I'm just rolling my eyes at people and the news media being scared of this. You should be used to riots, violence, and protests by now. I'm surprised that it took this long. We might get another one during inauguration day.
My line of work is not dissimilar. You have a load of statistically verified data, they are double-checked, published; there are rules, and structure, and standards to meet.Conspiracy theorists don't work with those restraints.
I don't really know or care that much about American politics, because I'm not American, but you referred to how the rest of the world would view this. Purely from an outsider's perspective, the message from the American left has been "mob rule is good, civil insurrection is fine, government buildings are fair game". It was obvious that the Trump supporters and right wing groups would respond in kind eventually, once they started to get organised. If you escalate a conflict, that's what generally happens.Just last year? And only those things? What about the inciting events? George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery?
What about the incidents afterwards? Casey Goodson Jr, Daniel Prude, et al?
What about the years previous? Unite the Right rallies, People being run over by cars, Churches Burned down, Innocent people being run down and shot like animals, the Hate Crime Surge since Trump came into office, and especially during the pandemic, Police Brutality, Trump downplaying the rampant Police Brutality that occurred while trying to suppress their voting ability at the same time, and etc.
You're right. It does seem like a natural progression. But not from the side you might be referring...
You are way over simplifying a complex issue. If people want to do damage to government property as a protest/riot then that is what it is, when that goes to private property then its too far. This isn't doing that though, this is a group literally trying to undermine the constitution by interrupting the peaceful transfer of power and overturn the will of the people to install a wannabe dictator.I don't really know or care that much about American politics, because I'm not American, but you referred to how the rest of the world would view this. Purely from an outsider's perspective, the message from the American left has been "mob rule is good, civil insurrection is fine, government buildings are fair game". It was obvious that the Trump supporters and right wing groups would respond in kind eventually, once they started to get organised. If you escalate a conflict, that's what generally happens.
Where? Show proof that a single one (let alone multiple stations and multiple courts) was burnt to the ground.Police stations and court houses burned to the ground
I'm not saying it's an easy thing, or even always plausible, but mid-argument options are certainly limited. Outside of an argument, there's a better chance. The piece Worgen linked to is a good example.I dont know about the admiring bit. Most of the time the only way to get them to admire you is to agree with everything they said... which is counterproductive
This was someone emotionally hooked into 9/11 conspiracies, who was then presented with all the facts, but the moment that broke him out of it:Cracked has a really interesting article from a used to be 9/11 truther about how he got into the conspiracy and how he ended up getting out of it.
I Was A Professional 9/11 Truther (And I Gave It Up)
We sat down with Charles Veitch, who got on the Truther bandwagon early and became one of its most popular advocates ... only to turn away from the whole ridiculous conspiracy in the most public way possible.www.cracked.com
An ardent conspiracy theorist was presented not only with the facts to change his beliefs, but also an emotional reason to want to change his beliefs. Like, appeal to emotion may be a logical fallacy in reasoned debate, but beliefs aren't made of pure reason by any stretch of the imagination.For Charlie, the worst moment was meeting Alice Hoagland, whose son, Mark Bingham, perished aboard Flight 93.
"I cracked and broke down in tears. It was the true human emotion of a mother who lost her kid that changed me. The others believed it was a fake recording and that she was in on it. It was the monstrous ugliness of the other theorists which set me on edge. I'm made to believe they're all a part of the 10,000-man-strong Illuminati? I said to the producers on day five, 'I've changed my mind.'"
You can make anything sound bad or good, based on the wording. That's why facts are more important than rhetoric.You are way over simplifying a complex issue. If people want to do damage to government property as a protest/riot then that is what it is, when that goes to private property then its too far. This isn't doing that though, this is a group literally trying to undermine the constitution by interrupting the peaceful transfer of power and overturn the will of the people to install a wannabe dictator.
Are you going to be pedantic and say that as long as the structure of the building is still standing, it's not technically burnt to the ground? Therefore, it's okay?Where? Show proof that a single one (let alone multiple stations and multiple courts) was burnt to the ground.
....do you only wake up and get out of bed when someone calls you on the phone?=America received an unexpected wake up call. The questions is: will they pick up the phone?
I saw this and thought of youI've seen plenty of news footage from America in the last year. Police stations and court houses burned to the ground, stores looted, mobs roaming the streets, people being dragged from cars and beaten up. This just seems like a natural progression.
Then I'll ask you in all fairness... if you're not willing to do more than surface research of a subject and use that as an excuse on not having anything else to say when pressed, why voice an opinion?I don't really know or care that much about American politics, because I'm not American, but you referred to how the rest of the world would view this. Purely from an outsider's perspective, the message from the American left has been "mob rule is good, civil insurrection is fine, government buildings are fair game". It was obvious that the Trump supporters and right wing groups would respond in kind eventually, once they started to get organised. If you escalate a conflict, that's what generally happens.
I think he's just alluding to the "wake-up call" phrase. It's a thing where hotels can call your room phone in lieu of an alarm clock to wake you up. It's just a phrase.....do you only wake up and get out of bed when someone calls you on the phone?
Yes, I know the phrase, but I thought it referred to a parent calling for their kid to get out of bed and had nothing to do with phone calls. I thought CaitSeith was mixing metaphors, and so made a joke about it... but if it refers to hotel wake-up phone calls, then I've long misunderstood where the phrase comes from.I think he's just alluding to the "wake-up call" phrase. It's a thing where hotels can call your room phone in lieu of an alarm clock to wake you up. It's just a phrase.
Did you not know that?
Yeah, generally people get into conspiracies with a little logic and a lot of emotion. You can't really logic someone out of that when they are into it, only feels can really reach them and even then its only sometimes.An ardent conspiracy theorist was presented not only with the facts to change his beliefs, but also an emotional reason to want to change his beliefs. Like, appeal to emotion may be a logical fallacy in reasoned debate, but beliefs aren't made of pure reason by any stretch of the imagination.
You just spelled out why its so dangerous to feed into the delusion of these conspiracy theorists, then they start thinking stupid things like the election was stolen and trying to install a dictator.Your claim that they wanted to "overturn the will of the people" is not a fact. From their perspective, the will of the people was discarded months ago due to election fraud.
Your claim that they were trying to "undermine the constitution" is not a fact, but is based on the above assumption. In their eyes, they were defending it.
I agree.You just spelled out why its so dangerous to feed into the delusion of these conspiracy theorists, then they start thinking stupid things like the election was stolen and trying to install a dictator.
It's a frustration when people on the internet make insane claims and then tell you to "do you own research" when you call them on it. In most cases, it's not research. It's searching for sources that agree with their stance, usually conspiracy theory videos by people who no credentials for any line of work more complex than flipping burgers.My greatest frustration is perhaps in most internet debate is that so few people seem capable or willing to evaluate their information or sources, when it should be a bread and butter approach.
Ignoring the conspiracy theorists, the liars, the racists, the fascists, is how we got here in the first place. They don't go away if you ignore them- they gain adherents, influence, power. And now we've had a conspiracy-theory-peddling, lying racist with dreams of fascism in the White House for four years, whose followers literally stormed the halls of government in the hopes of keeping him in power permanently.I learned that back in the early-mid 2000's with 9/11 truthers.
The only good way to deal with a conspiracy theorist is to ignore them.
Read the cracked article I linked. You can't logic someones way out of a position like this. You can barely emotion them out of it since they can just say those grieving family members are paid actors.I agree.
That's why, instead of feeding the delusion, you gotta squash it with overwhelming proof and evidence.
Y'know, things like audits, recounts, forensic investigations, things like that.
Also, transparency on the front-end would prevent conspiracy theories from getting off the ground. Don't go into secret back rooms and nobody will wonder what you're doing in that secret back room.