A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist

[CannibalCorpses]

The people who have mentioned rape...*sighs* WTF? If she had been raped she would have mentioned that im guessing...that would be completely different to what has been described.

Well there is no such thing as "rape" in Canada where she is from, but what she described was sexual assault. It's pretty black and white under Canadian law.

Original post quote: "You come on to her asking if you can touch her. she agrees."

Consentual sex while under the effects of alcahol is illegal in Canada? *boggles*

He asked, she agreed...consent. She had plenty of time to change her mind and say no, she didn't. In England where i live that would be the normal way of going about it. It might be rape if you didnt ask her permission first of course...like i said anyway, im out of this. its totally one sided and people are getting far too personal for their own good

 

[ewhac]

I have not read the entire thread so this may have been covered already:

A girl is very drunk. An 8-9 on the 1-10 scale of sober to passed out drooling. You know her, you know she has a serious partner and would never entertain you sober. You come on to her asking if you can touch her. [ ... ]

Uh, no. [em]It never gets to this point.[/em]

If I know her, and I know she has a sweetie, and she's incapacitated by drink, I will not be trying to get in to her pants. In fact, I will probably be orbiting her at a discreet distance to ensure that no one else tries to get in her pants, either.

She asks you several times if you have a condom and you say no, but have sex with her anyway. She doesn't stop you.

Actually she [em]did[/em] try to stop you by asking [strong]multiple times[/strong] about using a barrier. But you ignored the limit and barged past it. (How drunk do you have to be to disrespect someone's boundaries like that?)

I know scales suck, please explain yourself if you reply. On a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is 'extremely sweet and respectful towards women' and 10 is 'this guy would have fucked her if she was passed out', how bad and/or normal is this guys mindset?

Somewhere between 8.00 and 9.25, depending on how drunk he was.

I obviously don't understand male sexuality at all [ ... ]

I'm a male, and I don't understand this behavior, either. But then, I don't tend to drink to excess.

Edit 4: Setting is important here it seems. [ ... ]

Setting is almost wholly irrelevant. Unless it was planned and known to all participants in advance as a "let's get drunk and have indiscriminate sex" party, it was a violation of personal boundaries.

I hope the woman in question suffers no lasting ill-effects.

 

[Stevanchez]

I have no sympathy for your friend. For one, I don't fall for the "I was drunk and a completely different person" bullshit(AKA "the Mel Gibson Defense"). Being drunk does not change who you are, it just lowers your critical thinking which allows you to act on impulses you would usually suppress. You yourself said that being drunk doesn't excuse actions, so that should be the same rule for her. If she drove drunk and got into an accident, would anyone have simpathy for her? No. This is the samething to me. Now I personally would not have sex with a girl that was wasted, not because of a moral issue, but because I don't find a drooling, vomiting, falling over girl very attractive. So, IMO, she is responsible for own actions and safety and she didn't handle herself responsibly and therefore it is her own fault this happened.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I mean, screw "drunk" - if she was half asleep and he did that, then that's really getting into bad territory. And he followed her in there... yeah... that's starting to tip me the other direction on this.

Sadly, I think we need even more clarity. What was HE doing in the farmhouse? Did he slip in like Batman and surprise her in bed? Or was he invited up?

 

[Gingerman]

This happened to me about a year ago at a Uni party.

Girl was being rather handsy with me and tried to keep undoing my trousers in the middle of the party. I kept trying to say no politely but she just took that as a "Lets go somewhere quiet". She then asked if I wanted to come back to hers to talk which I agreed.

She got partly undressed in her room and I told her I'd be right back. I then closed the door and went to sleep on her couch. Next morning she wakes me up apologises and I got bacon and toast afterwords.

All in all a good morning.

 

[red the fister]

All PEOPLE are potential rapists, gender is completely irrelevant.

How is it?

Whether or not the figure is 98% or not, men are still overwhelmingly the perpetrators of sexual assaults, and women are overwhelmingly the victims. Regardless of the generally unexamined horrors of male rape, gender is still a big factor.

you ask how? this is one potential way

handcuffs.
drunk ppl may be willing to try new, kinky things.
man goes into situation expecting to experience vaginal intercourse after the forplay.
man gets handcuffed to the bed.
woman produces an alarming number of bdsm "toys"
many of the toys go up his ass despite his repeated objections
man has been raped.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Actually she [em]did[/em] try to stop you by asking [strong]multiple times[/strong] about using a barrier. But you ignored the limit and barged past it. (How drunk do you have to be to disrespect someone's boundaries like that?)

I have no idea. As drunk as she was to apparently have no idea what was going on, or to be so completely incapacitated as to be fundamentally incapable of giving consent? We don't have any idea HOW DRUNK either of them were. But we need to agree on something. Either...

1. Being drunk is no excuse for acting unethically.
2. You have no idea WTF is going on while drunk.

 

[Kapol]

I think that, if he'd been sober, it'd have been about a 9 on the scale that you listed (the one where 10 was he'd do it if she was passed out). BUT his being drunk as well changes things. If he was as drunk as she was, then I think that both parties are equally to blame. The less drunk he becomes, the more it becomes worse for him to have done it. But I think that saying that what he did was horrible is putting all the blame on him when both sides did consent, even if both sides were also in a state of intoxication.

So basically, had he been sober, it would have been horrible for him to have done. As it stands, it sounds as if he was around the same level of being intoxicated as she was. So I really think that neither side did anything wrong, other thing go out drinking in the first place. Both sides went to the party willingly (I assume), both sides willingly drank until they were out of it enough to do this (I assume), and then both sides agreed to have unprotected sex. So as it stands, I would say he doesn't fall on the scale you gave as he was in a chemically altered state of mind.

 

[red the fister]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Um... ahem.... **raises hand**

Hi. I'm female (just in case my profile name wasn't obvious enough). And I was in pretty much this situation, but with the genders reversed. And I was the seducer.

I'm not much of a drinker. I don't like going over a 3 on the drunk scale. Warm, a little tipsy, but not much more than that. At least not socially.

I've slept with guys who were drunk off their asses. Probably not a 10, cause I doubt they could "function" that drunk, but guys who were way drunker than I was. And there was one case where it was with someone who I knew was dating one of my friends. There were... other issues involved, but it was basically your situation, gender reversed.

So... yeah. Not saying it was right - it was certainly one of my more "super *****" moments, and one I'm not particularly proud of.

But, while I agree that the guy in your situation was a pig, I wouldn't say that it would never happen the other way. Women are as capable of shirking responsibility and taking what they want as men. Trust me.

you don't have the physical capability of getting a guy pregnant and fucking off never to be seen again though. If you actually had a dick would it change how you felt/acted?

but she does have the capability of purposely getting pregnant to secure a portion of a mans income. as do you. as do the vast majority of women.
i'm gonna be nice and assume that both of you nave the scruples to not act on that capability.

edited to remove a copy of a previous post

 

[iphonerose]

So she's sooooo off her face that she doesn't know what she's doing and has sexual intercourse with this guy, but she still has the capacity to ask for a condom, not once but numerous times??
That's all I'm saying

 

[iFail69]

Taking advantage of drunk girls is a big no-no. Taking advantage of drunk girls who you know and know are in a relationship is just unacceptable in every sense.

In my opinion, the guy is an asshole. He knows the girl and knows that she is in a relationship but then still continues... Unacceptable behaviour in my opinion, so on your scale (again, this is wholly based on my opinions and comparisons) I'd rate him at a 9.

Seriously, I can't stand guys like that...

 

[KaosuHamoni]

Yeah the guy's about an 8. He's an asshat.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

Consentual sex while under the effects of alcahol is illegal in Canada? *boggles*

The law does not recognize consent while drunk.

And as I said in another post, its much like S&M. If I tie my gf and take a whip to her butt, I have committed assault. If I tape her mouth closed and have rough sex with her after that, I've committed agrevated sexual assault. Now if I was doing all that because she wanted me to, then I won't get reported and all is good in the world...but I better damn well know what the situation was before we go there.

What if she has nice gentle sex while consenting and then says she didnt consent afterwards?

I wasn't aware the girl in question came out of the encounter battered and bruised, the original post didnt mention this. if thats the case then of course this is different.

 

[Hagi]

10++

The man described is full-on rapist and nothing sort thereof. The individual in question was both in state where she was incapable of giving consent.

Honestly, yeah, the guy is pretty high up there on the douche chart. Seven or eight out of ten. But the girl isn't any better. She's just as guilty as he is.

Guilty of what exactly?

Getting drunk?
Letting someone touch her?
Being incapable of stopping someone as he violates her against her will?

Which one of these is a makes just as "Guilty" as rapist?

You might want to notify your local courts about this.

There's thousands of people in jail right now whose only crime was getting drunk and then being incapable of stopping themselves from doing stupid stuff.

I mean she repeatedly asked him if he had a condom.... Obviously she did not object.

Being drunk is no defence legally. If I drink and drive and cause an accident I'm 100% responsible for that. If I drink and cheat and ruin my relationship I'm 100% responsible for that.

The guy is guilty of nothing except for being an inconsiderate jerk, but he was likely drunk as well. He at least has the excuse of having no prior commitments to anyone else. He didn't cheat on anyone, he didn't betray anyone.

She did have a commitment to somebody. She shouldn't have gotten so drunk in the first place and everything that happened as a result of that is her own responsibility.

Drinking and cheating carries just as much responsibility as drinking and driving.

 

[AVATAR_RAGE]

A clear 10 for both of them. Remember it takes two to tango, you can neither blame the man or the woman, but both at at equal fault.

Simple as that, both should claim full responsibility.