A Question for all you Global Warming skeptics

drunken_munki

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Nov 14, 2007
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What irritates me is that, regardless of what the case is, a large proportion of people and organisations are using the 'green' thing for self promotion and profit. I can't stand that.

In addition, regardless if whether global warming is happeneining or not, the main issue of non-sustainability is being overlooked. Commercialism has pushed our habits out of control. I read somewhere, sorry no link, that at current useage of the worlds resourses, we are using 4x our planets worth. Guess what, we don't have 4 planets.

So even if global warming isn't a big deal, we still will run out of shit in the near future. I think it was noted to be 2030 or something. We need to stop wastage, regardless. That includes fuel amongst other commodities, and technology and all the random shit we buy.
 

Maphysto

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Dec 11, 2010
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The simple reason why people are against global warming is the same reason the Tea Party exists....paranoid idiots being drafted by the Right to fight for corporate interests.

If a corporation were to actually start complying to EPA regulations and make an actual effort to lower the damage they cause to the environment, it would cost them billions. They could afford it, of course, but they just can't stand the idea of having a pension that's only 10 billion instead of 15. So, they get everyone they can to scream and holler that global warming is fake and a plot by big government to take away their rights. Which isn't that hard, since most of the same people already think science is some sort of Satanic conspiracy to disprove the Bible.
 

Tom Wells

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Apr 20, 2011
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I've had a read through this thread and I'm shocked at how many fundamental mistakes there are. I'd like to say before my rant that I do know what I'm talking about. I'm just about to finish a Master's degree in Climate change at the University of Exeter. (http://geography.exeter.ac.uk/postgraduate/taught/maclimatechange/)

The ozone hole is not related to global warming, it was caused by CFCs which are have been banned in 99% of countries since 1992. CFCs are greenhouse gases as are HCFCs which replaced them
Anthropogenic impacts on global climate are measurable and have caused temperature increase at roughly the same rate as natural change since the industrial revolution. In short, humans have doubled the rate of warming.
Carbon dioxide is the most important greenhouse gas, even though it is not the most potent as greenhouse gases go, its atmospheric concentration and quantities emitted (even just counting anthropogenic sources) far outweigh any other greenhouse gas (CO, H2O, NOx etc.).
Solar cycles do play an effect, solar radiation works on 11-year cycles of cooler and warmer but these are very minir changes in comparison to the temperature increases seen since the instrumental record began (about 170 years ago in Europe).
All the people above which mentioned large climate changes over geological time only have half the story. Following the pattern backed up by climate proxies such as ice cores, sediment cores, tree rings etc. we should be cooling rather than warming. Furthermore since the last ice age ended (10,000 years ago) the world has experienced a freakishly warm climate, the problem is that human civilisation has gotten used to this and our economic systems are woefully unprepared for changes more than about +2 degrees C compared to pre-industrial levels.
What really made me want to gouge my eyes out was the repeated claim above that thw world is cooling down. It is not, some areas are cooling but the mean, surface temperature of the Earth is increasing, atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations are the main cause of this, humanity as a whole is the largest emitter of carbon dioxide and other grenhouse gases.

If you want more evidence and more in-depth scientific discussion have a look at the IPCC's 4th Assessment Report (4AR). Over 1000 the worlds leaders in their various fields authored the 4AR and is a combination of all published papers related to climatic change. It is fre to download as a whole or in parts from (http://www.ipcc.ch/). Unless you are an expert in climate science, I recommend looking at the Synthesis Report summary for policymakers. It's written so non-experts can have an informed opinion.

Just for the record I do belive climate change is happening, the world is warming up, humans are the thing that is making this change dangerous, however I do not think we can stop it without causing greater problems. Adaptation is the only option we have left.
 

Valkyrie101

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May 17, 2010
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DRobert said:
Who in government? Plenty in the opposition but none that I've heard from in the government (at least, not federal).

What I don't get is why people fail to see the benefit of transitioning away from fossil fuels aside from preventing global warming. Surely people realise that non-renewables are, by their definition, non-renewable. Move towards renewables and you avoid energy price spikes when the non-renewables run out (see the rising price of oil). Be an early moving country and your country is better positioned to capitalise when other countries make the transition later.
This. I'm not sold on global warming, one way or the other, but the fact is that irrespective of the truth, oil, gas and coal are very, very finite resources. Therefore, we obviously need to shift towards cleaner renewable fuels.

The problem is that there's an easy solution: nuclear power. However, the "greens" hate it, and would rather we stopped using electricity except when absolutely necessary, and built millions of wind turbines. Same with hydrogen. The environmentalists are halfway right, but their methods are totally wrong.
 

SomethingUnrelated

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bdcjacko said:
Here is Kansas City it has been on the coldest, snowiest years for like 3 years in a row. It sure is cold for Global Warming. Then I'm told Global Warming isn't the correct term, it should be called Climate Change. K, the have scientifically proved the climate has been changing for billions of years before man. Big deal.
With all due respect, mate, it is called 'Global Warming', not 'Kansas City Warming'. The average Global Temperature is rising, and we, humans, are assisting that increase. I think the only argument that should be worth discussing now is to what degree we are assisting it, instead of whether or not we play a part at all.

Yes, climate change has happened naturally in the past, but the problem this time around is that we're accelerating it. If we don't start holding back on the way we use fossil fuels, there will be a number of consequences, some of which will be particularly severe. I am totally in agreement with those that say the situation has been blown out of proportion; that's a reasonably judgment to make. People who hardly understand the situation are dramatizing it far too much. But nonetheless, it is something that should be on our minds.
 

darkman80723

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Jul 1, 2009
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artanis_neravar said:
Global warming is a natural occurrence, yes we are speeding it up a bit, but it has happened over and over throughout the history of our planet and attempting to stop it could have disastrous effects. No one (as far as i know) has looked into what might happen if we do stop global warming, just what might happen if we don't. Yes i believe in Global Warming but i also believe we need to let nature run it's course.
Couldnt have possibly said it better myself.
 

TheRealCJ

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Mar 28, 2009
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T8B95 said:
The Earth has been here for 4.5 billion years (don't get me started Creationists, in short, you're wrong). There has been life on this Earth for 3.7 billion years. Humans have been around for at most one million years. We've had advanced industry for a paltry 250 years. That is such a small percentage that my calculator won't give me a proper number when I ask for it.

In all that time, we have been going through constant warming and cooling periods. Before the last Ice Age, there were no ice caps in the world. We now have two major ice caps.

Are you really that arrogant? Are you conceited enough that when a small change happens in the world's temperature, you think that the only possible explanation is that you caused it?

Basically, that sums up my opinion on the subject. Good day to you.
Are YOU that dense?

If we've only been here a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the time that the earth has been around, surely the earth has never experienced something as strange and new as us.

And since our existence and the impact on the planet is unprecedented, who knows what effect we're having on the planet in such a short time. Is it possible that the 250-odd years of human industry could be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

And since we're ploughing headlong into the complete unknown, surely it would be better to err on the side of caution. If you're halfway across a bridge and it creaks ominously, do you a) Proceed exactly as before, safe in the knowledge that "Oh, well, the last half help up without a problem, there's no possible way it could break at this point". Or do you b) Take it a bit slowly.

And no, I don't believe that Humanity is wholly and soley responsible for changes in the temperature. But we're certainly not doing anything to help matters.
 

Koganesaga

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Feb 11, 2010
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Why is everyone just bashing each other or just trying to find a way in which they can be "technically" correct? There are two simple facts here:
1. There is no utterly definitive crushing cause of the major climate change besides that it's gonna happen regardless of what humanity contributes to it.
2. Instead of debating useless bullshit, how about using all that effort to find a way humanity can avoid a horrible and slow death via drowning, starvation, or anything else that could happen as a result of this?

P.S. this is assuming there won't be any viable migration into space in the remote future (or at least before shit hits the fan).
 
Jul 13, 2010
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Rosetta said:
uro vii said:
You didn't happen to come across any of that science that said the activities of humans are causing the second ice age, did you?
You do realise that the second ice age ended over a billion years ago? Also read what I post, its the science. And yes, increased fresh water in the oceans resulting from the melting of the polar caps would halt the flow of the oceanic belts which would cause an ice age.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/06/0615_040614_SouthernOcean.html
 

Fursnake

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Jun 18, 2009
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I don't agree with the Ale Gore-inspired climate change, global warming freakout and I think it is a misleading take on the natural cycles of the planet. However, it is silly to think that humanity is not having an adverse effect on the planet overall, climate included. Yes we need to move away from heavy use of fossile fuels and oil and look to cleaner, more efficient sources of energy, but as long as the people in control keep making huge money off that stuff then the opposition will be overwhelming.

The fear mongering and misinformation of the global warming campaign is just not the right way to go about it.

It would almost be funny if there was another ice age around the corner ala The Day After Tomorrow...almost.
 

himemiya1650

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Jan 16, 2010
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Because we don't really know what's effective, somethings have adverse effects like wind mills and noise pollution, hydro and rerouting water during construction and after construction. The costs are expensive and will be reoccurring because clean energy is at its infancy stage. As well as that we don't know what's cause what effects and to what extent, it only took us a century to figure out that CFCs were not as awesome as we'd have hoped. So basically at this point preventing "Global Warming" (the world is cooling)is pretty much throwing money at a problem and hoping it will go away.
 
Jul 13, 2010
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Rosetta said:
uro vii said:
Rosetta said:
uro vii said:
You didn't happen to come across any of that science that said the activities of humans are causing the second ice age, did you?
You do realise that the second ice age ended over a billion years ago? Also read what I post, its the science. And yes, increased fresh water in the sea resulting from the melting of the polar caps would halt the flow of the oceanic belts which would cause an ice age.
Yes, global warming does indeed sound as though an ice age would occur.

This thread was worth that laugh alone.
I'm sorry, is the science only right when it supports your opinion?
 
Dec 27, 2010
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I think most global warming skeptics believe, not that it isnt happening, but that we're powerless to stop it. This is what I believe, but I believe that we're certainly speeding up the process, and that we can slow it down. However, I doubt that energy will ever be renewable AND sustainable, although I hope hydrogen will replace fossil fuels.