A Group of 270 Scientists, Doctors, etc. Submit Open Letter to Spotify Regarding Joe Rogan (JRE)

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
Legacy
Mar 3, 2009
8,309
5,678
118
It's basic human psychology. If you treat someone like a person and have compassion, they might actually listen. Instead of just saying you're dumb and wrong, you can actually educate. The same thing happened with HIV and it didn't go well. Stop repeating past mistakes.
Oh, screw that.

Most of the anti-vaxxers were never going to be brought round: paranoid about the government, Big Pharma, or they're die-hard anti-vax from long back (e.g. as CM156 notes regarding Andrew Wakefield) and no amount of optimism or nice talking was ever going work.

It would be a lot easier to build trust if people weren't trying to convince everyone that public health leaders are mass murderers, e.g.:

Fauci killed more people just from the link below than Joe Rogan could've ever influenced.
 

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
4,621
719
118
Country
USA
Vaccination has successfully eradicated diseases in the past. Its primary obstacles are human psychology and politics, not sheer impossibility.
Not every disease is identical. Polio and influenza don't behave the same.
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
7,413
2,117
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
Vaccination has successfully eradicated diseases in the past. Its primary obstacles are human psychology and politics, not sheer impossibility.
I wanted to point out that we never got there with the flu. But, as you state, it has other barriers

What I DO find funny is when conservatives still, to this day, bring up flu killing 60K per year. And how we were 'comfortable' with that. Then you realise, you've just been hit with 40 years of propoganda to make sure we just don't put that extra effort in

I don't know if we can fully eradicate any corona virus. We now find out that many solutions to previous corona viruses have been deliberately stopped due to political and economic reasons. No wonder epidemiologist are yelling all the time.

Epidemiologist: 'We almost there, 90% of the virus is gone.'
Gov official: 'Good. Cancel all funding.'
Epidemiologist: 'wtf?'

And, somehow, this is not the government censorship crackpots bring up. They gotta make their own up
 

CM156

Resident Reactionary
Legacy
May 6, 2020
921
872
98
Country
United States
Gender
White Male
Reminds me of the whole delusion of "don't become an organ donor or doctors will let you die so they can harvest your organs for profit".
Simple way to avoid this. Have the trolley problem be part of the med school exams. Anyone who says "pull the lever" is disqualified from ever working in organ donation as a field.
 

Generals

Elite Member
May 19, 2020
537
278
68
Because if you want them to get vaccinated, you're only making it less likely for them to get vaccinated. Most of them are not some extreme people that just hate vaccines for no reason. For most of them, it just takes basic education and human compassion. And anti-vaxxers are not close to the main reason for the spread. Everyone I know has basically gotten covid this cold season and everyone is vaxxed. You think it's these small pockets of unvaccinated that is causing all the spread?
That ship has sailed. We have tried appeasement and education for more than a year, those who could have been convinced have been. The problem is that alternative fact spreaders have gotten a hold on a lot of people and convinced them that "mainstream" science is just a big fat lie paid by big pharma. So nothing that comes out of pro vaccine people will convince them. No one will be convinced by people they believe to be liars and corrupted. I know anti vaxxers and I know how it works: scientists and doctors who push vaccines? Liars bought by or manipulated by big pharma. The few scientists and doctors who are anti vax? Truth spreading enlightened spirits.

And the worst part is that I know of anti vaxxers who are proud of how they are "enlightening" people who are now becoming sceptic because anti vaxxers abused their moments of doubt. A moment of doubt that sometimes occur due to an infection which lead to mild to moderate symptoms despite the fact these people are old and had comorbidities (and thus likely to have much more severe symptoms had they not been vaccinated).

So yes... Fuck them.
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 16, 2010
15,715
1,353
118
More flies with honey doesn't work. In fairness, it sorta looks like it should work, until people try it a few hundred times and see that it never does. And not working isn't the only problem with it.
 

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
3,635
2,751
118
Australia
The same thing happened with HIV and it didn't go well. Stop repeating past mistakes.
The COVID response has been handled in all sorts of ways ranging from reasonably effective to total boondoggle. But I don’t believe for a second it has or ever will eclipse the absolute fucking disaster that was the HIV/AIDS response as I learned about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
7,501
3,106
118
Country
United Kingdom
Omicron spreads too easily for vaccination to stop that.
Possibly, though vaccination has also prevented the spread of diseases even more contagious.

But even so, the Omicron variant was only able to develop because the coronavirus was around for over a year already, able to mutate and adapt as we failed to get a handle on it.

Not every disease is identical. Polio and influenza don't behave the same.
Indeed. But there is nothing utterly unique to Covid-19 which makes it impossible to deal with.
 

McElroy

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2013
4,320
258
88
Finland
Possibly, though vaccination has also prevented the spread of diseases even more contagious.
Sure, 98% vaccination rate on top of heavy social restrictions that everyone complies with. However, this is not what governments are after. They will lift restrictions when the hospital burden eases off, because that's what everyone wants in the big picture (and is the best option for everyone).
But even so, the Omicron variant was only able to develop because the coronavirus was around for over a year already, able to mutate and adapt as we failed to get a handle on it.
Not caused by anti-vaxxers. It is what it is.
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
7,501
3,106
118
Country
United Kingdom
Sure, 98% vaccination rate on top of heavy social restrictions that everyone complies with. However, this is not what governments are after. They will lift restrictions when the hospital burden eases off, because that's what everyone wants in the big picture (and is the best option for everyone).
In each case, they have eased restrictions earlier than scientists have advised, and then another inevitable surge has followed. Then lockdown -> rate lowers -> lockdown eased too early -> surge again. That's not best for anyone; it extends the duration of the pandemic, encourages mutation and new variants, kills more in the long run, and even causes more damage to the economy and more psychological stress.

The reasons that governments are doing this are short-sighted money-focused ones. Businesses want people back in work now, money made now. And businesses habitually prioritise the short-term over the long term. So they lobby for restrictions to ease ASAP, regardless of the long-term good or the benefit of the people in general.

Not caused by anti-vaxxers. It is what it is.
Caused in some small part by anti-vaxxers, but caused in large part by terrible public health policies around the world, usually putting profit above human life.

"It is what it is" because governments and complacent voters have made it like that. A lot of death was avoidable.
 

McElroy

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2013
4,320
258
88
Finland
This premise is mostly rubbish looking at how things were done in Finland. Government can't step in to be the bad guy in a liberal social democracy. Whether you want it or not economic freedom is freedom too.

I reckon that there are ways to do it worse, and refusing vaccination is the number 1 cause of those avoidable deaths.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
15,450
5,997
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
It's not the vaccine, stop bullshiting yourself.
You're not a genius, nor do you know everything. So stop acting like you do. You take everything Rogan says as 100% truth shows you're not as much as thinker as you believe. You've batted for the imbecicle more times than any of us care to count. If you have a problem with that: News Flash; 0 fucks given!

I am sorry about your father and your friends/co-workers, but shit happens unfortunately. They must have hung around someone who either has COVID, didn't get vaccinated, or both. While you can still get COVID after getting your shots, your less likely to die or be hospitalized. I got all three of my shots, and I thank the Lord for making sure my family and I got all of our shots. I thankful that I have people that care for each others well being. It helps when your mom's side of family are qualified and experts nurses and they know their medical shit. Also, commons sense and human deceny is a thing. So yeah.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
7,674
2,675
118
You take everything Rogan says as 100% truth shows you're not as much as thinker as you believe.
Hey look at you doing that assuming thing you blame me for. I don't even listen to Rogan anymore and I haven't since he moved off Youtube years ago. So as usual you are so quick to call everyone else an asshole that you don't have any idea who the FUCK you are talking about.

I got all three of my shots, and I thank the Lord for making sure my family and I got all of our shots. I thankful that I have people that care for each others well being.
This is media propaganda. They've told you that you don't care about other people if you don't get the shot. They've convinced you that people who don't get vaccinated are evil.

Meanwhile the truth is, the vaccine is doing fuck-all for the prevention and spread of the Omicron varient and as more varients continue to propagate, the vaccine will become less and less effective in this manner.

The vaccine is great, it protects YOU and ONLY YOU from serious illness. Everyone capable of getting vaccinated probably should. HOWEVER it has nothing to do with protecting other people.
You said it yourself after all.....
I am sorry about your father and your friends/co-workers, but shit happens unfortunately.
hmmm.....funny that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phoenixmgs

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
15,450
5,997
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
They've convinced you that people who don't get vaccinated are evil.
The media didn't convince me of shit. People who don't get vaccinated are mostly contrarian dumb asses who want to feel special or part of the out group. Mommy, and daddy didn't raise a pair of fools. Like I said before, I got a family of nurses, mom included, that know what the fuck they're actually saying, and not some know-nothing-know-it-all podcaster/radio guy. Your precious husbando is of said part media. Deal with it; he is part of the problem and not the fucking solution.

HOWEVER it has nothing to do with protecting other people.
You said it yourself after all.....
No, that's you projecting your insecurities, being the parrot of arm chair "experts" and "free thinkers", and putting words in my mouth. You're not really good at this.

Second, it's called protecting others and making sure they protect themselves, so we all have each others back. That is what family does, and what would we should all be doing as a whole. Not this mindless posturing and conspiracy feeding garbage, because you're too lazy to be a responsible person, don't care for no one, but yourself, or a total buffoon. And whenever anti-vaxxers get sick, they either blame someone else for their misfortune, or start begging for their lives and want to be taken care of all of the sudden. Expecting to get "fair" treatment, despite doing everything in their power spread false information (Candance Owen and all followers of Trump). The same dipshits that claim "survival of the fittest", but turn in to giant pussies when bad things happen to them.

hmmm.....funny that.
You missed this part.
They must have hung around someone who either has COVID, didn't get vaccinated, or both. While you can still get COVID after getting your shots, your less likely to die or be hospitalized.
Doesn't give you to right to make excuses, nor validate other peoples idiocy or beyond dangerous behavior. I have nothing left to say. If you wish to follow a fools path, I shall not weep for you.
 
Last edited:

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
7,501
3,106
118
Country
United Kingdom
This premise is mostly rubbish looking at how things were done in Finland. Government can't step in to be the bad guy in a liberal social democracy. Whether you want it or not economic freedom is freedom too.
This response is merely a value judgement on your part, that this ill-defined "economic freedom" was worth whatever sacrifices were made. Suffice it to say that according to public polling, most people do not agree with you, and would prefer to prioritise life and health above the ability to buy shit.

And that aside, the constant 'lockdown -> out of lockdown -> back into lockdown' cycle has actually done more damage to our "economic freedom" in the long run anyway.

I reckon that there are ways to do it worse, and refusing vaccination is the number 1 cause of those avoidable deaths.
People refusing to vaccinate is merely one item on a long laundry list. We also have... the failure to close borders; the refusal of companies to support working from home; the early lifting of restrictions; the terribly muddled public messaging (particularly in the US); unnecessary shortages of vital equipment...

(A lot of which can be traced, in one form or another, to profit).
 
  • Like
Reactions: CM156 and BrawlMan

McElroy

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2013
4,320
258
88
Finland
This response is merely a value judgement on your part, that this ill-defined "economic freedom" was worth whatever sacrifices were made. And that aside, the constant 'lockdown -> out of lockdown -> back into lockdown' cycle has actually done more damage to our "economic freedom" in the long run anyway.

We also have... the failure to close borders; the refusal of companies to support working from home; the early lifting of restrictions; the terribly muddled public messaging (particularly in the US); unnecessary shortages of vital equipment...
It has been restricted as much as the constitution allows. The service sector (current estimates 35-40% of small businesses) is the sacrifice. Our borders are always open to citizens and permanent residents, and some of them have no brains to speak of. I can't vouch for polls that I haven't seen, but there is absolutely no way any restrictions were lifted too early here. Public messaging has been fucked up from time to time, that's for sure.

Perhaps our (Finnish) situation has been too "easy" for me to think like this, and the truth is I would've preferred absolutely strict restrictions back in 10/2020 so that they could've been lifted the following month... but another wave would've hit and then another and another. The restrictions are more than little inconveniences. There doesn't seem to be a right call. Instead of a yo-yo that would've hopefully been mostly in a good position we have an almost endless "flattening of the curve".
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
7,501
3,106
118
Country
United Kingdom
It has been restricted as much as the constitution allows. The service sector (current estimates 35-40% of small businesses) is the sacrifice.
Not at all; small businesses need not be 'sacrificed' by coronavirus restrictions, if they merely receive adequate support from the government. Governments have chosen not to provide that support.

Our borders are always open to citizens and permanent residents, and some of them have no brains to speak of.
Returning citizens and permanent residents made up a minuscule proportion of international traffic, even in early 2020. That level of international traffic could have been facilitated with mandatory screenings and proper testing/ tracing procedures. Instead, we had continuing international travel on a much larger scale, and non-functional testing/tracing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan