A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist

[kickyourass]

Let me make sure I understand the situation, a guy sees a girl who is very drunk, he knows her well enough to know that she has a serious partner. He also knows that said girl would never ever think of having sex with him if she were sober do I under stand that correctly?

If so then if this guy uses her drunken state to get her to have sex with him (Again knowing that she would NEVER do this sober), he is a douche bag, plain and simple, I don't care if he's drunk too, he's still a douche bag.

 

[intheweeds]

Edit 2: Yes he had also been drinking, but I am of the type that believes, like some posters that being drunk doesn't excuse behavior.

doesn't this negate the morality of the situation just falling on to the guy? I mean if being drunk doesn't excuse behavior, not saying it should, than she was just as much at fault and was clearly able to say no but she didn't so ergo she wanted it too?

that snipped of text is taken out of context. The rest of the edits should answer you question. Yes they are both at fault. I do not disagree she has some blame. I'm asking about what other guys think about this guy. That's all.

 

[MDSnowman]

In my case, I can't drink without getting violently ill. So I'd be in total control of my facilities in this situation. I'd politely try to get her out of the situation because if I said "no" it wouldn't be long before she found someone willing to take advantage of her.

A guy willing to take advantage of a drunk girl is a jerk, pure and simple. Not to mention CRAZY pathetic.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

I'm sure anybody over the age of 25 thats male has had sexual partners that they cant remember the name of, the face of or anything else for that matter due to the first and only contact being under the influence of alcahol. I will hold my hand up and say i have, far more than i care to remember (or not remember).

Sober i have never cheated on a partner and pissed i have had offers that i have turned down on every occasion.

When im single though all bets are off. I've danced with the devil a few times on this one and would probably have had to face the consequences if i wasn't a 6ft skinhead metalhead

All i will say is that you will always doubt her, no matter what she says. If you can live with that then your path is set

 

[castlewise]

Hes not evil but he is a "Mediocre Bad Guy" and like Jack Johnson says, those mediocre bad guys can really bring you down. They can't be defeated and their never going to come around.

 

[trooper6]

So... what? All men are evil and should be castrated at birth?

One of the other points of the phrase "all men are potential rapists" is that our society has built the fiction that the rapist is a scary man you'll jump you from the bushes...but the majority of rapes are not the scary sex offender down the street...or the guy with the 70s mustache...but probably someone you know and assume is a good guy.

Inflammatory statements such as that make sense in some circumstances -- to underline the severity of the situation, using exaggerated statements will bring a more violent response which can be seen by more people.

In this case, I don't see the necessity. The language is extraordinarily misleading and plays to a known stereotype. Pitting two factions (male and female) against one another in order to help quell a serious issue between them is hardly logical.

TL;DR: Find a better way to say "All men are potential rapists". Because it evokes a knee-jerk reaction for it's egregious inaccuracy.

But it isn't inaccurate.
The phrase isn't "All Men are Rapists"--which would be not only inaccurate, but also a lie and slanderous.
But "All Men are Potential Rapists"--which is true. You can't tell a rapist by looking at him.
Also 98% of all sexual assaults are committed by men.

Now let's get a specific example. Let's say you have a daughter. She's 17 and she's going to go on her first date with a nice rich, handsome football hero--or computer nerd--or whatever. Are you going to give your daughter no advice to be careful because you don't want to impugn the feelings of the guy she's going to date by implying that the possibility exists that he could potentially rape her? I'm going to give her all sorts of advice in order to help keep her safe. If they guy turns out to be a good guy, then everything is good. If he turns out to be a rapist and I didn't give her any advice on how to protect herself just in case--because I didn't want to hurt his feelings? Then I'd have a hard time living with myself.

 

[Malrock]

It is difficult to say. I notice you have edited to say he was drinking, but how much?

IMO if he was not too far gone or sober, then his mindset is 10 on your scale (disgusting and he would have f**ked her if she was passed out). However, and this is a big however, if he was as drunk as her, then the situation is nullified as they are acting equally irresponsible.

 

[Arafiro]

If the guy was equally as drunk as the girl (hypothetically), then saying one is not responsible for their actions is saying that both are not.

If you're drunk and you murder someone, you're responsible for your actions in that situation.
If you're drunk and get into a sexual situation that you would not otherwise get into, you're suddenly not responsible for your actions. Why? That doesn't make any sense, and is why rape claims based off the girl being drunk are complete rubbish.

You can't really put a number to how much of a douchebag that guy is. Even the nicest guys can change drastically under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
The guy sounds more like an idiot than a douchebag, purely based on the condom thing. Given how the situation reads, neither is more responsible than the other. It's partially his for being so persistent as to continue even though the situation clearly did not warrant such actions, and partially hers for asking for it and not thinking about anything except being with that guy that night.

 

[castlewise]

I'm sure anybody over the age of 25 thats male has had sexual partners that they cant remember the name of, the face of or anything else for that matter due to the first and only contact being under the influence of alcahol. I will hold my hand up and say i have, far more than i care to remember (or not remember).

Sober i have never cheated on a partner and pissed i have had offers that i have turned down on every occasion.

When im single though all bets are off. I've danced with the devil a few times on this one and would probably have had to face the consequences if i wasn't a 6ft skinhead metalhead

All i will say is that you will always doubt her, no matter what she says. If you can live with that then your path is set

I think anyone over 25 is a huge exaggeration. For example, I found a site (Rasmussen Reports) which says that 29% of Americans dont drink alcohol at all. The median number for sexual partners of a man (from ABC and again in the US) is 8. I'm guessing most people could remember all 8.

 

[Snowblindblitz]

I don't know the situation that well. Where were they drinking? Assuming they are of legal age to drink?

Sounds like she broke the big rule of not drinking around friends. You also get drunk for a reason (depressed being the worse one).

She had enough mindset to ask about a condom. That is the main area I call him out on.
You don't just become that drunk magically. She got herself to that state of sobriety for a reason. Not be mean, but most people who get drunk without their partners are looking to cheat. Alcohol is the scapegoat to blame for being caught.

People demonize alcohol too much, because our society is not an honest one. Every facet of it has taught us to lie or blame someone else for our mistakes. Alcohol allows you to always be the victim.

 

[Scrustle]

I personally find that quite disgusting and abominable. I would rate that guy at about 9/10. I understand that you are not fully in control when you get completely drunk, but he should have been aware of that before his actions. Both of them should have. If I were in your situation (being the one cheated on by the girl, right?) I would be absolutely disgusted and furious with both of them and never speak with either ever again.

 

[TyrunnAlberyn]

I would never do this, but then again, I've been accused of being too much a stickler for what's "proper" (so much so that I have at least twice turned down girls who knew I liked them and were inviting me, and one of those cases being because I knew full well she had another partner).

That said, the guy is a scumbag in my eyes, taking advantage of a drunk girl you know has a partner is wrong, having sex with her without a condom only makes it worse. Your girlfriend however would, were she my girlfriend, have become my ex-girlfriend as well. I do realise that she's trying to make a change by not drinking anymore and that she feels guilty over it, however, despite being drunk, she could have said no (like I said, I'm a guy and I have).

 

[SovietPanda]

Ok so i'll admit now im not going to read through all the responses here, mainly cos im too lazy, but with your edits on your original post i feel i can atleast comment on an up to date point of the conversation. I also apologise if im blindly reiterating points already made.

Is the dude a dick for hitting on some chick who probably/definately wouldnt have unless she was sober? If he was stone cold sober, i'd say yea, but you said he was drinking aswell. That can definately give you the courage to try again with someone who's shot you down again and again. That doesnt nessecarily excuse him, but the optimism born on a happy drunkeness can't nesecarily be discounted. And personally i will happily try to get with a girl who has a partner as long as i dont personally like that partner. In my opinion "Infidelity is a sin only for those being unfaithful"

Whether or not consent was explicitly given seemingly you can't give that answer other then he said he didnt have a condom but they still had sex, that is irresponsibility on BOTH parties. And the most information you ca give is that when he said no he didnt "she didn't stop him". So i can't assume there there was any force or coercion involved in this.

The last point worth considering here (in my opinion) is the very fact this girl was in a long standing relationship, that is a very hard thing to forget, even when you are ridiculously drunk. And from your OP, edits, and responses you've given i'm assuming (potentially wrongly) that your in a same sex relationship with this girl. So was she so drunk she was taken advantage of completely? Was she drunk enough to give in to some sexual urges that dont usually manifest? Or was she drunk and horny and didnt care where the attention came from.

But seriously rather then trying to establish a baseline for the male psyche from this one event involving this one random man and your girlfriend. You should in my opinion be focusing you attention on determining the girls feelings and motivations regarding the incident. Whether or not you can trust them to not do it again. And whether or not your relationship has been damaged to a point where you can still continue being together or not. Whether or not this guy is to blame to varying degrees really qualifies as an abstract moral question. In you position, what to do with my relationship from here on out would be my major concern.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Well all guys are different for a start. And when you add alcohol into the mix you fuck up the scale even more.

So basically, there is no answer. It's like asking 'On a scale of 1-10 how likely is a girl at a club DTF?' Everyone's different.

Edit: Personally if I was sober and sensible I obviously wouldn't go for it if she had a boyfriend/girlfriend. Even if she was single I wouldn't exactly leap into the opportunity (taking advantage of extremely drunk girls for sex = not cool). But as I mentioned before, who knows what anyone could end up doing if they're pissed off their head.

This. There are arseholes as well as nice guys. Also drink can make a guy act differently than if he was sober. An even though they say being drunk is no excuse, which is true, but also how about your friend taking responsibility and not getting so drunk that she ends up in that situation? Its like saying just because you leave your front door open that doesnt give the robber the right to rob you.....when in fact you have made home an easier target.

But from what was written, both were wrong. Both were not in control and both fucked up. Next time, dont get so drunk you cant control yourself because thats how this crap happens. Have to take responsibility for yourself as you cant depend on other people to do the right thing ever. Its just not worth the risk.

 

[Ferrious]

I'm sure anybody over the age of 25 thats male has had sexual partners that they cant remember the name of, the face of or anything else for that matter due to the first and only contact being under the influence of alcohol.

Wrong.

I'm twenty seven, I've slept with two females, I know both of their names and their faces. I can recount the life story of both. One is my fiancée and the other is a good friend of mine (she was my girlfriend at the time). However, I have never been into the whole one-night-stand / casual-sex thing. That's not to say I'm not a sexually active person, I just tend to prefer sharing that with people I know and trust.

 

[Navvan]

how bad and/or normal is this guys mindset?

Snip

Skip to the bold of my opinion of such acts.

First off I would like to say that you make an unfair assumption with the quoted statement. He was wasted, he didn't have a mindset anymore than your girlfriend did when she pissed at you. I'm horny, there is something hot, I want to fuck. You can't compare a mind that drunk to a sober mind; Its apple and kangaroos. I would say a wasted female mind is more similar to a wasted male mind than they are to their respective sober genders. Of course personality plays a huge roll but thats independent of gender as demonstrated by your unwillingness to have sex with your wasted girlfriend even though you were under similar intoxication.

That said I find it unbecoming in all situations and disgusting in a repulsive sense. Both the female and the male equally. Thus not in the way where I condemn either party for blame. Of course the level of offense I take to such acts depends on the situation. Long story short from my limited understanding of the scenario your girlfriend is just as much as fault as the horny boy. I'm talking 50/50 with a uncertainty of 2.

Both Sober = Consensual act (the guy is an ass for having a one night stand with your girlfriend assuming he is your friend).

One person sober the other wasted = Statutory rape.

Both wasted = Two horny meat bags responding to biochemical triggers.

I have to assume that not everyone has the same level of self control that you or I do when intoxicated. Otherwise such actions would not happen.

Honestly, I don't see how the male is any more culpable than your girlfriend in this situation unless the woman suggests or states no, and suggest yes is an iffy line due to misunderstandings. In your situation she seemed to explicitly state yes or heavily suggested yes. I see no difference between genders in these situations except for the ability of a man to force himself on a women due to having more muscle mass. Both had urges and had sufficient intoxication to not to be able to comprehend the consequences properly. I would even go so far to say that he is not as much as an ass as someone who would do it while sober (to your sober girlfriend). Because if he did that then he would be intentionally being an ass rather than just being spur of the moment horny.

If you think/know of a good reason why one party should be more or less culpable than the other correct me. I don't consider anything along the lines of "They started it" to be a good reason.

 

[Herr Uhl]

As to all the calls of rapist at the guy, does she consider it to be sexual assault afterwards? If she didn't, is he still a rapist by Canadian law?

In that case you label all men who has had intercourse with intoxicated women as rapists. And this seems bizarre.

He seems like a douche of a high caliber, but rapist is a serious charge.

 

[intheweeds]

Snip

First of all, drawing a gender line in the sand is unwise. There is no "men's opinion". We're all different just like girls are all different. That's not a situation I'd ever be in, so it's an irrelevant question to me.

That kind of act would hypothetically go against the grain of my moral code, but that's for judging myself, not others.

Secondly, the scale you're using is equally irrelevant, as the severity is determined by the VICTIM, not by passers-by. Ask the girl who was taken advantage of what it was on a scale of 1-10.

Maybe they're really into that, drunk or not. That variable could change everything.

I did ask her. We both know what 10 is for her. thats the answer she gave me.

Isn't that more useful information than what we think about it, then?

Since you're responding so quickly, I'm really curious: What have you gotten out of this so far? What do you take away from the response you have received? Hopefully that's clear. I'm not sure exactly how else to word it.

I just know I've had a lot of awesome men in my life and even they have warned me about men. You know when your best friend says things like " no you don't understand, men think differently, you have to be careful. I just want you to be safe", this is both something a good guy does, but to women you can never really know what that means. I've not had a negative experience personally with men until now and its not even directly. I mean i've seen men acting like pigs in bars and its gross and i've heard some of them say some gross things, but this is personal. Of course all men are different and so are all women, but certain views do seem to prevail more than others and I was curious about guys.

I have a better idea of the views of women on this subject and i guess i was just curious about hearing a random cross section of men's views on it, since i'm told by the men in my life that men think differently about sex. Honestly it makes me feel a lot better to hear many of the things that were said. I was never looking to hear a whole bunch of 'rape' calling.

I guess at first i wanted to hear the opinions of men because it happens to be a very touchy subject that i can't really stop thinking about right now. Now I'm actually really happy to hear that for the most part, men agree with me. She is terrible for getting into that position and i have every right to be angry. You have to appreciate if everyone did call rape, I would have felt worse because i am fucking pissed at her right now. How much of a dick am i to be so pissed at my raped g/f? The thought has crossed my mind. She did make the choice to get so hammered.

On the other hand I am right to think he is a disgusting pig and those disturbing thoughts of violence towards him is not unfounded. It would appear most men agree that although he is no rapist, he is most definitely a pig. Which is pretty much how i feel. It turns out we aren't so different emotionally on this subject.

Thank you for asking actually. An excellent question and one i'm glad i though about.