A Question for all you Global Warming skeptics

[T8B95]

The Earth has been here for 4.5 billion years (don't get me started Creationists, in short, you're wrong). There has been life on this Earth for 3.7 billion years. Humans have been around for at most one million years. We've had advanced industry for a paltry 250 years. That is such a small percentage that my calculator won't give me a proper number when I ask for it.

In all that time, we have been going through constant warming and cooling periods. Before the last Ice Age, there were no ice caps in the world. We now have two major ice caps.

Are you really that arrogant? Are you conceited enough that when a small change happens in the world's temperature, you think that the only possible explanation is that you caused it?

Basically, that sums up my opinion on the subject. Good day to you.

Are YOU that dense?

If we've only been here a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the time that the earth has been around, surely the earth has never experienced something as strange and new as us.

And since our existence and the impact on the planet is unprecedented, who knows what effect we're having on the planet in such a short time. Is it possible that the 250-odd years of human industry could be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

And since we're ploughing headlong into the complete unknown, surely it would be better to err on the side of caution. If you're halfway across a bridge and it creaks ominously, do you a) Proceed exactly as before, safe in the knowledge that "Oh, well, the last half help up without a problem, there's no possible way it could break at this point". Or do you b) Take it a bit slowly.

And no, I don't believe that Humanity is wholly and soley responsible for changes in the temperature. But we're certainly not doing anything to help matters.

Who the hell are you to say that the Earth has never experienced anything like what humanity has done to it? Using the example everyone is the most familiar with, K/T extinction had roughly two million times the force of the Tsar Bomba, the most powerful explosion in human history. The K/T extinction was 65 million years ago. Oddly enough, it seems that the Earth is still here. And the K/T extinction wasn't even close to the worst thing that the Earth has lived through.

My point stands: the Earth has been here for longer than a human being can comprehend. It has survived volcanoes, being struck at impossible speeds by large objects, tectonic plate shifts, and glacier movements. It will survive us.

 

[TheRealCJ]

Okay, you can sod right off.

Maturity at its finest.

You're right, I should have just laughed maniacally and completely ignored what the poster I was replying to was trying to explain.

Much more mature.

Let me check something... Nope. Nowhere did I say I was mature; I simply said your post was immature.

Try again?

Uh, no, I don't think I will. Because I still want you to go away and leave the adults to talk.

 

[kromify]

If it is happening then surely this is a good thing! Humanity has hit an evolutionary dead end we are like the Panda. Nothing threatens our reign as absolute masters of our reality so we will continue to slowly slide into a quagmire of our own making.

um... no we haven't. evolution doesn't just stop because we come up with medicines and such. so long as there are people having kids there is selection occurring.

 

[escapistrules]

its not that i dont beleive it is happening, i just dont think it is happening at the rate they claim it is. still, probably not a bad idea to try to take care of the problem now.

 

[Mrglass08]

Since I think any global temperature change has another explanation, such as the variance in sunspots and other factors that are outside of man's control, the need to switch over to some of these programs not only is a huge expenditure of funds but also is unlikely to do anything to help what it is claiming to fix.

 

[Canid117]

I honestly think it's a shame that Americans have yet to adopt diesel as a more mainstream fuel.

We had once upon a time but then the market got flooded with shitty diesel cars from companies trying to make a quick buck by copying Mercedes. The sheer volume of awful destroyed all the public trust in diesel.

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

Those are some awfully big presumptions you're making. I think all of this has more to do with the earth's natural cycle of warming and cooling to do with "global warming"--because as George Carlin once pointed out, how can something that we've been doing for less than 200 years irrevocably screw up the earth worse than anything that's happened to it in the past 4,000,000,000 years it's existed?

That being said, I don't think we should do nothing about pollution and waste. To just ignore it would just be a long, drawn-out process of shooting ourselves in the foot. Of course we need to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels, of course we need to find more efficient ways to deal with waste, and of course we need to make sure we don't cut down every forest left on the planet. Nobody is arguing all of those things are fine and dandy as they are and could never come back to haunt us someday.

What they argue is that we don't need to flip everything upside down this very moment to deal with those problems. We need to let the improving technology run its course and work society into a position to where it is ready for those things when they arrive [sub](and when the oil companies decide they can't hold it back any longer).[/sub]

At this point, the notion of global warming feels like little more than a fad to me. It's worn out. It's just a buzz word, like "abortion" or "gay rights." I think if you want to convince people to be more green, you should stop beating them over the head with videos of stranded polar bears trying to swim for the shore 10,000 miles away, and present the problem as a local issue. You know, on a more human level. Show the long-term affects pollution can have on people and where they live.

 

[artanis_neravar]

The Earth goes through cycles, it gets hot, then it gets cold, then it gets hot, then it gets... I think you get the idea.

What do you think the Ice Age was? "Ugh those darn cave men drivin their hummers about and ruining out planet!"

The Ice Age and Global Warming are two completely different things.
It's been proven that in the past 100-110 years, Human Activity, whether that be mass deforestation or burning of fossil fuels have drastically peaked CO2 levels in the atmosphere.
It's also been proven that more CO2 = more infrared radiation that can't escape through the atmosphere (heating basically...)

No the Ice Age and Global Warming are exactly the same thing

 

[bdcjacko]

Here is Kansas City it has been on the coldest, snowiest years for like 3 years in a row. It sure is cold for Global Warming. Then I'm told Global Warming isn't the correct term, it should be called Climate Change. K, the have scientifically proved the climate has been changing for billions of years before man. Big deal.

With all due respect, mate, it is called 'Global Warming', not 'Kansas City Warming'. The average Global Temperature is rising, and we, humans, are assisting that increase. I think the only argument that should be worth discussing now is to what degree we are assisting it, instead of whether or not we play a part at all.

Yes, climate change has happened naturally in the past, but the problem this time around is that we're accelerating it. If we don't start holding back on the way we use fossil fuels, there will be a number of consequences, some of which will be particularly severe. I am totally in agreement with those that say the situation has been blown out of proportion; that's a reasonably judgment to make. People who hardly understand the situation are dramatizing it far too much. But nonetheless, it is something that should be on our minds.

With all due respect, you are 17, and I don't get my science from kids. I know Kansas City isn't the center of the world. And it is not indicative of the entire world. But weather patterns have been getting cold across the American Midwest for the past 3 years. So it makes me a little skeptical that I see it getting colder while being told it is getting warmer.

Plus the science is also saying we are due for an ice age. The science is also saying that when the ice caps melt, it will dilute the salinity of the ocean, which will in turn screw up the gulf stream and other warm current that keep places like England warm, thus making it colder there. Which some have speculated will help trigger an ice age.

I've also heard it isn't the amount of carbon and other green house gases, but the amount of reflective surface on the earth. Plenty of dark blue seas will raise the temperature by absorbing heat. While on the other hand ice caps and glaciers are white and reflect that heat back out to space, and there is a certain amount of ice that will just cause so much heat and energy to be reflected back into space that it could bring about a total ice covered earth.

I've heard volcanoes spew more green house gases than all of humanity ever has. I've also heard that refuted, then heard it backed up again.

I've heard that lead researchers of global warming have skewed data to make it fit their hypothesis.

So I've come to the conclusion, fuck it all, the earth is going to do what it is going to do. So I'm not too bothered by it, but I am skeptical of any information put forth saying the world will end.

Hell I remember back in the 1990's, before you were born on Earth Day and Arbor Day specials, Global Warming Advocates saying New York City would be under the ocean by 2015 if we didn't reverse the green house gases being pumped into the air. Since then, we as a world, have continued to pump the same if not more gases into the air, and New York City is still above water. I know, they have 3 and half more years, but I really don't see the ocean raising by 10 feet a year.

I grew up being forced to watch tree hugging hippy tree hugging crap about deforestation, pollution, a depleting ozone, and the end times just being 20 years away. It has been 20 years, and now there are more snow days than ever.

 

[Kinokohatake]

So what we are suggesting here is that even if we are having very little impact on the supposed global warming, we should still levy fines, infringe on freedoms, drive up costs all because it's the right thing to do?

Should we recycle? Yeah
Should we conserve? Yeah
Should we find alternate forms of energy? Yeah

Should it be illegal to not do any of those things? No

 

[oooooooooooooooooooooooooo]

Yes, because as we all know, as the heat increases, melting the ice caps, MORE ice will form.

Yes, the heat that melted the polar caps will allow more ice to form. Indeed. Ice thrives during a global shift towards heat.

Hell, it's easy to show! What you do is put some ice in a cup, set it in the sun and wait for the ice to melt. What will happen? The cup will freeze!

Bahahahahahaha.

Right, so what you're saying is because you can't understand a basic concept it must it must be wrong? This is the science, and I seem to remember you being the one who said that the science was right.

 

[darksakul]

There have been 6 major extinctions wherein the majority of the Earth's life died that we humans know of. All of them happened before we were here and all of them happened due to massive climate change. The ice age was the most recent.

Humans do not affect the climate.​

The Earth will cool and warm long, long after we go extinct and the cycle of life and death will be unaffected.

The hippies are wrong. The science is right.

I would call myself a skeptic of anthropogenic global warming theory, as far as actual global warming is concerned I have no problem with believing that.

I'm under the belief that many people who claim that "it's all our fault and we should punish ourselves for our sins" transcend scientific findings and promote a view that is political and even religious in nature. Should we have clean air and water, absolutely. Should we hold companies accountable when they pollute at an unacceptable level, yes. Should we destroy private industry out of blame and spite when an analysis of variance would suggest that human involvement might be much more manageable than doomsayers are suggesting? No, I don't think that's the answer.

To many people, this is about clean air and water, renewable energy, and general stewardship over the earth. I can respect that viewpoint because it makes sense to have a healthy environment for a variety of arguments. But when people take global warming and "going green" and turn it into a weapon to guilt us into doing what they want us to do, that's where I personally draw the line.

To me, there's very little difference between the college student telling me to pay to large foundations (i.e. corporations) for repentance for carbon credits and a Catholic priest telling me to pay a tithe to the church for repentance of my lack of virtue.

Sorry for the rant, I hope I got my point across without being obnoxious and without even being your target...

These two summed up my feelings on this issue better than I could in my own words.

 

[TheIronRuler]

I don't like the whole movement, but 'tis understandable to want a change.
What concerns me more than our poor mother earth is the lack of resources and our need for new energy sources, preferably infinate ( Solar).
If this carries on we will have wars over oil and gas fields, we will see nation destroyed due to these wars and nations becoming extremly rich for owning a piece of land.
We will.... wait... we are already experiencing it. Therefore we're fucked and we can't change jack.

 

[The Rockerfly]

Prove to me there is irrefutable evidence that climate change is caused only by human beings and I will buy a hydrogen car.
I'm all for new energy but I can't see it happening until the masses cannot afford coal and oil or climate change is proven to be by human beings. There is evidence but there is evidence on both sides, nothing to truly blow the other out the water so I'm standing on my comfort side thank you

 

[TheRealCJ]

The Earth has been here for 4.5 billion years (don't get me started Creationists, in short, you're wrong). There has been life on this Earth for 3.7 billion years. Humans have been around for at most one million years. We've had advanced industry for a paltry 250 years. That is such a small percentage that my calculator won't give me a proper number when I ask for it.

In all that time, we have been going through constant warming and cooling periods. Before the last Ice Age, there were no ice caps in the world. We now have two major ice caps.

Are you really that arrogant? Are you conceited enough that when a small change happens in the world's temperature, you think that the only possible explanation is that you caused it?

Basically, that sums up my opinion on the subject. Good day to you.

Are YOU that dense?

If we've only been here a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the time that the earth has been around, surely the earth has never experienced something as strange and new as us.

And since our existence and the impact on the planet is unprecedented, who knows what effect we're having on the planet in such a short time. Is it possible that the 250-odd years of human industry could be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

And since we're ploughing headlong into the complete unknown, surely it would be better to err on the side of caution. If you're halfway across a bridge and it creaks ominously, do you a) Proceed exactly as before, safe in the knowledge that "Oh, well, the last half help up without a problem, there's no possible way it could break at this point". Or do you b) Take it a bit slowly.

And no, I don't believe that Humanity is wholly and soley responsible for changes in the temperature. But we're certainly not doing anything to help matters.

Who the hell are you to say that the Earth has never experienced anything like what humanity has done to it? Using the example everyone is the most familiar with, K/T extinction had roughly two million times the force of the Tsar Bomba, the most powerful explosion in human history. The K/T extinction was 65 million years ago. Oddly enough, it seems that the Earth is still here. And the K/T extinction wasn't even close to the worst thing that the Earth has lived through.

My point stands: the Earth has been here for longer than a human being can comprehend. It has survived volcanoes, being struck at impossible speeds by large objects, tectonic plate shifts, and glacier movements. It will survive us.

Probably.

But will we survive us?

I don't honestly thing people are concerned about the Earth as a lump of rock in space. But the Earth as we sit on it. And we should be doing everything we can to ensure that it's not this generation (or the one after us, or after them, or etc.) that cocks it up for any and all generations to come.

Humans already have the means to prolong the species far beyond what nature intended for it. Most of human history has been a drive to prolong the species far beyond what nature intended for it. But when we use up a definitely finite resource without trying to find an alternative (Think about it, where in the planet's history has there been such a massive drain on unreplenishing resources like oil?), that's going to make it all the harder for future humans to survive. Especially if the earth is gearing up for another massive climate shift as you seem to be suggesting.

 

[quantumsoul]

I think the debate is more of "is global warming a natural cycle or are we the cause of it?".

The earth a big place I'm not sure if we can influence global temperature positively or negatively.

It may be a better idea to adapt to the climate change rather than try to stop it.

I just wish there was an easy solution especially for the people of island nations that will eventually be inundated by water.

 

[Damien Granz]

Here's the deal. Global temperatures are rising, and human activities have either cased and/or accelerated these changes, and these changes will have negative effects on human society as it is today, and no current scientific body holds a dissenting opinion on this (though some have taken the stance of effectively 'no comment').

Global Warming means that the mean temperature of the globe warms, not that the entire world instantaneously bakes into a desert or a tropical ocean in a day. This does mean that some places will experience turbulent weather, such as snow storms, and relatively brief periods of cool down as the Arctic and Antarctic regions heat up and melt.

Global mean average temperature rising produces heat where it's not wanted which evaporates seawater and glaciers, and the added moisture displaces air creating hurricanes and rainstorms, and if it's already cold enough, snowstorms and blizzards. These weather patterns will temporarily cool down the areas they happen in for short periods, even if the average temperature of that area rises.

So you will experience periods of extended cold, as well as periods of extended heat, even if the mean temperature is rising at all times.

If you already live in an extremely temperate area, these extremes will be less so, for the time being. Because it's an increase in averages, not "Every day becomes 80 degrees".

Think of it as filling a bathtub with water, and your temperature being floating ducky. When you dump the water in, wave formation will cause your duck to sink and bob up high for a while until the turbulent period is over, even when the water level is globally always rising. Then, eventually your area will rise up. Now imagine you're a rubber ducky, and next to you is a very tall sailboat. The sailboat will rock into new lows and heights than you, but will remain taller than you regardless because it already is taller than you. When the water rises everybody up, it doesn't necessarily mean that all areas rise to the same height. The ducky will still be shorter.

I hope this cleared some things up for people that don't understand global warming or climate change in general.

It's not the same as just heating up a microwave oven and expecting that a uniform heat will envelope everything at once, and it's not counter intuitive to say that the GLOBE is heating up, while some parts will experience heat and cold spikes and turbulent weather associated with what people think of as the 'cool' season (IE, rainfall or snow).

 

[punkrocker27]

500 years ago it was common sense that the world was flat.

That's a common myth, actually. It has been common knowledge for at least the last couple of thousand years that the earth is roughly spherical.

Common knowledge among scholars, perhaps, but not to the commoners themselves.

 

[TheRealCJ]

-snip-

Those are some awfully big presumptions you're making. I think all of this has more to do with the earth's natural cycle of warming and cooling to do with "global warming"--because as George Carlin once pointed out, how can something that we've been doing for less than 200 years irrevocably screw up the earth worse than anything that's happened to it in the past 4,000,000,000 years it's existed?

That being said, I don't think we should do nothing about pollution and waste. To just ignore it would just be a long, drawn-out process of shooting ourselves in the foot. Of course we need to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels, of course we need to find more efficient ways to deal with waste, and of course we need to make sure we don't cut down every forest left on the planet. Nobody is arguing all of those things are fine and dandy as they are and could never come back to haunt us someday.

What they argue is that we don't need to flip everything upside down this very moment to deal with those problems. We need to let the improving technology run its course and work society into a position to where it is ready for those things when they arrive [sub](and when the oil companies decide they can't hold it back any longer).[/sub]

At this point, the notion of global warming feels like little more than a fad to me. It's worn out. It's just a buzz word, like "abortion" or "gay rights." I think if you want to convince people to be more green, you should stop beating them over the head with videos of stranded polar bears trying to swim for the shore 10,000 miles away, and present the problem as a local issue. You know, on a more human level. Show the long-term affects pollution can have on people and where they live.

As indicated, I'm hardly an eco-warrior. But I do believe that we should be doing more than we are now.

Things like Hybrid cars are barely a step up from what we are doing now. It's still old-tech, just used in new ways. Science needs to spend more time actually doing cutting-edge research than worrying about what looks good at this very moment.

As I said earlier, what we need is not a stop-gap measure to make it appear as if we're doing the right thing, but a massive shift in our fundamental beliefs and habits. It's happened numerous times over the course of Human history, why can't it happen again?

 

[oooooooooooooooooooooooooo]

Yes, because as we all know, as the heat increases, melting the ice caps, MORE ice will form.

Yes, the heat that melted the polar caps will allow more ice to form. Indeed. Ice thrives during a global shift towards heat.

Hell, it's easy to show! What you do is put some ice in a cup, set it in the sun and wait for the ice to melt. What will happen? The cup will freeze!

Bahahahahahaha.

Right, so what you're saying is because you can't understand a basic concept it must it must be wrong? This is the science, and I seem to remember you being the one who said that the science was right.

Omg. My sides hurt. Stop, please.

You think... making the temp. hotter will cause more ice to form... because the other ice melted and lowered the sea temp. that was being heated by the atmosphere... that melted two continents...

Epic. Pure epic.

Ironic really, that you are now arguing from the point baseless opinions and ignorance when you where advocating science a few minutes ago. And yes, when the belts stop bringing hot water from the equator then the poles will cool down more than enough to stop melting. Enough for much of the polar water to completely freeze actually. The equator will not suffer an Ice age, it will remain hot.