A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist

[gammazuma]

I think it's absolutely disgusting what the guy did, but the girl is totally at fault too. You can't pretend like drinking absolves you of your actions. That's ridiculous.

 

[Stavros Dimou]

Wow.
So she wanted sex,and the man was bad for offering it to her ?
Give me a break please.
When somebody drinks,he/she drops his/her constraints and speaks what he/she feels without first thinking.
If she wanted sex,by drinking she just dropped her shyness some points and let it show up.
Some that wouldn't want sex,wouldn't do it even drunk.
I've get too drunked and I know that I might do or say things I wouldn't if I wasn't drunked,but I believed them.

 

[Grospoliner]

Intoxicated sex = rape. The law states that a person must be fully cognizant and capable of consenting.

My opinion is that this is an insult to all woman who are actually raped.

Drunken sex is not rape, I don't care what the law says, it is not rape.

\

I'm sorry you feel that way (I'm not to be honest, I think you're deplorable). The reason for statues regarding intoxication and consent is due to the frequent use of so called "date rape" drugs such as flunitrazepam (rohypnol). This rape tactic, as it is typically employed, is generally executed by an acquaintance at (typically) a party or social gathering which involves alcohol. The rapist usually administers the drug to the victim to quickly intoxicate and debilitate them. When the victim is inebriated thanks to the alcohol and the narcotic, then the rapist attempts to lure the victim to a secluded location where he can then rape her. Quite often women who have been raped with this tactic will fail to report it, thanks to the stigmatization placed on women by society when it comes to alcohol use and sexual promiscuity.

It is unfortunate that you support this method of rape. Frankly I find it deplorable that anyone could support such a contemptible method of sexual assault.

 

[Virus0015]

Girl was drunk, guy was drunk, go figure. They are equally to blame.

Top tip: Don't get absurdly drunk, or be willing to deal with the results.

 

[jboking]

Here's the thing. There isn't enough detail on the male side of this scenario. If the male feels bad about what he did, it raises him a little closer to 1. If he feels like it was okay, knowing she had a partner, then it is damn near a 10 automatically.

Also, from personal experience I would say that people who are willing to go at it while drunk don't care who it is with, they just want it. Oddly, that tells me miles about your girlfriend, sorry dear.

>puppet account

Trying to greentext on the Escapist? First time here? From 4chan?

Eh, why do I care. You'll be banned or at least suspended in a bit.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm sorry you feel that way (I'm not to be honest, I think you're deplorable). The reason for statues regarding intoxication and consent is due to the frequent use of so called "date rape" drugs such as flunitrazepam (rohypnol). This rape tactic, as it is typically employed, is generally executed by an acquaintance at (typically) a party or social gathering which involves alcohol. The rapist usually administers the drug to the victim to quickly intoxicate and debilitate them. When the victim is inebriated thanks to the alcohol and the narcotic, then the rapist attempts to lure the victim to a secluded location where he can then rape her. Quite often women who have been raped with this tactic will fail to report it, thanks to the stigmatization placed on women by society when it comes to alcohol use and sexual promiscuity.

It is unfortunate that you support this method of rape. Frankly I find it deplorable that anyone could support such a contemptible method of sexual assault.

I applaud this. Or I would, if the OP implied in any way that the man in question plied the woman with alcohol as part of a predetermined plan to lower her inhibitions and/or incapacitate her so as to be able to perform an unfettered and unasked for sexual advance.

Instead, the OP told us a story of two people drinking at a party. One ASKS if he may make a sexual advance, and is told yes, that's fine. It eventually results in sex.

I'm aware that in rape trial in Canada, "drunken consent" is not a defense. However, rape charges were not filed, and whether or not rape charges are appropriate is based entirely on speculation and confirmation bias. There is entirely insufficient evidence to say that this was viewed as a sexual assault by the woman in question. Implying that every single occasion in which a woman who has imbibed alcohol, whether by her own volition or not, and ended up having sex, was RAPE...as you have done here...is patently ludicrous.

 

[Atheist.]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

I'm just going to say this is one of the most sexist statements I've seen on this entire thread. Not only are you generalizing an entire sex, which makes up around half of the human population, but you claim to know the opinions of the other half.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, trust me, but you need a reality check. People are all different. Being sexist is the same mindset as being racist. It's like you're saying all (insert race here) are rapists, or dirty mongrels.

The situation does and has been reversed, it just gets less media attention. I'll stop here, because your ignorance and blatant sexism is upsetting.

 

[Volturism]

Neither party is particularly classy in that situation, the fault lies squarely with both of them.

 

[Darth Rahu]

I would say a seven, I've known worse, but yeah what the hell?

 

[Evidencebased]

As for your girlfriend, I really hope she's doing okay. Whether or not it was rape in the legal sense, it sounds like she did not fully consent and she sounds like she feels taken advantage of. "She doesn't stop you" is not consent in my book, and I doubt it is considered consent by most non-assholes either. If it were my boyfriend or girlfriend I'd probably cut them a lot of slack because this situation sounds a lot closer to rape than to cheating. It's not clear to me how much of conscious decision she was able to make -- even though she was not physically unconscious -- and obviously she's punishing herself over it more than anyone else could.

Really? It sure sounds that way to me. What part of "do you have a condom?" Implies hesitation? If I ask you if you want to go rafting, and you say "Do you have a life jacket", am I meant to presume that means you're not interested?

I understand and appreciate that rape isn't always about shrieking women having their legs pried apart, but I think we need to, at the same time, not trivialize rape and sexual abuse by implying that every lamented drunken fuck is now a criminal offense.

Well if you didn't have a life jacket (as this guy apparently didn't have a condom) then no, I wouldn't be interested in going rafting.

Also, it's not unheard of for rape victims to request a condom before the act, so just asking for a condom doesn't automatically mean she wanted it. It's not clear from the OP whether the girlfriend actually consented to sex after finding out a condom was not available -- maybe she was worried the guy would try to rape her if she said no, and was trying to minimize her risk. We just can't assume that she was gung-ho about sex because of the condom thing.

Unless she verbally consented to sex after being told he didn't have a condom (which the OP didn't say) then I think this was not a fully-consensual encounter -- the fact that she "didn't stop" him doesn't necessarily mean the answer was still "yes" in my opinion.

 

[Grospoliner]

I applaud this. Or I would, if the OP implied in any way that the man in question plied the woman with alcohol as part of a predetermined plan to lower her inhibitions and/or incapacitate her so as to be able to perform an unfettered and unasked for sexual advance.

Instead, the OP told us a story of two people drinking at a party. One ASKS if he may make a sexual advance, and is told yes, that's fine. It eventually results in sex.

I'm aware that in rape trial in Canada, "drunken consent" is not a defense. However, rape charges were not filed, and whether or not rape charges are appropriate is based entirely on speculation and confirmation bias. There is entirely insufficient evidence to say that this was viewed as a sexual assault by the woman in question. Implying that every single occasion in which a woman who has imbibed alcohol, whether by her own volition or not, and ended up having sex, was RAPE...as you have done here...is patently ludicrous.

We are subject to such laws which construe these actions as criminal regardless of the situation, even if no criminal intent exists between either party.

Personally, I would never attempt to have sex with someone under the influence as it leaves me legally open to prosecution.

 

[aashell13]

Edit 4: Setting is important here it seems. This was a work party at a farm out of town. She had worked there for the summer and this was the last night party. She was already hammered and stuck there having planned to stay before he arrived. He was the bosses wife's brother. He apparently came on to her after she had gone to the farmhouse to bed.

This promoted the guy from a 7 to a 15, easy. He went way out of his way to take advantage of your friend.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

snip

I did clarify in the next sentence that those would be my actions if I were the OP, and I did go on to say that she could try to forgive her girlfriend.

I don't expect people to be inhumanly loyal. I know that human beings are fallible. That's exactly why my girlfriend and I have agreed to avoid situations where our (already human) judgement is impaired further.

You did indeed, but it was less of a clarification and more of an afterthought.

Fair enough, I guess. A lot of people wouldn't make the commitment to never drink or even think to make that commitment. I wasn't trying to convince you that what you would do in the situation was wrong, I just thought that you sounded rather aggressive.

I still feel that being forgiving is usually the better choice as offhandedly dumping someone is only going to stir up long-term feelings of resentment. Asking for a 'break' with the relationship might be a good middle-ground instead.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Also, it's not unheard of for rape victims to request a condom before the act, so just asking for a condom doesn't automatically mean she wanted it. It's not clear from the OP whether the girlfriend actually consented to sex after finding out a condom was not available -- maybe she was worried the guy would try to rape her if she said no, and was trying to minimize her risk. We just can't assume that she was gung-ho about sex because of the condom thing.

It's not, that's true. But he does say that the guy "asks if he can touch her", and her answer is "okay". Was he intimidating her at the time? We don't know. The story doesn't really read that way, to me, but these things are so bloody open to interpretation they can be spun half a dozen ways. I maintain that there is MORE evidence to support the theory that she was a willing combatant than to support the fact she was a terrorized victim of sexual abuse, especially when you consider which way the editorial bias of the OP is likely to slant. But I could be wrong. The only person who really knows is her.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Personally, I would never attempt to have sex with someone under the influence as it leaves me legally open to prosecution.

S&M could leave you legally open to prosecution as well. Speculation as to whether or not a crime was committed depends entirely on the perspective of the alleged victim. The OP suggests, to me, that a consensual sex act took place. Your perspective may be different, but there is definitely room there for interpretation.

EDIT: Sorry about the two posts in a row, folks. But look at my avatar! Isn't he jolly?

 

[ScreamSlayer]

Here is the situation. First of all, notice that I am female so this is most definitely not me we are talking about and the situation didn't happen to me, but never the less affects me deeply. Anyway here is the scenario:

A girl is very drunk. An 8-9 on the 1-10 scale of sober to passed out drooling. You know her, you know she has a serious partner and would never entertain you sober. You come on to her asking if you can touch her. she agrees. she seems into it. She asks you several times if you have a condom and you say no, but have sex with her anyway. She doesn't stop you.

I know scales suck, please explain yourself if you reply. On a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is 'extremely sweet and respectful towards women' and 10 is 'this guy would have fucked her if she was passed out', how bad and/or normal is this guys mindset?

I obviously don't understand male sexuality at all and in my eyes this is extremely disgusting. Like, devastatingly disgusting. I have been in a situation where a girl was naked and begging for it and i left. She was so drunk and horny she was actually pissed at me at the time. But I couldn't have lived with myself the next day, I knew she would never have been there if she wasn't beyond capacity hammered.

What do you think?

Edit: She didn't come on to him, he came on to her and she didn't stop it or say no specifically. I hope that clears that up.

Edit 2: Yes he had also been drinking, but I am of the type that believes, like some posters that being drunk doesn't excuse behavior. In the example I gave of myself in the same situation, I was not only wasted, i was also (for better or worse) super high on coke (it was a long time ago). This means that, yes, she has some blame here for her own actions. She knows that and hates herself, but putting that aside, it's the guys side of this i'm interested in really just now.

Edit 3: I really wanted to try and keep it very impersonal so as to respect the situation and the fact that i have turned to the internet to understand it. I am the 'bloke' she 'cheated' on, so i am very much involved. It is an awkward situation and i love her very much, we have been together for four years and just moved in together. I wish to respect her here - she is absolutely disgusted with herself and can't stop crying. She knows she is wrong as well and neither of us are unclear about that fact, I'm just very curious about men's thoughts about this. Understand I'm not trying to hate on men. My experience with them sexually is limited I just wanted a gauge of your thoughts.

Edit 4: Setting is important here it seems. This was a work party at a farm out of town. She had worked there for the summer and this was the last night party. She was already hammered and stuck there having planned to stay before he arrived. He was the bosses wife's brother. He apparently came on to her after she had gone to the farmhouse to bed.

okay, im seriously confused, you say you are you are a female, then imply you are a man, then say you are a man, then imply you are a female.... what? mind= fucked, anyways, there are always differences in situations, say if someone was very unhappy in a relationship and wanted to break up it might have been excusable, but I'll assume you are in a very happy relationship no? Assuming that this guy knew this, he's an asshat. I won't say if it's okay having sex with a drunk girl or not, because " clear headed" and " thinking strait" is a subjective term, but me, I wouldn't have sex with her if she was that wasted.