I would like to state first of all that I have a degree in chemistry and biochemistry, and that may or may not be effecting my judgement.intheweeds said:Here is the situation. First of all, notice that I am female so this is most definitely not me we are talking about and the situation didn't happen to me, but never the less affects me deeply. Anyway here is the scenario:
A girl is very drunk. An 8-9 on the 1-10 scale of sober to passed out drooling. You know her, you know she has a serious partner and would never entertain you sober. You come on to her asking if you can touch her. she agrees. she seems into it. She asks you several times if you have a condom and you say no, but have sex with her anyway. She doesn't stop you.
I know scales suck, please explain yourself if you reply. On a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is 'extremely sweet and respectful towards women' and 10 is 'this guy would have fucked her if she was passed out', how bad and/or normal is this guys mindset?
I obviously don't understand male sexuality at all and in my eyes this is extremely disgusting. Like, devastatingly disgusting. I have been in a situation where a girl was naked and begging for it and i left. She was so drunk and horny she was actually pissed at me at the time. But I couldn't have lived with myself the next day, I knew she would never have been there if she wasn't beyond capacity hammered.
What do you think?
Edit: She didn't come on to him, he came on to her and she didn't stop it or say no specifically. I hope that clears that up.
Edit 2: Yes he had also been drinking, but I am of the type that believes, like some posters that being drunk doesn't excuse behavior. In the example I gave of myself in the same situation, I was not only wasted, i was also (for better or worse) super high on coke (it was a long time ago). This means that, yes, she has some blame here for her own actions. She knows that and hates herself, but putting that aside, it's the guys side of this i'm interested in really just now.
Edit 3: I really wanted to try and keep it very impersonal so as to respect the situation and the fact that i have turned to the internet to understand it. I am the 'bloke' she 'cheated' on, so i am very much involved. It is an awkward situation and i love her very much, we have been together for four years and just moved in together. I wish to respect her here - she is absolutely disgusted with herself and can't stop crying. She knows she is wrong as well and neither of us are unclear about that fact, I'm just very curious about men's thoughts about this. Understand I'm not trying to hate on men. My experience with them sexually is limited I just wanted a gauge of your thoughts.
here are some links that might help you understand how attraction/love/lust work
http://people.howstuffworks.com/love4.htm
http://people.howstuffworks.com/love6.htm
beyond that it needs to be understood that alcohol lowers inhibitions in terms of social concerns. It lowers inhibitions by effecting the frontal lobe of the brain, and the pre-frontal cortex which is responsible for logical reasoning.
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro04/web2/epowell.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080403183048.htm
So her reasoning for doing something with him is that her biology was saying yes and her brain ability to say wait your in a relationship you shouldn't do this was highly impaired. Does that make the act wrong? well from a biological stand point, it actually makes her kind of right, humans have two forms of evolutionary advantage one is mating as much as you can with as many different individuals to provide the best offspring, the other is pair bonding and sticking with one mate. From a social standpoint however she would likely be considered very wrong, for "cheating".
What about the guy though? Well from a biological standpoint, once again he is in the right, attempting to reproduce and all that. For a social standpoint it is harder to say, why is this, well we really don't have things from his perspective, perhaps he felt he could be a better provider/mate than you, it can still be considered appropriate to "compete" for a potential mate. Beyond that we don't know if he has any interest at all, perhaps he has been pining for her from afar for a long time, and it took that situation for him to finally act on it. Its also possible that he was just horny, she was available, and she didn't say no (that is almost pure biology there though).
To really give you a true prospective you should ask him. Perhaps he doesn't like you and he was being petty, perhaps he too appreciates your girlfriend and the situation got the better of them(him being drunk preventing him from calculating the social implications of her cheating on you aka the pre-frontal cortex). Perhaps he wants to be in a relationship with the both of you, and he thought this would be a way for him to get in.
I can not answer these questions, the only one who can is him.
Anyone who attempts to do as you ask and rate on a scale of 1 to 10 how his treatment of the woman was does not have enough information to accurately do so, because we only have your/your girlfriends side. We do not know how he feels, or what he was thinking.
Also, your argument that she can get pregnant, so what, he can also choose to pair with her because she is pregnant with his child. If you reject her, and she is alone, it is not unreasonable to think he would volunteer to be there for her, once again, we can't know any of this with out knowing his side.
Something else for you to consider, is asking him if he has a condom, is suggesting that she wants it to go further than him "touching her" unless of course, he first asked if she wanted to have sex. But that would then beg the question as to why she would ask multiple times if he had a condom.
My wife has cheated on me before we got married, I have been there but I understood that it is a lot more complicated than people want to make it. I realize that biology has a lot more of an effect than we give it credit, and I also know from documents the effects of alcohol on the brain. Congrats on your ability to still use your pre-frontal cortex under the effect of drugs, but that does not mean everyone else is like you, also it can mean that you were not having a biological drive to mate with the drunk female as you are also female, yes there is biological evidence for homosexuality, but that does not mean that all people practicing homosexuality have the biology to support it.
wow that was a bit more lengthy than I was intending...