A bit of deep thought for ya

[sorry user name taken.]

~shrugs~


meh....believe in what you like i don't see why people should justify what they believe in ..

Because it evolves the way we think and understand.

Snip

Re read the OP. I don't talk about Christianity.

Ah right, my bad - My current opinion is that if it gets any muggier my brain will cease to function outright! But I saw the word God spouted about a few times and something about Physics, so I thought I would chip in...I shall doff my hat and bid ado!

No stay! You may learn something. I am.

and whats the way they think got to do with you again? -_-

 

[Larenxis]

and whats the way they think got to do with you again? -_-

Four heads are better than one?

 

[Zacharine]

Take your mind, for example; it doesn't exist as a spatio-temporal entity, yet you'd probably argue that it is fully real.

Actually I'd argue that your mind is at least partially based on certain part of space-time, name the one that happens to be your head.

Mind as such can be seen as metaphysical or non-spatial-temporal. However, that doesn't mean that it isn't built on well-understood principles of matter/energy interaction. But since the true nature of a mind is not yet understood I withhold my statement about mind being only a spatio-temporal construct. After all, while I do think that, I might be wrong.

 

[Lord George]

In the arena of logic I fight unarmed!!

 

[supermaster1337]

If your blind you still see some light, my grandmother is blind and she can see light.

 

[Zersy]

This is just a little something I've been thinking up. While it really warrents no direct discussion, I would like to see some arguments raised or some more points expanded to get a more fixed idea on what's going on in my head.

An animal born without eyes or any idea of sight, how would it understand light? It could not comprehend light or the spectrum or colours.
So why are we only limited to five senses? That can't be all of them? There's more. I find it kind of close-minded to think otherwise.

Logic can only prove things that are in the physical plane of existence. How do we know that we have more senses, or souls? To even think about it, you NEED to leave logic behind. Those that cling to it are too scared and want the shelter of something safe and familiar.

So how is it that people want to disprove god? You can disprove religion but not god. I find religion only helps to serve us. I find it is different to god. Religion, whether helpful or not, is something we made up for an understanding of the universe, faith, spiritual meaning. Seeing as it was written by the hand of man, it is a physical thing making it exist where logic rules. Thus Religion has to fight with logic and seeing as we as a race have excelled terrifically at logic and science, we find it too easy to disprove and prove things.
But you can't deny a presents of something great and amazing that lives on planes without logic. This is why I don't see god as any physical being, because something as great as that, and to live on every level of existence, to feel more than five senses, and to obtain more emotion, it can't be logical. Perhaps its physical side it us (animals, planets, rocks, planets, space dust, atoms, etc) but... yeah. It defies logic that if witnessing it, it would destroy people's minds. We're too dependent on this logic we have.

I agree with you in every part

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

In the arena of logic I fight unarmed!!

I prefer sword-chucks, yo.

 

[EMFCRACKSHOT]

Humans only use a small % of brain power, when we learn to actively use the rest, we will unlock all kinds of cool powers and stuff.
There are massive numbers of theories on whether or not god exists but most have been made by philosophers and a few scientists. I have to do an exam on it tomorrow for my A levels.
Ipersonally find the three cosmological arguments of Thomas Aquinas the most convincing in proving whether or not god exists, but they show a different kind of god to the one portrayed by most modern religions.
The god this shows is one who is perfect in every way and gives meaning to all others as they attempt to rech similar levels of perfection.
God is known as the prime mover. It started all movemen/change in the universe but exists external to the universe. It does not move or change itself but causes movement and change in others.
(Sorry, i just decided to use this thread as a revision excersize)
One argument that i have nothing but disdain for is the ontological argument. It was written by a man called Anselm in the 19th century. He claims that everyone would accept a definition of god as that than which nothing greater can be concieved. from here he follows that it is better to exist in both reality and the mind than in the mind alone.
Finally he states that as god is that than which nothing greater can be concieved, he has to exist in reality as it if he didnt then a being that existed in both reality and the mind would be greater.
The biggest problem with this is that there is no unified thought on what god actually is.
Another problem is one that was highlighted by Kant. Just because something can be thought of does not mean it has more value if it is real.

 

[Zacharine]

Humans only use a small % of brain power, when we learn to actively use the rest, we will unlock all kinds of cool powers and stuff.

Depressing to see how this particular urban myth is still present. Sure, only a limited percentage of human brain neurons might be firing at any single given moment, but all of them are used at one point or another during a normal 8h working day. Heck, only 10% at a time, with half of those changing every second means that every single part of the entire neuron structure composing human brain has been used at least once during during the next two minutes or so.

nope, no hidden brain-powers based on neuron activity coming up. Sorry to disappoint ya

 

[EMFCRACKSHOT]

Humans only use a small % of brain power, when we learn to actively use the rest, we will unlock all kinds of cool powers and stuff.

Depressing to see how this particular urban myth is still present. Sure, only a limited percentage of human brain neurons might be firing at any single given moment, but all of them are used at one point or another during a normal 8h working day. Heck, only 10% at a time, with half of those changing every second means that every single part of the entire neuron structure composing human brain has been used at least once during during the next two minutes or so.

nope, no hidden brain-powers based on neuron activity coming up. Sorry to disappoint ya

Sorry, just a stargate fanboy, had to put it in there.

As for the whole how can god exist with so much evil question also known as the problem of evil, well (sorry, revision, exam tomorrow)

According to Irenaus, because of free will, god cannot control moral evil. he show his love for us in a greater way by allowing us to be free. We were created so that we could love god, but we could not be forced, we had to be free to make the decision for ouselves.
Evil is the price we pay for attempting to achieve perfection but some claim the price is too high. Dostoyevsky in his book the brothers Kamarazov gives the example of one man who although he beleives in god, turns his back n him as he believes the price paid for free will is too high.
According to Augustine, evil is a deprivation or absence of good. God did not create it.
This depravation was caused by the fall when adam and eve ate from the tree. Now, every subsequent generation pays for that act. Augustine also states that without free will we could not love god properly so we had to be free. This gave people the oportunity to turn their backs on him as happened with lucifer and his fallenn angels

 

[razer17]

I cling to logic. I'm scared, and I shelter in something safe and familiar, and in my mind, correct as hell. Saying "You can't disprove God" is useless. So is "You can't prove God." Hence, I choose my own standpoint, which is that I cannot believe that a God exists, or created any of this.

I can and will deny the "presents of something great and amazing that lives on planes without logic", whatever you or anyone else say, because it is my right.

So there.

well more or less what i wanted to say, in the first post.
But to me this is a cop-out arguement. i could say anything exists in a realm where there is no logic, and there is no way to disprove it, so this reason for why God exists doesn't really prove anything. we are too dependent on logic, because it serves us well. so yeah, you're not so good reason for God's existance has done nothing to sway me.
Also i find it close minded to suggest that there are more than the 5 provable senses, anything else and you're fishing in the dark for answers that may or ma not exist.

 

[Zacharine]

Humans only use a small % of brain power, when we learn to actively use the rest, we will unlock all kinds of cool powers and stuff.

Depressing to see how this particular urban myth is still present. Sure, only a limited percentage of human brain neurons might be firing at any single given moment, but all of them are used at one point or another during a normal 8h working day. Heck, only 10% at a time, with half of those changing every second means that every single part of the entire neuron structure composing human brain has been used at least once during during the next two minutes or so.

nope, no hidden brain-powers based on neuron activity coming up. Sorry to disappoint ya

Sorry, just a stargate fanboy, had to put it in there.

As for the whole how can god exist with so much evil question also known as the problem of evil, well (sorry, revision, exam tomorrow)

According to Irenaus, because of free will, god cannot control moral evil. he show his love for us in a greater way by allowing us to be free. We were created so that we could love god, but we could not be forced, we had to be free to make the decision for ouselves.
Evil is the price we pay for attempting to achieve perfection but some claim the price is too high. Dostoyevsky in his book the brothers Kamarazov gives the example of one man who although he beleives in god, turns his back n him as he believes the price paid for free will is too high.
According to Augustine, evil is a deprivation or absence of good. God did not create it.
This depravation was caused by the fall when adam and eve ate from the tree. Now, every subsequent generation pays for that act. Augustine also states that without free will we could not love god properly so we had to be free. This gave people the oportunity to turn their backs on him as happened with lucifer and his fallenn angels

Ahh, the infamous problem of evil. I could talk about that all night long. Suffice to say, it has yet to be solved for a all-knowing, all-powerful, loving/caring (of humanity) god-figure.

 

[Blame]

Didn't have time to read all of these posts. But I'd like to say there aren't five senses, nearer 21. Pain is included, Feeling heat, balance of course, there's also sense where if you close your eyes you can tell where your hand is if you move it about, (try it!) Seeing in colour is different from just sight, as he have rods and cones in our eyes.

Here's a list of the ones I came up with;

1. Light
2. Colour
3. Hearing
4. Smell
5. Sweet taste
6. Sour taste
7. Salty taste
8. Bitter taste
9. Umami taste (the meaty taste found in stuff like soy sauce)
10. Touch
11. Balance
12. Proprioception (joint position if eyes closed)
13. Kinaesthesis (movement)
14. Heat
15. Cold
16. Blood pressure
17. Blood oxygen content
18. Cerebrospinal fluid pH (located in the spine and brain, manifests as headaches and backpain)
19. Plasma osmotic potential (thirst)
20. Artery-vein glucose difference (hunger)
21. Lung inflation.

I suppose it depends on if you seperate the 'taste' senses. Any thoughts?

 

[EMFCRACKSHOT]

The biggest problem with the problem of evil is the definition it givres to god. God has to be omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent. The first two i can accept, but the only reason the third one is in there is because religious people are scared that their god may not actually be that nice. Its fairly simple to remove this.
I shall say it again, the problem lies with the human definition of god,not god himself

 

[CuddlyCombine]

Yeah, we use only 15-20% I think. It will be interesting to see, a million years from now, if we have gotten any better at using the other 80-85%

This is a myth. It is not based in scientific fact in any way, shape, or form. Please, tell your friends so that they can stop sounding like ignorant fools.

 

[sokka14]

So why are we only limited to five senses? That can't be all of them? There's more. I find it kind of close-minded to think otherwise.

Logic can only prove things that are in the physical plane of existence. How do we know that we have more senses, or souls? To even think about it, you NEED to leave logic behind. Those that cling to it are too scared and want the shelter of something safe and familiar.

So how is it that people want to disprove god? You can disprove religion but not god. I find religion only helps to serve us. I find it is different to god. Religion, whether helpful or not, is something we made up for an understanding of the universe, faith, spiritual meaning. Seeing as it was written by the hand of man, it is a physical thing making it exist where logic rules. Thus Religion has to fight with logic and seeing as we as a race have excelled terrifically at logic and science, we find it too easy to disprove and prove things.
But you can't deny a presents of something great and amazing that lives on planes without logic.

ok OP, a few answers for ya.

no-one ever wanted to disprove god (and i'm not entirely sure how you've come to this conclusion), they wanted to disprove religion, or a particular image of god created by religion.

the 5 senses idea was introduced by aristotle over 2 thousand years ago. since then science has moved on a little bit. the amount of senses scientists are now claiming is over 15.

"Those that cling to it are too scared and want the shelter of something safe and familiar" - what do you think religion is all about!!??

science is about constantly questioning and trying to understand the world around us. how exactly is it "scared" to choose logic? first of all, choosing an approach which actively discourages logic is not only stupid, but extremely dangerous. choosing a religion is the epitome of scared reasoning. we can't accept the scary but extremely probable truths so we turn to the more desirable and comforting illogical teachings. of course i know this isn't why most people "choose" religion, mainly because there is no "why", as the vast majority of religious believers were indoctrinated anyway.

inputting god into the gaps of scientific understanding isn't even an argument, all you are doing is looking at something which is yet to be explained and screaming "GOD DID IT!" then someone comes along and explains it, which you follow up with "GOD DID IT LIKE THAT!" and the cycle continues.

attempting to explain things outside the physical existence can (and does) only result into meaningless speculation with nothing close to resembling answers. hence a myriad of different religions. just voice your extremely vague ideas about the "spirituality" and the existential world and no-one can claim you're right or wrong. i can claim unicorns exist, only they can't be sensed by any other animal. you can't disprove me, but of course you wouldn't seriously attempt to. now what if i tried to get people to go by the teachings of the unicorns? hey hey! we've got ourselves a religion. or a cult if you prefer, not that there's any difference.

i think unwittingly you are actually talking about philosophy, as religion has no intention of increasing our understanding of the universe. in fact religion has only ever been detrimental to the progress of our understanding, and i can back that up with examples if you really want. this is one of the main reasons why many people (religious and non-religous) want to disprove, or at least, secularize (e.g. modern liberal christians) religion.

yes i can deny the "presents" of a good being, and even though i live in a cushy middle-class family in a comfortable, peaceful and wealthy country i'm not blinded into believing the world is full of love. but even if i did think the world was amazingly beautiful i'd be even more over-awed if it came together without a creator. of course evolution filled in the gap of creation long ago, but i am still over-awed by some evolutions (some for their beauty, some for the way they've adapted to their environments) and many natural beauties.

one thing i can be sure of about god, is that if he/she/it/they exist, then they are going rather out of their way to make me believe they don't.