A View From the Road: Screw Warcraft IV

[Brett Alex]

Because the Warcraft series ended the moment Blizzard chose to ignore nearly every major plot point and lore from earlier games for the purpose of adapting the franchise to a MMO gameplay, and in addition making it wholesome family entertainment, filled with comic relief and pop culture references at every turn, as opposed to the dark, brutal, Warhammer-inspired game world of Warcraft 2 and its subsequent expansion.

Did you ever play the previous games?

Did you notice they included rastafarian trolls?
Or anthropomorphic fighting pandas?
What about the mortar teams yelling "MOOOOOOORTAAAAAR COMMMMMBATT" as they were built, then arguing about how to blow up the enemy every time you talked to them?
What about the high pitched squealy goblin sappers?
The Dwarf hero who would quote Sean Connery?
The two peasants named Robert and Tyler brawling in village square in one mission? (Fight Club anyone?)

Hell, even as far back as the first Warcraft you had sheep that exploded if you clicked on them too many times, not to forget al the joke unit dialogue.

The franchise has always had an element of comedy, and element of darkness. WoW is no different.

 

[101194]

I'm glad you mentioned us people who loved the orignial warcraft series but HATED the fact that WoW Basicly continued the story on an MMO which some Of us RTSers Hate. But what the hell, Time to hit wow wiki.

 

[Byers]

Because the Warcraft series ended the moment Blizzard chose to ignore nearly every major plot point and lore from earlier games for the purpose of adapting the franchise to a MMO gameplay, and in addition making it wholesome family entertainment, filled with comic relief and pop culture references at every turn, as opposed to the dark, brutal, Warhammer-inspired game world of Warcraft 2 and its subsequent expansion.

It has heavily degenerated into something that parents use to babysit their kids, and 13 year old asian girls to giggle over as they dress up their night elf druids in matching seasonal clothing.

It has, in short, become an abomination.

I vehemently disagree with pretty much every point you've made here.

"Stop poking me!" "Me not that kind of orc!" "*Fart* He did it! No, he did it!"

WC always had comic relief, and if you don't think there's more than a few dark moments in WoW, you clearly haven't been playing the game very long. I'd wager good money that the majority of the WoW playerbase is 18+, hardly the preteen playerbase you describe.

Those tiny comedic lines found in Warcraft 2 were easter eggs it took roughly 5 billion rabid button pushes to reveal, not integral quest chains woven into the final zone of the game concerning the Lich King's agent, the mullet-clad "Dr Terrible" that you have to defeat in a mini game of whack-a-mole.

Clearly you see the difference here.

The dark moments in WoW were akin to Simba mourning his father's passing in the Lion King.
The dark moments in Warcraft 2 was basically all of it. And manly, brutal events, like the warchief Gul'Dan opening a portal to hell and being torn to pieces by the demons he looked to control. Or Orgrim Doomhammer seizing the throne by decapitating his predecessor and banishing his children.

 

[Byers]

Because the Warcraft series ended the moment Blizzard chose to ignore nearly every major plot point and lore from earlier games for the purpose of adapting the franchise to a MMO gameplay, and in addition making it wholesome family entertainment, filled with comic relief and pop culture references at every turn, as opposed to the dark, brutal, Warhammer-inspired game world of Warcraft 2 and its subsequent expansion.

Did you ever play the previous games?

Did you notice they included rastafarian trolls?
Or anthropomorphic fighting pandas?
What about the mortar teams yelling "MOOOOOOORTAAAAAR COMMMMMBATT" as they were built, then arguing about how to blow up the enemy every time you talked to them?
What about the high pitched squealy goblin sappers?
The Dwarf hero who would quote Sean Connery?
The two peasants named Robert and Tyler brawling in village square in one mission? (Fight Club anyone?)

Hell, even as far back as the first Warcraft you had sheep that exploded if you clicked on them too many times, not to forget al the joke unit dialogue.

The franchise has always had an element of comedy, and element of darkness. WoW is no different.

Pretty much all of that is from Warcraft 3, which was a steep step down from WC2 in regards to story and lore, true. Just not an all out embarrassment like WoW.

 

[Warrior Irme]

While I do see a semblance of a story in WoW, I do not believe that it is fully adequate to continue on from WC3. I have no problem with WC4 continuing on from where WoW will eventually leave off, however I do want WC4 to at least contain some form of campaign that will allow players to run through the WoW storyline. I played wow up to level 72 and just didn't enjoy the mmo anymore. Does that Mean that when the new RTS version of Warcraft comes out that I should just miss out on what content was released after my dropping of the game?

 

[Nuke_em_05]

Those tiny comedic lines found in Warcraft 2 were easter eggs it took roughly 5 billion rabid button pushes to reveal, not integral quest chains woven into the final zone of the game concerning the Lich King's agent, the mullet-clad "Dr Terrible" that you have to defeat in a mini game of whack-a-mole.

Clearly you see the difference here.

The dark moments in WoW were akin to Simba mourning his father's passing in the Lion King.
The dark moments in Warcraft 2 was basically all of it. And manly, brutal events, like the warchief Gul'Dan opening a portal to hell and being torn to pieces by the demons he looked to control. Or Orgrim Doomhammer seizing the throne by decapitating his predecessor and banishing his children.

People have cited enough of the comedy even from WCIII, yes, it wasn't promeninent, but still there, A LOT.

In WoW, from square one, in every starting area, quests involve getting the head of the main bad guy for the zone. Or their ear. Actually, one of the low-level dwarf quests is gathering a lot of kobold ears. How about playing as Arthas with the mission objective of kill 100 of your own men and turn them undead? Duskwood where you hear the tale of Jitters and how he left an artifact at a family farm and ran as the Dark Raiders killed the family, women and children? Lots of "avenge my family" quests. Tirion, where you help him redeem his son from the Scarlet Crusade, only to watch him die? Or ghost girl in Darrowshire(?), where you talk to ghost aunt and bring still living uncle to tears?

Or maybe I just read the quests too much... I don't know.

 

[APPCRASH]

It just irks me that I can't enjoy good Warcraft lore in my beloved RTS fashion. I spend a decade burning that midnight oil, micro managing my way through the games on the hardest difficulty, unbeknown to me that the next five years of story line, that I sweated out and grew bald because of, will vanish off into the land of the MMO. It's like if George Lucas decided to make the final Star Wars movie a five minute internet flash video. It may be the story line, just the presentation of it is rubbish. You can't just say to me that there is too much content in WoW for an RTS. True it might take a decade to get all that story into that format, but I'll keep buying Warcraft RTS games regardless of how old it gets.

 

[Byers]

Those tiny comedic lines found in Warcraft 2 were easter eggs it took roughly 5 billion rabid button pushes to reveal, not integral quest chains woven into the final zone of the game concerning the Lich King's agent, the mullet-clad "Dr Terrible" that you have to defeat in a mini game of whack-a-mole.

Clearly you see the difference here.

The dark moments in WoW were akin to Simba mourning his father's passing in the Lion King.
The dark moments in Warcraft 2 was basically all of it. And manly, brutal events, like the warchief Gul'Dan opening a portal to hell and being torn to pieces by the demons he looked to control. Or Orgrim Doomhammer seizing the throne by decapitating his predecessor and banishing his children.

People have cited enough of the comedy even from WCIII, yes, it wasn't promeninent, but still there, A LOT.

In WoW, from square one, in every starting area, quests involve getting the head of the main bad guy for the zone. Or their ear. Actually, one of the low-level dwarf quests is gathering a lot of kobold ears. How about playing as Arthas with the mission objective of kill 100 of your own men and turn them undead? Duskwood where you hear the tale of Jitters and how he left an artifact at a family farm and ran as the Dark Raiders killed the family, women and children? Lots of "avenge my family" quests. Tirion, where you help him redeem his son from the Scarlet Crusade, only to watch him die? Or ghost girl in Darrowshire(?), where you talk to ghost aunt and bring still living uncle to tears?

Or maybe I just read the quests too much... I don't know.

I keep naming Warcraft 2 as the darker, more brutal part of the franchise, and people keep trying to refute my points, using examples from Warcraft 3. Is there some kind of reading comprehension thing going around? Unless you're old enough to have experienced Warcraft 2 in its prime, when the gameplay was as cutting edge as the story was grim, and the cartoony graphics a product of the technology at the time rather than a conscious design choice to lighten the mood, I'm probably not gonna be convinced by your arguments.

Anyway, the quests you mention, gather heads, ears, toenail clippings, et cetera, are pretty standard fare in every MMO. The original WoW had a higher amount of these than the later expansions, as it tried to do things a little more by the numbers rather than radically carving its own path. And for all of these quests you name as dark, there are ones that take you going through boar poo, or tagging lizards with mechanical scorpions.

WoW really does try to do drama when they feel the need. It's just that it falls a bit flat when they don't really have the balls to stand by their convictions and make the game world a thoroughly more mature place, in fear of alienating the part of their player base that enjoys the silliness and amusement park aspects of it. (of which there are many, even if they're over 18).

 

[John Funk]

Those tiny comedic lines found in Warcraft 2 were easter eggs it took roughly 5 billion rabid button pushes to reveal, not integral quest chains woven into the final zone of the game concerning the Lich King's agent, the mullet-clad "Dr Terrible" that you have to defeat in a mini game of whack-a-mole.

Clearly you see the difference here.

The dark moments in WoW were akin to Simba mourning his father's passing in the Lion King.
The dark moments in Warcraft 2 was basically all of it. And manly, brutal events, like the warchief Gul'Dan opening a portal to hell and being torn to pieces by the demons he looked to control. Or Orgrim Doomhammer seizing the throne by decapitating his predecessor and banishing his children.

People have cited enough of the comedy even from WCIII, yes, it wasn't promeninent, but still there, A LOT.

In WoW, from square one, in every starting area, quests involve getting the head of the main bad guy for the zone. Or their ear. Actually, one of the low-level dwarf quests is gathering a lot of kobold ears. How about playing as Arthas with the mission objective of kill 100 of your own men and turn them undead? Duskwood where you hear the tale of Jitters and how he left an artifact at a family farm and ran as the Dark Raiders killed the family, women and children? Lots of "avenge my family" quests. Tirion, where you help him redeem his son from the Scarlet Crusade, only to watch him die? Or ghost girl in Darrowshire(?), where you talk to ghost aunt and bring still living uncle to tears?

Or maybe I just read the quests too much... I don't know.

I keep naming Warcraft 2 as the darker, more brutal part of the franchise, and people keep trying to refute my points, using examples from Warcraft 3. Is there some kind of reading comprehension thing going around? Unless you're old enough to have experienced Warcraft 2 in its prime, when the gameplay was as cutting edge as the story was grim, and the cartoony graphics a product of the technology at the time rather than a conscious design choice to lighten the mood, I'm probably not gonna be convinced by your arguments.

Anyway, the quests you mention, gather heads, ears, toenail clippings, et cetera, are pretty standard fare in every MMO. The original WoW had a higher amount of these than the later expansions, as it tried to do things a little more by the numbers rather than radically carving its own path. And for all of these quests you name as dark, there are ones that take you going through boar poo, or tagging lizards with mechanical scorpions.

WoW really does try to do drama when they feel the need. It's just that it falls a bit flat when they don't really have the balls to stand by their convictions and make the game world a thoroughly more mature place, in fear of alienating the part of their player base that enjoys the silliness and amusement park aspects of it. (of which there are many, even if they're over 18).

Played and loved WC2, thank you very much. Just as I played and loved WC3. And I'd much rather have a game world that tried to go its own root rather than just ape the GRRR GRIMDARK world of Warhammer. I'm fine with moments of levity in my games, and I don't think having a quest where you sift through Talbuk poo makes, say, the Darrowshire quests any less sad, or that the Mimiron fight has a pop culture reference to Voltron undermines the fact that you're dealing with both a physical embodiment of insanity that's influenced many of the pivotal moments in Azeroth's history AND an envoy of the gods that is on the verge of making the call to eradicate Azeroth once and for all.

There's plenty of dark stuff in WoW, and even the fun-poking rarely gets in the way. Look at the Shade of Aran fight in Kara - he's a spirit that has been driven insane from years and years of post-mortem torment at the hands of his son, he freaks out if anyone in the raid has Atiesh, and yet he still manages to drink to restore mana in the middle of the fight, joking about mages complaining about the same thing.

 

[theSovietConnection]

*SNIP*

While a touch on the extreme side for examples, I think that's pretty much it.

Though for the idea of a Star Wars becoming an internet flash video, you get a cookie.

 

[oliveira8]

Well...theres also that part where the story started as a RTS, so...I guess lots of people would like to play the rest of the story as a...RTS!
Tolkien didn't do the ending of Lord of the Rings in a poem didn't he? He kept the narrative equal in all parts.

And of course theres the people that don't like MMO's, the peoplethat can't play much time on a MMO and the part that it's hard to organize raids/dungeons groups to ceartain parts of the story etc etc.

A MMO is a very crap medium to get a full blown story. Unless you experience it for the first time when it was new, there's a big chance that you will never see it.

How many people that joined TBC/WotLK got to see the end of the full questline involving Blackrock Mountain? Not that many.(Theres plenty of raids in wich you can solo but there is plenty of bosses in the old raids that require alot of people or certain classes.)

And theres always the OOC idiots T-bagging XXXX character.

Hell in vanilla WoW you only got reconnected with the main storyline of the RTS in the latter levels and Naxxramas. The rest just felt like a recap. TBC was quite...off in everything. Only in WoTLK you got a full immersion of the game story line.

Playing WoW to see the end of a story that you started to "watch" in the old RTS Warcraft games is just a big "NO".

The fact that you have to raise a character from 1-80, equip it with the best gear, enter a half decent raiding guild, pay 30? every 2 month it's not a good payoff as a RTS game that costs 50? and you can just cheat your way to see the end. The MMO you have to be on constant playing, than in the RTS medium were you can just pop up the game and revisit the story, without having much trouble.

World of Warcraft is not Warcraft 4. Just because you mention that possibility you deserve to get slapped all the way to the moon Funk....TO THE MOON!

Edit: Also would like to mention that a big section of the article was a comment on how good the story writing is, not how good the storyline works in a MMO.

 

[Fenixius]

The problem in this thread lies... somewhere around this post -here-.

But you were never the main character in WC1-3, either. You were the commander, but the story revolved around Arthas/Jaina/Thrall/Sylvanas/Furion/Illidan, as it still does. We're now the foot soldiers fighting alongside the heroes.

No, you were NOT the commander. That was just an abstraction so the game could be presented with those champions as units on the field. In terms of Lore, it was Arthas/Lothar/whoever who commanded the troops, not you. Because if you were -literally- Arthas, you'd... have to be Arthas. It'd be more Dynasty Warriors than Command and Conquer. They would have made the Xbox/Xbox 360 Kingdom Under Fire games about 10 years too early. Which isn't the game Blizzard wanted to make.

But this is a thread about World of Warcraft being Warcraft IV in disguise, and I do have plenty to say about that. And the issue I have with World of Warcraft is twofold.

Firstly, if you're playing it for the story, there's a hell of a lot of filler. Lots of unrelated padding. Grinding your way up to 60, or 80, or whatever; most of it's not going to be your story gameplay. As Phokal mentioned before - those "big story moments" are very rare. I played a Blood Elf Paladin to 65, so I put more time into World of Warcraft than a weekend, so don't start coming at me from there. And, don't get me wrong. I did experience lots of stuff. Everything in the game has to be related in -some- way, and they've expanded their details immensely. But if World of Warcraft is really Warcraft IV, then it should be full of stories about the main characters, detailing the resolution of those plotlines. And while those are there, they are NOT what most players will get to experience. If there -were- lots of those "big story moments", meaningful quest chains, etc, in World of Warcraft, prior to level 60, and I missed them...

...then what the fuck is wrong with the design THAT I CAN MISS THE STORY AND YET STILL COMPLETE THAT PART OF THE GAME?!

Ahem. Secondly, my other issue that I had was that so much of the high-high end stuff, the long-abandoned former level 60 endgame, the derelict and obsolete level 70 endgame content, and the lofty, teetering heights of the level 80 content is where all this epic story stuff is. Sunwell. Level 70 raid. It's where Kael'thas tries to summon Kil'jaeden. Kael was one of my favourite characters from Warcraft III - he was a noble character, trying to save his people.

...I blinked, he formed a pact with the Legion, and oh, I can't actually go and experience this content anyway, since noone's going to group up with me to do it, because they're all at the endgame of Wrath of the Lich King.

The reason for these issues is that while the MMORPG -can- be used to tell a story... it's not used very well. And I believe the reason for -that- is because most people don't play the MMO for the story. They want to have fun, and do some quest, and kill some stuff! Find some more loot! Not root around in some stupid fantasy kingdom.

That's for nerds.

I object because I -am- a nerd, and they're ruining my fun.

--Fen


Note: John Funk's article here -must- be read simultaneously with Alexander Macris' article, Why Do They Need Sequels [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/publishers-note/6617-Publisher-s-Note-If-They-Are-Persistent-Why-Do-They-Need-Sequels], featured here at The Escapist on 12th October 2009.

 

[John Funk]

Pass and disagree. There isn't any progression just reskined NPC with repeat of same boring quest.

Warcraft and it's stories are just a cheap knock off of Warhammer. Yeah I'm that guy. troll blah blah blah.

Except... you're wrong.

And personally, I prefer Warcraft to Warhammer in pretty much every aspect. go figure

 

[scarab7]

I agree with Fenixius on a lot of his parts. I hate how WoW need to fabricate some more background that people didn't get to see to make up some of their game content. Really? Kael is a grey elf prune at the end of his fight (spoiler!)? So I can take playing in the after math of WC3, to be honest, I love the WC storylines and there is nothing wrong with continuing that story from an MMO, what I hate is playing the aftermath aftermath of the WC "void" that happened between WC3 and WoW.
I guess I'm one of the few people who level from 1-70, on 3 characters, before using things like wowhead or a quest helper add on, I read the quests and enjoyed them some what if not alot. But I hate it when I approach this large castle brimming with crazy creatures and need to gear up with 24 other people, and then realize I have no idea what the hell the damn building is. I'm not going to wait, nor will my teammates, and find quests that explain everything. So I feel like I'm missing a page of the story.

Then Wraith came out, (spoiler) at the end of WC3 Icecrown was a war torn battle field covered in elf, naga, various undead bodies, a bleeding Illidan (who I thought died), and in the center was a big icy spiral stair case to where a throne sat. Even in the menu of WC3: Frozen Throne they show a distant picture of it, and it's a crappy ice tower. Sudden in the expansion Ice Crown became this massive fortress that looks like it's made from shiny Terminator parts and all his undead warriors look like they got platform shoes.
I could argue about more complicated aspects of WoW storyline (? Wargs? Catacylsm? O My!" but I think I've confused enough people.

 

[SovietSecrets]

An MMO isn't a bad way to continue a story, its just a dumb way. Why would I want to pay $50 three times for game plus expansions and then on top of that a monthly fee, it just seems stupid to go on like that. Rather pay one time and continue a great storyline then all of that cost.

 

[hansari]

There is one argument that still manages to resonate with me, and that's because it's more a matter of personal preference than anything else: "What if I don't like MMOGs?" That's a perfectly valid point, and I can see how the change in genre might be a point of contention. If you love Real-Time Strategy games, but would rather not touch a Massively Multiplayer Online game with a twenty-foot pole, then some feelings of bitterness would be rather understandable.

But that does come down to a simple matter of opinion, and just because someone doesn't like MMOGs doesn't mean that they're not capable of continuing and finishing storyline threads from previous games, or even starting their own plotlines that might well be finished in another game down the road. You can tell a story in an FPS, in an RPG, in an RTS, in a fighting game - it's completely asinine to claim that you can't tell a story in a game like WoW, and Blizzard has chosen to do exactly that..

So what of Warcraft fans 1.0 like me?

Despite my devotion to the series, I was unable to make the move to the MMO for the simple fact that the genre didn't appeal to me.

So now what is the reprieve for fans like me? That, as you suggested, there may one day be a Warcraft 4 where everything that occurred in WoW is summed up in a five minute intro?

That sounds quite unfair...and thats the problem that fans like me have. We feel that we are being punished in a way for not making the leap to the MMO...

 

[Silva]

Ah, the MMO writer is here to tell us that an RTS series can't go through the next story because an MMO did it. Forgive me, Mr Funk, but I'm sceptical.

At the very least, if there is a Warcraft IV, it will have some way of looking back over WoW lore in the opening introduction, or explain it on the way. If not those things, then it will have a huge manual. If not that, then it's probably going to play through those stories anyway. Or the final, most predictable option - Blizzard will simply require that either people buy WoW or buy a DVD/device explaining the lore for as much cash as possible.

I, personally, would enjoy the actual game in any of these ways - as long as it's an RTS.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Pass and disagree. There isn't any progression just reskined NPC with repeat of same boring quest.

Warcraft and it's stories are just a cheap knock off of Warhammer. Yeah I'm that guy. troll blah blah blah.

Except... you're wrong.

And personally, I prefer Warcraft to Warhammer in pretty much every aspect. go figure

What with Warcraft having a better story, less stupid of the stupidass "XTREME GRIMDAKRE!!" that Warhammer fans love, better art design and an over all more appealing universe I can't see why...

Personally I dislike how story is presented in MMO's, I prefer cutscenes and characters, I also hate having to play with "online people" to get that story. Some of us came to the internet rather late, who played Warcrafts 1-3, and whom don't like being forced to party up with LootJackr13, Azzfukr69 and Duchebaag22 to do it.

Still, I definately accept WoW's place in the Warcraft Canon, I just want to see it move back into a game style I'd be interested in playing.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

A View From the Road: Screw Warcraft IV

Why can?t an MMOG be a proper chapter in a continuing story?

Read Full Article

There is one argument that still manages to resonate with me, and that's because it's more a matter of personal preference than anything else: "What if I don't like MMOGs?" That's a perfectly valid point, and I can see how the change in genre might be a point of contention. If you love Real-Time Strategy games, but would rather not touch a Massively Multiplayer Online game with a twenty-foot pole, then some feelings of bitterness would be rather understandable.

My counter-argument to that would be to ask them if they care about the story or the game. Take the Legacy of Kain series, for example. Most of the games in that series had very yawn-worthy gameplay, but the story was so great that who cares? You aren't playing those games for the experience, you're playing those games so the plot will continue.

If someone told me that they don't want to play WoW for the story, then I'd tell them that they're obviously not that enveloped by the story if such a minor obstacle is keeping them from experiencing it.