A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist

[Evidencebased]

Edit 4: Setting is important here it seems. This was a work party at a farm out of town. She had worked there for the summer and this was the last night party. She was already hammered and stuck there having planned to stay before he arrived. He was the bosses wife's brother. He apparently came on to her after she had gone to the farmhouse to bed.

This promoted the guy from a 7 to a 15, easy. He went way out of his way to take advantage of your friend.

Yeah, this edit alone makes me a lot more inclined to think "rape" than "cheating" -- like I said above, if she felt cornered or coerced at all then any self-protective measures like asking for a condom do not mean she wanted to have sex, they just mean she was trying to make the best of a bad situation. Following a drunk woman to her room, knowing she would not normally ever consent to sex and knowing she has nowhere else to go that night, is the kind of thing a rapist does.

 

[Evidencebased]

Also, it's not unheard of for rape victims to request a condom before the act, so just asking for a condom doesn't automatically mean she wanted it. It's not clear from the OP whether the girlfriend actually consented to sex after finding out a condom was not available -- maybe she was worried the guy would try to rape her if she said no, and was trying to minimize her risk. We just can't assume that she was gung-ho about sex because of the condom thing.

It's not, that's true. But he does say that the guy "asks if he can touch her", and her answer is "okay". Was he intimidating her at the time? We don't know. The story doesn't really read that way, to me, but these things are so bloody open to interpretation they can be spun half a dozen ways. I maintain that there is MORE evidence to support the theory that she was a willing combatant than to support the fact she was a terrorized victim of sexual abuse, especially when you consider which way the editorial bias of the OP is likely to slant. But I could be wrong. The only person who really knows is her.

Read edit #4 in the OP... ugh, he suddenly looks a lot more threatening.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Following a drunk woman to her room, knowing she would not normally ever consent to sex and knowing she has nowhere else to go that night, is the kind of thing a rapist does.

OP doesn't specify whether or not the individual in question was invited, or whether he burst in on her unawares. We are being forced to speculate.

 

[intheweeds]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

I'm just going to say this is one of the most sexist statements I've seen on this entire thread. Not only are you generalizing an entire sex, which makes up around half of the human population, but you claim to know the opinions of the other half.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, trust me, but you need a reality check. People are all different. Being sexist is the same mindset as being racist. It's like you're saying all (insert race here) are rapists, or dirty mongrels.

The situation does and has been reversed, it just gets less media attention. I'll stop here, because your ignorance and blatant sexism is upsetting.

It's also the most misunderstood. I apologize for that. I really wish i had been clearer. I was speaking specifically of the biological fact that a man has a penis and the differences between them. A lot of women think you have a responsibility that comes with that. That's all. I'm not trying to be sexist.

I'm not trying to say anything about all men, but look up and you will see some pretty disgusting and vulgar things written by a puppet account about women and lesbians. If some men act like that, I have every right in the world to be wary of the sexual advances of any of them. I would be stupid not too. You will also find if you read this whole thread that although different men have differing opinions, there are a few general things that most generally agree on. That's all generally means. I'm saying I don't know anything about men, but I know women generally believe they wouldn't act like they're fathers warned them men are like if they had penises. It's unfortunate that they some men do act like those men you were warned about.

With both parties being strangers and hammered in a bar and all things equal otherwise, the idiot girls puts herself at risk, where the idiot guy is putting someone else(her) at risk. He has a biological advantage of being able to not answer phone calls and be gone forever whereas she doesn't. That's what i meant by 'parts'.

 

[jboking]

Greentext? Puh-leeeeese, it's a Steaaaaam thiiiiiiing

Yeah. Kay. Also noticed you couldn't figure out how to reply. It's the big blue button in the bottom of each post that says "REPLY"

Just for future reference. Now you can spread your misogynistic message of pure idiocy and actually get the people you are responding to to respond back. Also, the dude is just as much of a whore as the girl, especially concerning he started it.

 

[Wickatricka]

This whole thread is a double standered. I would of done it, just saying...

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Intoxicated sex = rape. Snip

My opinion is that this is an insult to all woman who are actually raped.

Drunken sex is not rape, I don't care what the law says, it is not rape.

\

I'm sorry you feel that way (I'm not to be honest, I think you're deplorable). The reason for statues regarding intoxication and consent is due to the frequent use of so called "date rape" drugs such as flunitrazepam (rohypnol). This rape tactic, as it is typically employed, is generally executed by an acquaintance at (typically) a party or social gathering which involves alcohol. The rapist usually administers the drug to the victim to quickly intoxicate and debilitate them. When the victim is inebriated thanks to the alcohol and the narcotic, then the rapist attempts to lure the victim to a secluded location where he can then rape her. Quite often women who have been raped with this tactic will fail to report it, thanks to the stigmatization placed on women by society when it comes to alcohol use and sexual promiscuity.

It is unfortunate that you support this method of rape. Frankly I find it deplorable that anyone could support such a contemptible method of sexual assault.

I think you're deplorable?
Really?

Because somebody getting drunk of their own accord is totally the same thing as being slipped a drug unawares? And going to a club, getting drunk and then having sex with somebody is totally the same as going to a club with the intention of slipping them a drug and luring them off somewhere to rape them.
At what point did the poster say that he supported any kind of sexual assault?

Drunken sex =/= rape seems like a reasonable enough statement.

 

[Herr Uhl]

Once a woman has ingested alcohol it's Rape simple.

In this case, most married (straight or lesbian) couples have at least one being a rapist. It is a gross oversimplification.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7429007/Sex-with-drunken-women-could-be-rape-review-to-signal.html

Yes. I'm guessing that most give an a-ok the day after. In your original example, a man and his wife having two glasses of wine and then agreeing to have sex makes the male a rapist. It is not illegal to have sex while drunk.

 

[red the fister]

Once a woman has ingested alcohol it's Rape simple.

i call bull shit on this, and on you.
by that same "logic" once a man has ingested alcohol, it's rape.

by your un-reasoning, a couple can't go out for dinner and have a cocktail or two, go home and have wild anniversary sex without raping each other.

 

[fenrizz]

Intoxicated sex = rape. The law states that a person must be fully cognizant and capable of consenting.

My opinion is that this is an insult to all woman who are actually raped.

Drunken sex is not rape, I don't care what the law says, it is not rape.

\

I'm sorry you feel that way (I'm not to be honest, I think you're deplorable). The reason for statues regarding intoxication and consent is due to the frequent use of so called "date rape" drugs such as flunitrazepam (rohypnol). This rape tactic, as it is typically employed, is generally executed by an acquaintance at (typically) a party or social gathering which involves alcohol. The rapist usually administers the drug to the victim to quickly intoxicate and debilitate them. When the victim is inebriated thanks to the alcohol and the narcotic, then the rapist attempts to lure the victim to a secluded location where he can then rape her. Quite often women who have been raped with this tactic will fail to report it, thanks to the stigmatization placed on women by society when it comes to alcohol use and sexual promiscuity.

It is unfortunate that you support this method of rape. Frankly I find it deplorable that anyone could support such a contemptible method of sexual assault.

I did not in any way say that I supported date raping, neither do I support drugging people to rape them.
And to be frank I think you are stepping over the line when you accuse me of supporting date raping.

What I did say was that drunken sex does not equal rape, and it is a very, very long stretch to say that it means I support date rape.

I shall not waste any more of my time defending myself from your baseless accusations.

Good night Sir.

 

[x-machina]

if the guy was drunk as well, I really don't see a problem with it at all. Why is it okay for the woman to make mistakes while she is piss drunk and not the guy? Lets stop holding men and woman up to different standards.

 

[Atheist.]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

I'm just going to say this is one of the most sexist statements I've seen on this entire thread. Not only are you generalizing an entire sex, which makes up around half of the human population, but you claim to know the opinions of the other half.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, trust me, but you need a reality check. People are all different. Being sexist is the same mindset as being racist. It's like you're saying all (insert race here) are rapists, or dirty mongrels.

The situation does and has been reversed, it just gets less media attention. I'll stop here, because your ignorance and blatant sexism is upsetting.

It's also the most misunderstood. I apologize for that. I really wish i had been clearer. I was speaking specifically of the biological fact that a man has a penis and the differences between them. A lot of women think you have a responsibility that comes with that. That's all. I'm not trying to be sexist.

I'm not trying to say anything about all men, but look up and you will see some pretty disgusting and vulgar things written by a puppet account about women and lesbians. If some men act like that, I have every right in the world to be wary of the sexual advances of any of them. I would be stupid not too. You will also find if you read this whole thread that although different men have differing opinions, there are a few general things that most generally agree on. That's all generally means. I'm saying I don't know anything about men, but I know women generally believe they wouldn't act like they're fathers warned them men are like if they had penises. It's unfortunate that they some men do act like those men you were warned about.

With both parties being strangers and hammered in a bar and all things equal otherwise, the idiot girls puts herself at risk, where the idiot guy is putting someone else(her) at risk. He has a biological advantage of being able to not answer phone calls and be gone forever whereas she doesn't. That's what i meant by 'parts'.

I don't think I'd take that crazy asshole's opinion for much (The puppet account guy.) Crazy people do crazy things. For example, Albert Fish ate children and wrote letters to their parents saying how good their child tasted. Countess Elizabeth Báthory de Ecsed kidnapped and tortured virgin women and then bathed in their blood. Some people are just batshit insane. For all we know that puppet account guy could be a woman. Although that's quite unlikely.

Sorry for not reading the entire thread, but it's fairly long at this point and I tend to post once I read something worth responding to. You also have to realize some women also act in similar ways. Women and Men are both capable of being ruthless assholes. Women just usually have a different way of going about it.

In the scenario you originally provided, if all things were equal as you just said, I don't think anyone considers the fact that the man has a biological advantage. They both just wanted to have sex, a primal desire for most. I feel bad for you, because your partner went through this, but they both clearly share responsibility for the actions. Trying to divert blame on him is a poor decision. Accidents do indeed happen, especially when alcohol is involved.

It seems like coming on here and asking men to answer on this is just evading the actual issue here. If I was in a similar situation, I'd evaluate the relationship and decide whether or not to forgive both of them. Clearly I don't know all of the details, but it seems like you both know this guy. Also, the guy is putting himself at risk as well. Not only is he at risk of getting an STD (Not saying your partner has any, but how would he know) but in most countries he'd still be financially responsible for the child, which is why we have such laws. Granted it's not the same as birthing a child and all of that, I know.

In the end, though, both parties made a poor decision, and they'll have to live with that. You cannot change the past by dwelling on it, and you only live once. So get past it as quickly as possible, and move on to enjoy your time while you still can.

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

She knew the risks, by getting averagely drunk in the first place.

 

[red the fister]

Very simple: it's 100% the girl's fault.

Alcohol does not excuse your actions. You got yourself drunk, you're responsible for everything you do while drunk. You know you'll do stupid shit when you get very drunk so the solution is extremely simple: do not get very drunk.

I consider EVERYONE (no exceptions of any kind) that gets as drunk as the person you described to be either immature, depressed or an alcoholic.

Children who don't know how to handle alcohol get that drunk, depressed people who don't care any more get that drunk and alcoholics who can't do without get that drunk. Nobody else as far as I'm concerned.

This means your girlfriend is one of those three. In all cases I'd dump her and tell her to sort herself out. Mature and healthy people do not ever get that drunk. They get intoxicated but they know their limits, they're not children any more.

Either your girlfriend doesn't know her limits or she's incapable of sticking to them. Either way, dump her.

your narrow minded view of the world reeks of someone with virtually no experience with alcohol.

i've drank my bank account dry.
i've drank to escape feelings.
i've gotten absolutely bat-shit pants-on-head retarded because that was my plan when i walked into the bar.
when the good tasting drinks got to expensive i switched to cheaper beer.
on the average drinking night, which happens 2 or 3 nights a week (rarely more) i consume no more than 4 beers and no fewer than 2.
responsibility comes with maturity and you have to survive being irresponsible and immature to get here.
i challenge you, go to your local bar during happy hour, have a beer, make friends, broaden your world.

 

[MasterOfWorlds]

Snip

Personally, if it were my gf in that situation, I wouldn't hold her much to blame. Maybe a lecture on how she shouldn't drink that much, but I wouldn't blame her as A) she obviously wasn't within her usual ability to reason, B) he kept pressing, and though I've never been drunk myself, I understand that it becomes hard to say no, especially for certain people.

As a guy, even if I was single, I would never do anything like that, and I've had the opportunity had I really wanted to. For a guy to be flirty while drunk is understandable, hell I'm flirty even when I'm not, but it never goes beyond playful friendship flirting when I have a gf.

On a scale of 1-10 on what his mindset would be...I'd say at least a 7, maybe even 8, especially since she asked about a condom, and he kept pressing anyway. I'm not like that, and neither are the vast majority of the guys I know. To put it bluntly, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he was with someone, or maybe even married.

I know it might not be much, but that's my two cents, and I hope that it helped.

 

[intheweeds]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

I'm just going to say this is one of the most sexist statements I've seen on this entire thread. Not only are you generalizing an entire sex, which makes up around half of the human population, but you claim to know the opinions of the other half.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, trust me, but you need a reality check. People are all different. Being sexist is the same mindset as being racist. It's like you're saying all (insert race here) are rapists, or dirty mongrels.

The situation does and has been reversed, it just gets less media attention. I'll stop here, because your ignorance and blatant sexism is upsetting.

It's also the most misunderstood. I apologize for that. I really wish i had been clearer. I was speaking specifically of the biological fact that a man has a penis and the differences between them. A lot of women think you have a responsibility that comes with that. That's all. I'm not trying to be sexist.

I'm not trying to say anything about all men, but look up and you will see some pretty disgusting and vulgar things written by a puppet account about women and lesbians. If some men act like that, I have every right in the world to be wary of the sexual advances of any of them. I would be stupid not too. You will also find if you read this whole thread that although different men have differing opinions, there are a few general things that most generally agree on. That's all generally means. I'm saying I don't know anything about men, but I know women generally believe they wouldn't act like they're fathers warned them men are like if they had penises. It's unfortunate that they some men do act like those men you were warned about.

With both parties being strangers and hammered in a bar and all things equal otherwise, the idiot girls puts herself at risk, where the idiot guy is putting someone else(her) at risk. He has a biological advantage of being able to not answer phone calls and be gone forever whereas she doesn't. That's what i meant by 'parts'.

I don't think I'd take that crazy asshole's opinion for much (The puppet account guy.) Crazy people do crazy things. For example, Albert Fish ate children and wrote letters to their parents saying how good their child tasted. Countess Elizabeth Báthory de Ecsed kidnapped and tortured virgin women and then bathed in their blood. Some people are just batshit insane. For all we know that puppet account guy could be a woman. Although that's quite unlikely.

Sorry for not reading the entire thread, but it's fairly long at this point and I tend to post once I read something worth responding to. You also have to realize some women also act in similar ways. Women and Men are both capable of being ruthless assholes. Women just usually have a different way of going about it.

In the scenario you originally provided, if all things were equal as you just said, I don't think anyone considers the fact that the man has a biological advantage. They both just wanted to have sex, a primal desire for most. I feel bad for you, because your partner went through this, but they both clearly share responsibility for the actions. Trying to divert blame on him is a poor decision. Accidents do indeed happen, especially when alcohol is involved.

It seems like coming on here and asking men to answer on this is just evading the actual issue here. If I was in a similar situation, I'd evaluate the relationship and decide whether or not to forgive both of them. Clearly I don't know all of the details, but it seems like you both know this guy. Also, the guy is putting himself at risk as well. Not only is he at risk of getting an STD (Not saying your partner has any, but how would he know) but in most countries he'd still be financially responsible for the child, which is why we have such laws. Granted it's not the same as birthing a child and all of that, I know.

In the end, though, both parties made a poor decision, and they'll have to live with that. You cannot change the past by dwelling on it, and you only live once. So get past it as quickly as possible, and move on to enjoy your time while you still can.

I don't take his opinion for much, i just mention it as an example that people have clearly very different views and i am well aware of that. If i say generally men don't think like that, i would be right. And that guy would still be able to say "hey don't paint us all with the same brush".

It's a very long and unwieldy thread for certain. Understand that your point is well taken about both sides culpability and of course I am tremendously pissed at her too and ll this has come up earlier. I was just curious about this aspect. I personally having known her for four years and having heard the situation find this guy disgusting. Being that the only information i have is pretty much the same vague info i wrote here, having not been there, I was curious what other men's knee jerk reactions to this were. Originally to compare them to mine and find out the general consensus from a group of males. I did end up having some wonderfully helpful conversations i did not expect to have as well.

 

[Nieroshai]

You put me against my character just by the nature of the scenario. I never get drunk, I avoid people who do, I do not go to drinking parties, being in a relationship I wouldn't ever touch another girl, knowing she was in a relationship I'd never touch her. To me, the scenario you gave is brokenly aberrant sexuality that was rare and frowned upon just a couple generations ago when we believed in standards.

 

[Hagi]

your narrow minded view of the world reeks of someone with virtually no experience with alcohol.

i've drank my bank account dry.
i've drank to escape feelings.
i've gotten absolutely bat-shit pants-on-head retarded because that was my plan when i walked into the bar.
when the good tasting drinks got to expensive i switched to cheaper beer.
on the average drinking night, which happens 2 or 3 nights a week (rarely more) i consume no more than 4 beers and no fewer than 2.
responsibility comes with maturity and you have to survive being irresponsible and immature to get here.
i challenge you, go to your local bar during happy hour, have a beer, make friends, broaden your world.

There's this thing called limits. Adults know them and they don't pass them.

If you have to drive you limit yourself to a single glass at the start of the evening, because you know that if you drink more you could cause an accident.

If you're in a committed relationship you limit yourself to get only slightly drunk, because you know that if you drink more you could ruin your relationship by cheating.

If you're out alone you limit yourself to not getting totally hammered, because you know that if you drink more you won't be able to get home and can get into all kinds of serious trouble.

If you're out with friends able to take care of you you limit yourself to getting totally hammered, because you know that if you drink more you'll get alcohol poisoning and get hospitalized.

An healthy adult knows his/her limits. That means that in a committed relationship, as the girl was, you don't get as drunk as she was.

Being irresponsible and immature is fine in and of itself, but it does make you unfit for a serious relationship (as say living together, as the girl in question was). It means you need a parent and not a serious partner.

She should dump her, because her girlfriend is clearly immature and irresponsible and thus not ready for a relationship as serious as living together after having been together for 4 years.

 

[loc978]

Having read the first two and last two pages of this thread...
if the guy was sober, I'd place him at about a douchey, creeper 7. If he was as drunk as her, he could be anywhere from a "normal" 5 to a 10.
Her... sorry to say, but I'd say she registers somewhere 6+ on the same scale. What she did reveals a fair lack of respect for herself.

also:

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

About that bolded part... that would be a very, very sexist statement.
I've been present at gatherings where that has happened (generally between... large... women and so-inebriated-as-to-be-nearly-passed-out soldiers) and everyone present laughed it off every time... except for the soldier, when he's told in the morning that he cheated on his wife, and could possibly have impregnated a woman he doesn't remember meeting.

Women may not have the same parts as men, but they are possessed of slightly similar biological drives. What you think of as all women is actually only most working class and up women in western, first-world nations... which, by the way, is fewer than 20% of all women worldwide.