A public beating... against a child

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BiscuitTrouser

Elite Member
May 19, 2008
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Daystar Clarion said:
Father Time said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Father Time said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Different cultural standards.

Judging them based on Western standards is ridiculous.
*cough*bullshit*cough*

Different cultural standards does not give them license to do something immoral.
Immoral by who's standards?

Again, cultural views vary widely across the globe. Who are you to say they're 'wrong'?
Why does that only apply when the scumbag in question is from another culture? "It's the norm in their culture" does not make it any more OK.
If you are in someone's country, you abide by their laws and respect their cultural expectations.

I fully expect to be treated differently if I stole something here in the UK as opposed to something in the Middle East.

Again, you're judging them based on your own cultural standards of what is right and what is wrong.
Heres where im going to stop you because ive seen this arguement trotted out again and again and i hated it so much i read a freaking book about the whole issue to clear it up for me. Its called the moral landscape.

Its about determining through logic and sociatal gain what is morally right or wrong independant of cultural or social bias, a true jugde of what is right based on the most arbitrary "good" or "bad" done. Now of course you can focus on those two words back there because THEY are constants rooted in our social sphere and thus are as bias as anyone elses opinion. Of course what we can do is set ourselves two ends of a spectrum. One end is where everyone is suffering as much as they humanly can all the time. And one is where no one is suffering ever. Of course suffering being fairly relative this raises issues, but we are going to assume pain is bad as is being stolen from.

Of course its fair to say that handing over to the proper authorities causes less suffering than beating a child in the street while people watch. Its also noted that sadistic pleasure like that gained by those watching and laughing doesnt factor into our reasoning here, its VERY counter intuitive to society and also damaging to actively show an aversion toward empathy with others.

Thus independant of what my culture says i can legitimately say that, based on many options, the one chosen here was willingly causing more suffering than any other easier option that could have been taken, and thus is wrong.

A quote from the book is a woman who was questioned:

"If a society said, by culture, not by religion, dictated that every third child must be blinded at birth what would you say?"

The woman said:

"No one can tell them they are wrong".

I dispute that womans claim just as i dispute yours.
 

Comando96

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May 26, 2009
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bloodmage2 said:
Are you high? Of course we can fucking judge them, they did something wrong, no amount of PC or cultural tolerance will change the fact that they caused unnecessary harm to a child in public, nor does it change the fact that a large group of people stood idly by and allowed a another person to come to harm. "Oh they don't know better", yes the fucking do. There is an ingrained, instinctual impulse to prevent harm to other humans, we are a social species, we protect our own, what do you think boot camp is?
Would you judge the moral standard of a Roman man by that of a man or woman in today's society?

No... you can try but it would be pointless.

This is sadly the same.
 

LokiSuaveHP

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Feb 21, 2010
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Daystar Clarion said:
Father Time said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Different cultural standards.

Judging them based on Western standards is ridiculous.
*cough*bullshit*cough*

Different cultural standards does not give them license to do something immoral.
Immoral by who's standards?

Again, cultural views vary widely across the globe. Who are you to say they're 'wrong'?

I also think it is abhorrent, but I also recognise that I think it's wrong based on my own standards.

In their minds, I'm sure they believe they're doing the right thing and as long as they're in their own country who permit this type of behaviour, it is 'right' to them.
The Chinese government has been doing this for a long time to circumvent answering human rights abuses. It is often argued in those intellectual circles that based on a Asian (often Confucian) philosophy, individual human rights do not exist. You are born into a situation where you have defined ideas of what your relationships with other people need to be.

I call bullshit, but I'm a white, Christian male, so I'm not allowed to. But remember, we're working in a society where the idea of women's rights has just entered the vocabulary of some African countries, so who knows?
 

Kukakkau

New member
Feb 9, 2008
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From what I could tell it seemed the kid did something to the guy's bike but even so there was no reason to stand on his hand and kick him in the face
 

Helmholtz Watson

New member
Nov 7, 2011
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Daystar Clarion said:
Volf99 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Father Time said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Father Time said:
Daystar Clarion said:
snip
snip
snip
snip
snip

Fucking shoot the bastards.
So then Palestinians should shoot(suicide bomb) the Israeli's and the IDF should do the same(minus suicide bombings)? But both sides claim certain land (Jerusalem), so then who has the "right" to uphold their culture in disputed places like that?
 
Dec 14, 2009
15,526
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0
BiscuitTrouser said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Father Time said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Father Time said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Different cultural standards.

Judging them based on Western standards is ridiculous.
*cough*bullshit*cough*

Different cultural standards does not give them license to do something immoral.
Immoral by who's standards?

Again, cultural views vary widely across the globe. Who are you to say they're 'wrong'?
Why does that only apply when the scumbag in question is from another culture? "It's the norm in their culture" does not make it any more OK.
If you are in someone's country, you abide by their laws and respect their cultural expectations.

I fully expect to be treated differently if I stole something here in the UK as opposed to something in the Middle East.

Again, you're judging them based on your own cultural standards of what is right and what is wrong.
Heres where im going to stop you because ive seen this arguement trotted out again and again and i hated it so much i read a freaking book about the whole issue to clear it up for me. Its called the moral landscape.

Its about determining through logic and sociatal gain what is morally right or wrong independant of cultural or social bias, a true jugde of what is right based on the most arbitrary "good" or "bad" done. Now of course you can focus on those two words back there because THEY are constants rooted in our social sphere and thus are as bias as anyone elses opinion. Of course what we can do is set ourselves two ends of a spectrum. One end is where everyone is suffering as much as they humanly can all the time. And one is where no one is suffering ever. Of course suffering being fairly relative this raises issues, but we are going to assume pain is bad as is being stolen from.

Of course its fair to say that handing over to the proper authorities causes less suffering than beating a child in the street while people watch. Its also noted that sadistic pleasure like that gained by those watching and laughing doesnt factor into our reasoning here, its VERY counter intuitive to society and also damaging to actively show an aversion toward empathy with others.

Thus independant of what my culture says i can legitimately say that, based on many options, the one chosen here was willingly causing more suffering than any other easier option that could have been taken, and thus is wrong.

A quote from the book is a woman who was questioned:

"If a society said, by culture, not by religion, that every third child must be blinded at birth what would you say?"

The woman said:

"No one can tell them they are wrong".

I dispute that womans claim just as i dispute yours.
You assume that a culture with the least amount of suffering is the 'right' one.

I agree with you, what you've stated makes perfect sense to me, but good and evil are purely subjective ideals. I think it's absolutely fucking stupid that cultures exist that would treat someone that way, but does that mean they're wrong?
 

Haratu

New member
Sep 6, 2010
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In many western countries Asian boys are bullied by white people. This is an opportunity to solve problems in our own countries before criticising others.
 

BLAHwhatever

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Aug 30, 2011
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Watching this kind of videos always triggers the wish for me to be there with some kind of firearm and shoot some kneecaps.
And then it gets me thinking if I'd have done something. I always tell myself I would. God I wish I'm that kind of person if I ever get into a situation like that. The kind that steps in.
 

retyopy

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Aug 6, 2011
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When he started getting dragged away, I just closed the tab. Please, show me all the rule 34 you can, if only it would erase that from my memory[footnote]Don't actaully do that.[/footnote]. Or better yet, just erase those people from history. And give that kid money. Just because.
 

BiscuitTrouser

Elite Member
May 19, 2008
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Daystar Clarion said:
You assume that a culture with the least amount of suffering is the 'right' one.

I agree with you, what you've stated makes perfect sense to me, but good and evil are purely subjective ideals. I think it's absolutely fucking stupid that cultures exist that would treat someone that way, but does that mean they're wrong?
Its less a question of which societies are right or wrong and more of evidence. Brutal, harsher societies die while more caring ones succeed, it may sound horribly emotionless but to get a purely logical view of right and wrong you have to view it by what is best for society, and its proven fact that societies with less suffering thrive (ancient rome) while those that are cannibalistic and harsh tend to fall (aztec nations). One was intelligent, a bastion of knowledge and technology, of thinkers and science. And one sacrificed hearts and skulls to a blood thirsty god. Its not hard to see the evidence racked up here and there.
 

SpaceBat

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Jul 9, 2011
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Father Time said:
The bystanders are not monsters, people have done experiments where they fake a kidnapping and most people do nothing (or call the police then do nothing). And don't give me that bullshit that you're different and that you'd do something else. Unless you stumble onto a crime that you were not expecting to see and were not prepared for, you can't say for certain how you'll react.
While I cannot tell you my exact reaction to such a situation with 100% certainty, as I have never witnessed such an event myself, I can most definitely tell you that my reaction would not be in any way similar to the bystanders of that event.

Have you read the article? The bystanders not only didn't call the police, attack the assailants (though this wouldn't be a great idea, seeing as there were ten of them) or ignore it entirely, they cheered the ten rapists on as they assaulted a 15 year old child for over two hours out in the open. I can't help but see your implication that the person you're quoting (and anyone else here) isn't different and wouldn't do something else as an indirect insult.

There is no downside to at least calling the police, so anyone who could not bring themselves to pick up the phone and call for help is a disgusting human being in my eyes, even if the Bystander Effect is in effect. The cheering bystanders however are nothing short of monsters to me.


Father Time said:
The Bystander Effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the bystander effect imply that people will push away responsibility and preferably ignore the problem entirely when there are other people around? I'm not sure if it's as simple as that, seeing as people not only chose to view the beating, but cheerfully comment and chuckle as well. This kind of behavior is outside of what the bystander effect implies as far as I know.


BiscuitTrouser said:
I refuse to be branded by any brand that they have also
You are absolutely right. By saying that I hate people in general, I spread my hatred for these people to the race as a whole, which is nothing short of an insult to normal people like us, seeing as there's nothing remotely comparable between people like that and people like us. I apologize for my stupidity.
 
Dec 14, 2009
15,526
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Volf99 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Volf99 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Father Time said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Father Time said:
Daystar Clarion said:
snip
snip
snip
snip
snip

Fucking shoot the bastards.
So then Palestinians should shoot(suicide bomb) the Israeli's and the IDF should do the same(minus suicide bombings)? But both sides claim certain land (Jerusalem), so then who has the "right" to uphold their culture in disputed places like that?
I don't know enough about that situation to make an informed judgment. Sounds like a clusterfuck to me though.

I'm not a philosspher, I just raise an annoyed eyebrow when people scream bloody murder.
 

Jak23

New member
Oct 1, 2010
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That's nothing, there's a video from North Korea of a girl getting run over by a car, and people just walked by, then to salt the wound another car runs over her...
 

Faladorian

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May 3, 2010
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Daystar Clarion said:
Immoral by who's standards?

Again, cultural views vary widely across the globe. Who are you to say they're 'wrong'?

I also think it is abhorrent, but I also recognise that I think it's wrong based on my own standards.

In their minds, I'm sure they believe they're doing the right thing and as long as they're in their own country who permit this type of behaviour, it is 'right' to them.
Even I, a man with the utmost hatred and intolerance for small children, agree this is absolutely wrong, regardless of culture.

A child's pre-frontal cortex is not developed enough at such a young age to be able to make the assumption that what they do is indicative of their true nature. They actually lack brain matter. Stepping on the child's arm as a form of punishment for petty thievery is not an okay solution by the standards of any non-sociopathic human's empathy. It's just plain wrong, cultural differences be damned.
 

Helmholtz Watson

New member
Nov 7, 2011
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Daystar Clarion said:
Volf99 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Volf99 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Father Time said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Father Time said:
Daystar Clarion said:
snip
snip
snip
snip
snip

Fucking shoot the bastards.
So then Palestinians should shoot(suicide bomb) the Israeli's and the IDF should do the same(minus suicide bombings)? But both sides claim certain land (Jerusalem), so then who has the "right" to uphold their culture in disputed places like that?
I don't know enough about that situation to make an informed judgment. Sounds like a clusterfuck to me though.

I'm not a philosspher, I just raise an annoyed eyebrow when people scream bloody murder.
hmm...well fair enough I guess.
 
Dec 14, 2009
15,526
0
0
BiscuitTrouser said:
Daystar Clarion said:
You assume that a culture with the least amount of suffering is the 'right' one.

I agree with you, what you've stated makes perfect sense to me, but good and evil are purely subjective ideals. I think it's absolutely fucking stupid that cultures exist that would treat someone that way, but does that mean they're wrong?
Its less a question of which societies are right or wrong and more of evidence. Brutal, harsher societies die while more caring ones succeed, it may sound horribly emotionless but to get a purely logical view of right and wrong you have to view it by what is best for society, and its proven fact that societies with less suffering thrive (ancient rome) while those that are cannibalistic and harsh tend to fall (aztec nations). One was intelligent, a bastion of knowledge and technology, of thinkers and science. And one sacrificed hearts and skulls to a blood thirsty god. Its not hard to see the evidence racked up here and there.
Fail post. Ignore please.
 

dead.juice

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Jul 1, 2011
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One Hit Noob said:
And this is why people hate China. Sick and disgusting.


dead.juice said:
Best case scenario: The kid was a thief, and they were humiliating him?
No, that doesn't even work, he's just a damn kid.
It's a good thing for the kid's sake that Asians hit like complete pussies, it'll take a dozen of them kicking you at the same time to break skin.
If I lived there and saw something like that, that's the kind of shit that would turn me into a neighborhood serial killer.
Actually, we shouldn't bother getting worked up over this, there is much MUCH worse out there. As horrible as it sounds, this kid got off lucky.
Hey! I'm Asian!
I apologize, I didn't mean that in a racist way. Not all Asians hit like pussies.
But Asians aren't all fat-asses like Americans, so they don't have as much weight to throw around.
(^=^')
 

Quiet Stranger

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Feb 4, 2006
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I work with kids for a job and this just makes me absolutely sick. I have to go spend five minutes now just to calm down!!! GGGRRR