school's responsibility to discipline the individual/s).

Yet again, how young are these girls? An eight year old does this to a six year old, yup, that's parental responsibilty. Hell, it's almost cute. But in the midst of teenage turmoil and possibly the worst time of teenagers lives, you can't just get off with a slap of the wrist.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Well, life's difficult. Stopping people from distributing heroin (I really hope you're against hardcore drugs here, or else this argument is kaput) is pretty hard, but should we stop trying? No, because any small intervention will most likely make a positive influence on a group of people.

I agree... in the case of drugs ... or murder ... or larceny. but in the case of a couple of kids fighting? Lets assume that there was no video footage of this (thus no evidence of it happening, other than the child's words) ... what then?

Whilst I'm not saying the words should be dismissed, but whatever happened to "Okay, I'll talk to the parents of these girls"? See ... when it comes to kids fighting, I'm largely apathetic. If only because any attempts to prosecute it on any level representing a judicial action is going to be difficult.

I also don't believe in punishing a person more because you caught them than you would punish anybody else for the same crime.

Impartiality goes both way, both the victim and the offender. And when people lose sight of the supreme nature of what law should be (a shield first and foremost) that is when you start heading into the realms of the draconian state.

The schools will most likely have a fucking terrible time trying to enforce this, but how could you say that we shouldn't make any attempts from stopping this kind of shit? Just because you haven't been on earth for as long as somebody else doesn't mean you should get away with it.

Correct, but at the same time moderation and temperance is key. Children ae little shits. Egocentric, maniacal beings of pure devastation and psychological sabotage. And to be honest, I got way worse than this kid in highschool. Many of the people in my grade did. Atr nearly the same age as he (think 12, instealf of 11, and think 17 year rugby playing aggressors)

Imagine being 12 and being set upon by seniors 5/6 years your elder? For an entire school year. But at the same time, I've gotten over them ... everybody I know has. We even used to joke and reminisce about it in our final years.

You're never going to get rid of violence between youth groups. Not saying you shouldn't try, but it's also worth noting that it doesn't last forever, and you get over it. Children bounce back in a day or two and they're fine.

You can quote all the statistics you want about sadness, and suicide, and depression, and poor school performances ... but frankly I think alot of that is a little over-blown because most of us recovered with nary nightmares, derangements, or sociopathies. May sound cold, but children are the furthest thing from innocent. If you believe otherwise, you must have senility and forgotten about who you were as a person during those years.

I'm not saying people aren't traumatized by poor circumstance. But at the same time, you can blame the person who died because a person sneezed on them in the subway and they got sicker and sicker without doing anything about it because it was another's fault for giving it to them in the first place.

World can't operate like that in any other regards as to simply 'toughing it out'. Girls, boys; homosexual, heterosexual. Childhood is hard and mean.

Though I certainly think it's much more unhealthy to shield children from everything ... even to the point of removing their privacy with security cameras in schools and police officers being called to every fight to apprehend belligerents.

But teenage violence and bullying doesn't go on. It ends eventually. And you end up walking tall in the school by yr 10+ and doing all the things that people would have beat you down for (like displaying independant character, and aesthetic self-determination .... and all those lovely things you were afraid to once show) now are unchallenged due to you wielding the tempered sword of fortitude.

Can't remark on the US nature of schooling given it's much different than here. Personally I like the idea of no middle school. Sure it may mean increased risk to being pummelled by people twice your height and three times your weight-class, but it also allows you to make lasting contacts and social cliques that help balance out possible aggressive tyrannies.

Ever see that Chappelle skit "how young is fifteen really?"

Pretty funny, albeit inappropriate and irresponsible skit. But he did bring up a good point. If a fifteen year old can choose to commit actions that would send an older person to jail, than why should they not be punished at all? They aren't that much younger than a technical "adult"

Setting an imaginary line at 18 years old does not work. How does turning that age magically make you responsible of any crimes that you commit? No doubt that someone who is still going through puberty like this shouldn't be sentenced to prison, but at least a certain type of probation? I don't think that would be unethical.

No, I shall look it up. though not ahuge fan of Chapelle ... but I shall endeavour to find it online.

And yes, I agree once more that 18 seems quite arbitrary. But at the same time are you then going to reduce it to 15 and say "because most kids know what they're doing is wrong at 15"? for me I think 16 is most appropriate. But I don't think any of us are properly equipped to discuss this avenue of the legalities of juvenile crime.

15 years seems inethical to me ... maybe perhaps 14-15 years and you get a probationary period where if you commit another trangression of similar nature or worse, then you go to Juvie?

In Western Australia) they had (still do?) the three strikes system. Not sure if they got rid of it. Though people were up in arms about it 7/8 years ago when the third strike a kid got was for stealing a pencil and notebook from a stationary store. So it doesn't work in alot of cases and just seems to punish the poor as opposed to the violent or truly criminal.

That is swaying the issue away from the boy who was attacked (sorry if that word seems to inflate the situation). I understand that we shouldn't be full of bloodlust, but those girls need to pay. And entrusting their punishment in the parents who may or may not care at all? No way.

They need to be punished ... they don't need to pay. There's a reason why people should avoid (hypocritical I know) emotive words when deliberating on the merits of perceived social transgressions.

But you have to remember that parental punishment is what it must be. A society can (or should) never promote that the primary caretakership of a child and their social decorum is a matter best regulated by the State. I know there are alot of irresponsible parents out there, but by the same token we can't say they are inept at properly disciplining their child in, what I believe, to be a trifling incidence of non-schoolyard bullying.

There is nothing to suggest that the girls will do it again, there is nothing to suggest that it was merely anything more than a hazing. And in my opinion, it wasn't even that bad an attack ... (as I said, suffered way worse in school and I certainly wasn't the only one).

Parents, not the State, are the primary educators of their children when it comes to social cohesion.

Plus, what is gonna happen to these girls? Three months of grounding and being forced to apologize? Fuck that.

When I I had two teeth damage, a major concussion and a trip to the hospital due to a senior with a cricket bat, all I got was two weeks of soup and all he got was an expulsion and a misdemeanour assault charge (however he was 17) for what witnesses at the scene claimed was an attempt to put me in a wheelchair by the offender.

Nice guy.

Point is kids get over it and they bounce back. Keep telling him he's a victim and he'll start believing it and then it's game over.

Yet again, how young are these girls? An eight year old does this to a six year old, yup, that's parental responsibilty. Hell, it's almost cute. But in the midst of teenage turmoil and possibly the worst time of teenagers lives, you can't just get off with a slap of the wrist.

Ehhhh ... I still think 'kids will be kids'. As I said, ramifications for calling judicial action on every incidence of children fighting ... not sure if it's worth creatuing a draconian state with juvenile cases of 'assault'.

Unless it is something that would guarantee a felony conviction (grand larceny, rape, murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, criminal negligence leading to manslaughter, etc etc) then I think a probationary period is more effectual before just taking them to juvie.

Edit: Scratch that... badly worded.... obviously murder or attempted murder or mansluaghter requires hefty punishment, but I think you got what I meant x.x

 

[Tdc2182]

Well, life's difficult. Stopping people from distributing heroin (I really hope you're against hardcore drugs here, or else this argument is kaput) is pretty hard, but should we stop trying? No, because any small intervention will most likely make a positive influence on a group of people.

I agree... in the case of drugs ... or murder ... or larceny. but in the case of a couple of kids fighting? Lets assume that there was no video footage of this (thus no evidence of it happening, other than the child's words) ... what then?

Whilst I'm not saying the words should be dismissed, but whatever happened to "Okay, I'll talk to the parents of these girls"? See ... when it comes to kids fighting, I'm largely apathetic. If only because any attempts to prosecute it on any level representing a judicial action is going to be difficult.

I also don't believe in punishing a person more because you caught them than you would punish anybody else for the same crime.

Impartiality goes both way, both the victim and the offender. And when people lose sight of the supreme nature of what law should be (a shield first and foremost) that is when you start heading into the realms of the draconian state.

The schools will most likely have a fucking terrible time trying to enforce this, but how could you say that we shouldn't make any attempts from stopping this kind of shit? Just because you haven't been on earth for as long as somebody else doesn't mean you should get away with it.

Correct, but at the same time moderation and temperance is key. Children ae little shits. Egocentric, maniacal beings of pure devastation and psychological sabotage. And to be honest, I got way worse than this kid in highschool. Many of the people in my grade did. Atr nearly the same age as he (think 12, instealf of 11, and think 17 year rugby playing aggressors)

Imagine being 12 and being set upon by seniors 5/6 years your elder? For an entire school year. But at the same time, I've gotten over them ... everybody I know has. We even used to joke and reminisce about it in our final years.

You're never going to get rid of violence between youth groups. Not saying you shouldn't try, but it's also worth noting that it doesn't last forever, and you get over it. Children bounce back in a day or two and they're fine.

You can quote all the statistics you want about sadness, and suicide, and depression, and poor school performances ... but frankly I think alot of that is a little over-blown because most of us recovered with nary nightmares, derangements, or sociopathies. May sound cold, but children are the furthest thing from innocent. If you believe otherwise, you must have senility and forgotten about who you were as a person during those years.

I'm not saying people aren't traumatized by poor circumstance. But at the same time, you can blame the person who died because a person sneezed on them in the subway and they got sicker and sicker without doing anything about it because it was another's fault for giving it to them in the first place.

World can't operate like that in any other regards as to simply 'toughing it out'. Girls, boys; homosexual, heterosexual. Childhood is hard and mean.

Though I certainly think it's much more unhealthy to shield children from everything ... even to the point of removing their privacy with security cameras in schools and police officers being called to every fight to apprehend belligerents.

But teenage violence and bullying doesn't go on. It ends eventually. And you end up walking tall in the school by yr 10+ and doing all the things that people would have beat you down for (like displaying independant character, and aesthetic self-determination .... and all those lovely things you were afraid to once show) now are unchallenged due to you wielding the tempered sword of fortitude.

Can't remark on the US nature of schooling given it's much different than here. Personally I like the idea of no middle school. Sure it may mean increased risk to being pummelled by people twice your height and three times your weight-class, but it also allows you to make lasting contacts and social cliques that help balance out possible aggressive tyrannies.

Ever see that Chappelle skit "how young is fifteen really?"

Pretty funny, albeit inappropriate and irresponsible skit. But he did bring up a good point. If a fifteen year old can choose to commit actions that would send an older person to jail, than why should they not be punished at all? They aren't that much younger than a technical "adult"

Setting an imaginary line at 18 years old does not work. How does turning that age magically make you responsible of any crimes that you commit? No doubt that someone who is still going through puberty like this shouldn't be sentenced to prison, but at least a certain type of probation? I don't think that would be unethical.

No, I shall look it up. though not ahuge fan of Chapelle ... but I shall endeavour to find it online.

And yes, I agree once more that 18 seems quite arbitrary. But at the same time are you then going to reduce it to 15 and say "because most kids know what they're doing is wrong at 15"? for me I think 16 is most appropriate. But I don't think any of us are properly equipped to discuss this avenue of the legalities of juvenile crime.

15 years seems inethical to me ... maybe perhaps 14-15 years and you get a probationary period where if you commit another trangression of similar nature or worse, then you go to Juvie?

In Western Australia) they had (still do?) the three strikes system. Not sure if they got rid of it. Though people were up in arms about it 7/8 years ago when the third strike a kid got was for stealing a pencil and notebook from a stationary store. So it doesn't work in alot of cases and just seems to punish the poor as opposed to the violent or truly criminal.

That is swaying the issue away from the boy who was attacked (sorry if that word seems to inflate the situation). I understand that we shouldn't be full of bloodlust, but those girls need to pay. And entrusting their punishment in the parents who may or may not care at all? No way.

They need to be punished ... they don't need to pay. There's a reason why people should avoid (hypocritical I know) emotive words when deliberating on the merits of perceived social transgressions.

But you have to remember that parental punishment is what it must be. A society can (or should) never promote that the primary caretakership of a child and their social decorum is a matter best regulated by the State. I know there are alot of irresponsible parents out there, but by the same token we can't say they are inept at properly disciplining their child in, what I believe, to be a trifling incidence of non-schoolyard bullying.

There is nothing to suggest that the girls will do it again, there is nothing to suggest that it was merely anything more than a hazing. And in my opinion, it wasn't even that bad an attack ... (as I said, suffered way worse in school and I certainly wasn't the only one).

Parents, not the State, are the primary educators of their children when it comes to social cohesion.

Plus, what is gonna happen to these girls? Three months of grounding and being forced to apologize? Fuck that.

When I I had two teeth damage, a major concussion and a trip to the hospital due to a senior with a cricket bat, all I got was two weeks of soup and all he got was an expulsion and a misdemeanour assault charge (however he was 17) for what witnesses at the scene claimed was an attempt to put me in a wheelchair by the offender.

Nice guy.

Point is kids get over it and they bounce back. Keep telling him he's a victim and he'll start believing it and then it's game over.

Yet again, how young are these girls? An eight year old does this to a six year old, yup, that's parental responsibilty. Hell, it's almost cute. But in the midst of teenage turmoil and possibly the worst time of teenagers lives, you can't just get off with a slap of the wrist.

Ehhhh ... I still think 'kids will be kids'. As I said, ramifications for calling judicial action on every incidence of children fighting ... not sure if it's worth creatuing a draconian state with juvenile cases of 'assault'.

Unless it is something that would guarantee a felony conviction (grand larceny, rape, murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, criminal negligence leading to manslaughter, etc etc) then I think a probationary period is more effectual before just taking them to juvie.

Edit: Scratch that... badly worded.... obviously murder or attempted murder or mansluaghter requires hefty punishment, but I think you got what I meant x.x

Hmm... You do drive a good point for the most part, mainly because I am really for kids needing to learn to deal with the "highschool drama" part of their lives, and not let that completely take charge of your life (hell, I'm still in the process of telling myself it wasn't that big of a deal).

However, I do think something needs to be done with these three girls at the very least. Older kids have no right picking on people 3 years younger than them, especially ones who have hit puberty.

But you're right. What can you really do without causing a rather harsh movement?

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Christ, we didn't break into the car and drove it ... like I said, we moved it. Physically moved it ... we literally lifted the thing and moved it ... there was over a dozen of us at any one time and it was a bug. Atmost each individual was probably only carrying like 15 kilos.

So you physically moved it? What if someone was hurt? What if you dropped the car? What if someone slipped and the car fell on them? How is this not dangerous. How many you were and at what age you did it is irrelevant. What you did was extremely dangerous. Frankly, you should've been forced to visit the school councilour.

Shame and depression. Sounds like school ^_^

To be fair, all kids go through this ... and in 5 months time it will be forgotten. Old news. Kids are dynamic like that, it's adults that hold grudges and grind axes.

Sounds like school? They fucking undressed him in the middle of the goddamn street, filmed it then posted it on the internet all while he was crying and begging to be let alone. Let's ignore the double standard present here, the fact that they assaulted him in the middle of the street and that he was begging to be left alone all the while being filmed and laughed at. How do you think this kid will deal with this? Do you think he'll just shrug it off? Do you think his peers will shrug it off?

Depression is NOT normal during teenagehood. Angst is a completely different thing, but being depressed is an extremely dangerous state of mind that could lead to suicide. Depression is NEVER normal, no matter what age group you're in. Just because they intended it as a joke does not justify those girl's behaivour. I'm not saying they should be criminally charged with assault and attempted rape with premeditation. I'm saying their parents should be fined for not keeping their children in check. Besides that, all the assailants should be forced to visit the school counselor. This is not normal behaviour and should not be treated as such.

Whether or not his peers forget about the event is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, this video is on the internet and can be accessed at any time. Besides that, the kid could have lasting mental issues following this specific event and the bullying that will surely follow in school.

I'm sorry, but I take bullying way more seriously than you or most people. Frankly, the expression "it's just kids being kids" disgusts me".

But these are kids, not adults. Adults should know better.

Which is why their parents should be fined and put under watch by child protection services with regular visits from a social worker done every week or so. The kids should also be punished for what they have done. Each one of them should be forced to apologize to the kid. At the same time, they should also be forced to do community work for at least 4 months. This sort of behaviour is unnacceptable and should not be tolerated. If it was up to me, I'd undress those 6 girls in the middle of the street and let them stand there whilst someone pins them to the ground. The only way you can understand you were wrong is if you experience what your victim experienced as well.

See people throw around this term of 'criminal' ... but how exactly does this case differ to, say, a bully beating up a person every week after school for 3 months straight? Bullies are bullies, and everybody is bullied atleast once.

So because everyone gets bullying at some point that makes it OK and should be taken lightly? In my opinion, bullying should be harshly punished and premeditated bullying even more so. The fact that bullying is not taken seriously is a testament to how shit our current educational system is.0

Nature of the beast. Kids are little shits, I was a little shit until about year 8/9 when I settled down and started growing up a bit. A I said before, got the shit kicked out of me a few times when I first started HS ... and I learned to stand on my feet a bit and realise that the world is ultimately unfair, but the greatest vengeance I could have is taking my beatings with good humour and not let it get to me.

Not everyone is like you. Not every teen in the world can take a beating and just shrug it off the next day. Depression is an ugly thing. I know because I went through it specifically because of bullying. In fact, I'm not completely cured as it is.

Whether or not kids are little shits does not excuse their actions. If they're little shits then they should be guided into becoming better persons. Taking violent behaviour lightly is not the way to help them.

You say you were a little shit. Did you engage in bullying?

I know it sounds like a cliched thing. But I'm a better person for it, and a socially responsible adult if only because I got to be a bit rebellious (and also have that anti-social elements thrust upon me in greater volumes) in my youth.

Whether or not you became a better person due to being bullied is irrelevant. Like I've said before, not everyone is like you. People do not always handle bullying evidenced by the amount of suicides due to bullying.

It really doesn't help anybody by throwing labels on kids. If they learn their lesson (hopefully), then they'll be better people for it. If you just call them criminal and socially ostracise them, then they becpome the monsters you label them.

I never said we should ostracise them. They're kids, they don't know what they're doing. THAT, however, is not a good enough reason to simply let them get away with basically torturing a 5th grader. THAT is not acceptable behaviour and the fact that this happened shows the kind of parents those kids have. This is why the parents should be fined and due to their behaviour is why those teens should be forced to do community service.

It's not always easy to do ulimately what's right when there's a clear victim in the face pf an attack on one's character and being, but at the same time sometimes the high road is about acceptance and forgiveness. Holds true in your adult existence as well.

If the child can forgive those girls for what they did to him then I'm glad he was mature enough to not seek out revenge. That does not change the fact that those girls assaulted him. They need to be disciplined and by the simple fact that they actually did this to the kid shows how irresponsible their parents were.

 

[Totenkopf]

You know what should be applied when the genders were swapped, so in order to end this hypocrisy we should deliver the judgement regardlessly.

 

[dfphetteplace]

Honestly I can understand the parent though.. If my 11 year old son was screaming like a girl from having older girls trying to strip him.. I would be so ashamed I wouldnt want to have to go through court proceedings either.

Why? The kid is 11. That is exactly how an 11 year old boy should act when something like this happens.

 

[General_Potatoes]

If I was the mother, I'd backhand those girls til....... they started bleeding?

 

[Zeema]

the Mum should be shot and replaced with a Smarter Mum

and the Girls should be stripped and nailed to a wall of a shopping centre all day

or is that too harsh?

think of it this way

its a warning

 

[Radoh]

I wish girls a few years above me in School were that eager to rip my clothes off...

But seriously, the law doesnt need to be brought into it. The girls should be taught a lesson but as the kids they are.

How does the law not need to be brought into it? They broke several laws, why should they get off simply because they're fifteen? Fifteen is plenty old enough to know that stripping someone down in public against their will whilst knee on the throat and videotaping it with the express purpose of posting it on YouTube is wrong.

 

[Ixnay1111]

I wish girls a few years above me in School were that eager to rip my clothes off...

But seriously, the law doesnt need to be brought into it. The girls should be taught a lesson but as the kids they are.

How does the law not need to be brought into it? They broke several laws, why should they get off simply because they're fifteen? Fifteen is plenty old enough to know that stripping someone down in public against their will whilst knee on the throat and videotaping it with the express purpose of posting it on YouTube is wrong.

They're 15 now? I was 13 when I was in Year 8.

Regardless, they're still kids. They know when they do something wrong, but their view is selfish and they dont think of the all round consequences because they lack experience in life and maturity.

Answer me this, would pressing charges against these girls be that much better of an outcome than their parents disciplining them?

 

[Radoh]

I wish girls a few years above me in School were that eager to rip my clothes off...

But seriously, the law doesnt need to be brought into it. The girls should be taught a lesson but as the kids they are.

How does the law not need to be brought into it? They broke several laws, why should they get off simply because they're fifteen? Fifteen is plenty old enough to know that stripping someone down in public against their will whilst knee on the throat and videotaping it with the express purpose of posting it on YouTube is wrong.

They're 15 now? I was 13 when I was in Year 8.

Regardless, they're still kids. They know when they do something wrong, but their view is selfish and they dont think of the all round consequences because they lack experience in life and maturity.

Answer me this, would pressing charges against these girls be that much better of an outcome than their parents disciplining them?

Yes. Yes it would. You have to consider more than just the three of them. What if some time later some other group of children think that it would be "fun" to strip a poor boy down in public and they know that some other group did so and got away with it?
Besides, I don't care about the girls in this, what kind of justice is it where an eleven year old gets sexually harassed in public and the offenders get off scott-free? This is a serious criminal act that is getting no criminal repercussions.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

So you physically moved it? What if someone was hurt? What if you dropped the car? What if someone slipped and the car fell on them? How is this not dangerous. How many you were and at what age you did it is irrelevant. What you did was extremely dangerous. Frankly, you should've been forced to visit the school councilour.

Bit excessive to say extremely dangerous. And I did see the school conselor on occasions. Though they we're for other reasons. Like wearing my girlfriend's spare uniform on various occasions for school photos and whenever I was bored or wanted to look half decent.

Petticoats help when you lack the hips.

On the whole 'car' thing I didn't see the counselor ... never needed to. Though I think she thought I had a histrionic condition. But I never displayed the usual over-emotivity that is latent and strong in said people with HPD.

It was a stupid thing to do ... dangerous ... meh. Probably more dangerous to play rugby. Certainly more dangerous playing rugby with the seniors. Think that scene from MP's 'Meaning of Life'. Oh, and we were punished swiftly and effectively. Never will do it again (except if the target Bug belongs to a friend >;D).

Sounds like school? They fucking undressed him in the middle of the goddamn street, filmed it then posted it on the internet all while he was crying and begging to be let alone. Let's ignore the double standard present here, the fact that they assaulted him in the middle of the street and that he was begging to be left alone all the while being filmed and laughed at. How do you think this kid will deal with this? Do you think he'll just shrug it off? Do you think his peers will shrug it off?

I don't know ... same way I did? Admittedly there was no facebook or youtube back when I went to HS. A more apt question would be, why exactly do you think that he'll negatively suffer for it with much severity?

This is why I don't like treating children who suffer bullying as victims, but merely as people who can overcome like so many others. I mean if you keep treating people like victims you're reducing any emotional reparations they will naturally pursue themselves. To me that is neither therapeutic or effective.

Depression is NOT normal during teenagehood. Angst is a completely different thing, but being depressed is an extremely dangerous state of mind that could lead to suicide. Depression is NEVER normal, no matter what age group you're in. Just because they intended it as a joke does not justify those girl's behaivour. I'm not saying they should be criminally charged with assault and attempted rape with premeditation. I'm saying their parents should be fined for not keeping their children in check. Besides that, all the assailants should be forced to visit the school counselor. This is not normal behaviour and should not be treated as such.

Maybe not school conselor, but the idea of a child psych specialist and run a couple of personality tests and a brief talking about what going on in home and all that might be beneficial about finding out why a person may be acting in such a manner and seeing whether there is a direct causal link to their immediate environment ^_^

I'm down with that idea ;D

School conselor could handle basic questions, but child psych to interpret a couple of qualitative test scores could also provide greater insight into problematic behaviour and possible links to psychological instabilities.

Whether or not his peers forget about the event is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, this video is on the internet and can be accessed at any time. Besides that, the kid could have lasting mental issues following this specific event and the bullying that will surely follow in school.

I cannot say ... hmmm internet was kinda like one of those email things you occasionally used in school and even at home. ... or porn <.< Had videos and photos of bullying in my day. Not sure as to the effect of which youtube would actually add to general stigma.

I'm sorry, but I take bullying way more seriously than you or most people. Frankly, the expression "it's just kids being kids" disgusts me".

I apologize that my rhetoric offends? I mean, you do know that bullying isn't new? Sorry to say, but most people get bullied in school eventually, or off the school campus, or from people of other schools ... etc etc.

As I said before, this kid didn't get anything I didn't, and just writing him off as you do is doing more harm for bully victims rather than having faith people can (and most likely do) rise above it. As I said, treating people like victims makes them think they're victims. You need to empower people, not give them reasons to feel sorry about things they cannot change.

If that, too, disgusts you then I'm sorry but there's little else that can bridge the divide in sentiments.

Which is why their parents should be fined and put under watch by child protection services with regular visits from a social worker done every week or so. The kids should also be punished for what they have done. Each one of them should be forced to apologize to the kid. At the same time, they should also be forced to do community work for at least 4 months. This sort of behaviour is unnacceptable and should not be tolerated. If it was up to me, I'd undress those 6 girls in the middle of the street and let them stand there whilst someone pins them to the ground. The only way you can understand you were wrong is if you experience what your victim experienced as well.

...Wow ...

Sorry but I was sorta with you with community service as it happened on a public street (not child protection thing unless there's any real reason to think there might be trouble in the family unit) ... but what you just said afterwards put a chill in my bones.

No... thoroughly, completely, unreservedly think that is ethically out of line.

So because everyone gets bullying at some point that makes it OK and should be taken lightly? In my opinion, bullying should be harshly punished and premeditated bullying even more so. The fact that bullying is not taken seriously is a testament to how shit our current educational system is.

It's neither taken 'lightly', nor a fault of the education system. Bullying is. It's unavoidable. Whether it is psychological, social, or physical bullying. It's not nice, but you have no other recourse other than to tough it out.

Not everyone is like you. Not every teen in the world can take a beating and just shrug it off the next day. Depression is an ugly thing. I know because I went through it specifically because of bullying. In fact, I'm not completely cured as it is.

So... how is this my fault? x.x

I mean you can't defeat bullying, it will always be there. So .... I mean the only real recourse is someone telling you that you have to rise above it. It's a shame that life is cruel, and needlessly at that, but I don't think it is fair to say that people are somehow fools for not understanding what it feels like when they bloody well do.

The only person that can help you is you. Whether that is cold or not is beside the point, kids typiucally bounce back and shrug it off.... you don't have a choice in the matter.

You were bullied, I'm really sorry ... but I'm not going to lie and say that me and most people who are bullied don't eventually forget it.

Whether or not kids are little shits does not excuse their actions. If they're little shits then they should be guided into becoming better persons. Taking violent behaviour lightly is not the way to help them.

You say you were a little shit. Did you engage in bullying?

Me? Please I'm a princess ... ^_^

I was a little shit in a more devlish way, but never really malicious. Far too passive (and incapable) to actually hurt people directly (whether psychological or physical). Though I do have the gift of the gab and a forked tongue.

By year 10, I was never really bullied again like so many ... seniors had gone, and nobody wanted to risk messing with us, whether older grades or the fresh meat for the grinder at the bottom rung of the ladder.

Whether or not you became a better person due to being bullied is irrelevant. Like I've said before, not everyone is like you. People do not always handle bullying evidenced by the amount of suicides due to bullying.

Possibly ... hypothetical so I cannot answer. However you have to ask yourself what is actually stopping you from rising above? I don't have a solution to begin with, and even if I did it was mine alone O.O

I never said we should ostracise them. They're kids, they don't know what they're doing. THAT, however, is not a good enough reason to simply let them get away with basically torturing a 5th grader. THAT is not acceptable behaviour and the fact that this happened shows the kind of parents those kids have. This is why the parents should be fined and due to their behaviour is why those teens should be forced to do community service.

To be fair I was a bit of a shitstirrer in my youth, but my parents did a relatively good job of raising me ;.; Raised myself at 16 so they must have did a decent job preparing me for the real world, right? ^_^

Mum didn't like my 'choice of self-presentation and identity', so that was a primary reason for moving however. Other reasons involved family dispute between another branch of the family... But I would never call them 'bad' parents. Perhaps a bit anachronistic and backwards...

But 'bad'?...

If the child can forgive those girls for what they did to him then I'm glad he was mature enough to not seek out revenge. That does not change the fact that those girls assaulted him. They need to be disciplined and by the simple fact that they actually did this to the kid shows how irresponsible their parents were.

Kids can be little shits all by their ownsome, without any help from parents mind you. It's most important that we identify possible household connections to exhibited behaviour first off.

 

[SuperSam150]

The boy's parents could press charges if they want and Im sure, with video evidence they would get the same treatment since a guilty charge is punished on a tariff. "they did X, thats worth Y years in prison"

I think they are not pressing charges to avoid embarresing the boy as he could wind up bullied to hell for this.

 

[Astoria]

Yes, let the girls think they can get away with this. That totally won't make them think they can get away with it in the future. This is wrong and I don't care if the parents don't want to press charges they have to punished somehow.

 

[Ixnay1111]

I wish girls a few years above me in School were that eager to rip my clothes off...

But seriously, the law doesnt need to be brought into it. The girls should be taught a lesson but as the kids they are.

How does the law not need to be brought into it? They broke several laws, why should they get off simply because they're fifteen? Fifteen is plenty old enough to know that stripping someone down in public against their will whilst knee on the throat and videotaping it with the express purpose of posting it on YouTube is wrong.

They're 15 now? I was 13 when I was in Year 8.

Regardless, they're still kids. They know when they do something wrong, but their view is selfish and they dont think of the all round consequences because they lack experience in life and maturity.

Answer me this, would pressing charges against these girls be that much better of an outcome than their parents disciplining them?

Yes. Yes it would. You have to consider more than just the three of them. What if some time later some other group of children think that it would be "fun" to strip a poor boy down in public and they know that some other group did so and got away with it?
Besides, I don't care about the girls in this, what kind of justice is it where an eleven year old gets sexually harassed in public and the offenders get off scott-free? This is a serious criminal act that is getting no criminal repercussions.

The kid was bullied, never a nice thing but it is actually quite common believe it or not. To believe putting a stain on three young girls futures just to prove a point to a very small "potential" minority is ludicrous and paranoid. And don't try and change the context because thats not the point you were arguing.

 

[Radoh]

I wish girls a few years above me in School were that eager to rip my clothes off...

But seriously, the law doesnt need to be brought into it. The girls should be taught a lesson but as the kids they are.

How does the law not need to be brought into it? They broke several laws, why should they get off simply because they're fifteen? Fifteen is plenty old enough to know that stripping someone down in public against their will whilst knee on the throat and videotaping it with the express purpose of posting it on YouTube is wrong.

They're 15 now? I was 13 when I was in Year 8.

Regardless, they're still kids. They know when they do something wrong, but their view is selfish and they dont think of the all round consequences because they lack experience in life and maturity.

Answer me this, would pressing charges against these girls be that much better of an outcome than their parents disciplining them?

Yes. Yes it would. You have to consider more than just the three of them. What if some time later some other group of children think that it would be "fun" to strip a poor boy down in public and they know that some other group did so and got away with it?
Besides, I don't care about the girls in this, what kind of justice is it where an eleven year old gets sexually harassed in public and the offenders get off scott-free? This is a serious criminal act that is getting no criminal repercussions.

The kid was bullied, never a nice thing but it is actually quite common believe it or not. To believe putting a stain on three young girls futures just to prove a point to a very small "potential" minority is ludicrous and paranoid. And don't try and change the context because thats not the point you were arguing.

Bullying? This far exceeds bullying. I was bullied from Elementary to High School, and it wasn't fun. This? This is much worse than anything I had to suffer through. This is more than playground teasing and pranks.
As for putting a stain on their futures, they did something that they should pay for regardless of age or gender. They committed criminal actions, why shouldn't they receive blemishes for that?

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Hmm... You do drive a good point for the most part, mainly because I am really for kids needing to learn to deal with the "highschool drama" part of their lives, and not let that completely take charge of your life (hell, I'm still in the process of telling myself it wasn't that big of a deal).

However, I do think something needs to be done with these three girls at the very least. Older kids have no right picking on people 3 years younger than them, especially ones who have hit puberty.

But you're right. What can you really do without causing a rather harsh movement?

Well ... moderation and temperance. Can't seem draconic, nor can you shield children their entire adolescence. Though I do think your idea of probationary (non-criminal) demeritation could be quite effective.

As long as it pertained to anti-social ativities such as bullying and the like.

Though still not sure how you could get rid of the social or psychological aspects of bullying. They are largely impossible to spot from the outside, and unlike merely slapping a restraining order-like veto of actions from predominantly male bully acts of physical dominance you can't really do the opposite for social or psychological bullying.

So you'll never get pass bullying, so all you can do is prepare your child to get past bullying. but at the very least you might prevent a few cases of hospitalization like I suffered first year and a half.

In the end you're the one that decides whether bullying ultimately affects you or not. No judicial action is going to prevent that. Even if you declared schoolsa police state where no slander, violence or libel would be tolerated, as if you're going to silence and cow an entire population ... and you just end up making school even more miserable during the first couple of years.

But as I said, it either gets better or it doesn't, up to you.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

the Mum should be shot and replaced with a Smarter Mum

and the Girls should be stripped and nailed to a wall of a shopping centre all day

or is that too harsh?

think of it this way

its a warning

*Nuzzles*

A bit Roman there Trezu ;D