Abortion....why?

[AstylahAthrys]

I don't think there is a right answer to this topic. It's an ambiguously gray area with so many moral and ethical choices involved in it.

I'm pro-choice just because I don't think I should be making the decision for someone else. However, the thought of having an abortion myself is something I'd never do. Not that I will ever have a choice. I'm pretty much infertile, and the only way I'll ever get pregnant is with fertility treatments. The only way I will get pregnant is luck and a very heavy conscious decision. I know guys won't understand this, it's a strange biological instinct women get (and it isn't just me), but when I hear of someone having an abortion, I can't help but think "You are wasting a wonderful opportunity that I will never get to have." That is completely irrational, I know. That person could have been raped, may be completely unable to take care of the child or it could be so disabled it would suffer it would suffer once it was born. Those are legitimate reasons, though technically the first two could be solved with adoption. Kind of. It would be a little unfair to expect a rape victim to live with a physical reminder of an attack for 9 months.

I think abortion should be legal up to a certain time. If the child can live outside the womb, it should not be aborted. I do think that is murdering a child. If the child couldn't, then it's not really a sustainable life form. Also, I really don't want grumpy old men dictating what I can do with my body.

Goodness, this is such a touchy and odd subject, though generally I don't let other people's view of abortions bother me just because I know how much of a mess it can be.

 

[AnarchistFish]

If you consider a fetus a human being then abortion is murder, so it is well worth getting worked up about. Considering fetuses are living, growing beings of the species homo sapiens, it is not farfetched.

And going down that road, any sexually active woman who's had more than one period is a serial killer.

Birth control is murder, too.

It is not farfetched.

Not really, because the baby never existed in the first place. You don't have to do anything not to have a baby.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Ok I'm not sure what technicalities and scriptures there are but my understanding from when I was in the Catholic church was that active homosexuality was forbidden but homosexuals themselves are to be treated no differently than others.

I don't see that as much of a distinction at all. Being a thing is totally fine, but doing that thing is utterly evil?

 

[AnarchistFish]

Ok I'm not sure what technicalities and scriptures there are but my understanding from when I was in the Catholic church was that active homosexuality was forbidden but homosexuals themselves are to be treated no differently than others.

I don't see that as much of a distinction at all. Being a thing is totally fine, but doing that thing is utterly evil?

Well no one chooses to be homosexual, but I guess it's seen that if you are you can still resist the temptation. That's how I understand it.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Ok I'm not sure what technicalities and scriptures there are but my understanding from when I was in the Catholic church was that active homosexuality was forbidden but homosexuals themselves are to be treated no differently than others.

I don't see that as much of a distinction at all. Being a thing is totally fine, but doing that thing is utterly evil?

Well no one chooses to be homosexual, but I guess it's seen that if you are you can still resist the temptation. That's how I understand it.

Yeah, I understand that. But it's still allows them to claim that homosexuality is wrong, which you can't really do without discriminating against homosexuals, and are quite obviously doing in the case of active homosexuals.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

It seems like a lot of Christians tend to be the "pro-lifers," but why is that really? I read the Bible. I really don't remember abortion being a topic for discussion, seeing as how the people who wrote the Bible and were alive when it took place didn't even know what germs were, let alone how sexual reproduction worked, let alone have a word for the concept of intentional aborted pregnancy.

They do say the bible is against abortion, which it says nothing about, so you are correct. Someone once gave me this bible that had all these "actions" in the back and verse that were for/against it, and for abortion, it said something along the lines of "all children are god's children". That doesn't say shit about abortion.

The real argument seems to be where life starts (conception, birth, etc). Personally, I don't think it should be a legal issue or discussed in government at all. It should be the mother's choice, since she is the one that has to live with it (are the father to a lesser extent). If someone gets an abortion, some greedy, lying political and some psycho christian who can't respect other people's beliefs and force theirs down the throats of others will not in any way be affected.

 

[DeathChairOfHell]

Well, there are different scenarios where abortion might be the exit. For example, if the pregnant woman isn't economically ready to support a child, she might do an abortion because she's not ready. Another example is if the woman was raped, which in that case I believe the child would constantly remind the woman of the rape, and that would probably be traumatizing.

 

[AnarchistFish]

Ok I'm not sure what technicalities and scriptures there are but my understanding from when I was in the Catholic church was that active homosexuality was forbidden but homosexuals themselves are to be treated no differently than others.

I don't see that as much of a distinction at all. Being a thing is totally fine, but doing that thing is utterly evil?

Well no one chooses to be homosexual, but I guess it's seen that if you are you can still resist the temptation. That's how I understand it.

Yeah, I understand that. But it's still allows them to claim that homosexuality is wrong, which you can't really do without discriminating against homosexuals, and are quite obviously doing in the case of active homosexuals.

It's not like they forced people into homosexuality though. I don't agree with it but I think it's just that people shouldn't be actively homosexual, regardless of anything else. It's like telling someone with anger issues that it's ok to hit people since it conforms to their urges.
But yeah, I don't really see the problem since it's not like homosexuals are ever going to go into the Christian ideal of heterosexual relationships. It just annoys me when people say things like "Christians hate gays" or "God hates gays".

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Something to do with "traditions" and "belief that the unborn baby is alive" or some other nonsense.

Look, I get what the Pro-Lifers are after, I really do... but I'm Pro-Choice for a couple of reasons, like "What if a woman got pregnant under... unfortunate circumstances?" And also, the world is overpopulated already, why the hell do we need any more?!?!?

...Sorry.

 

[Something Amyss]

Not really, because the baby never existed in the first place. You don't have to do anything not to have a baby.

The same argument could be made for abortion, since you're not having a baby.

 

[AnarchistFish]

Not really, because the baby never existed in the first place. You don't have to do anything not to have a baby.

The same argument could be made for abortion, since you're not having a baby.

Baby, fetus, same thing. It exists as a living creature, that's all that counts to me.

 

[bauke67]

Something about it being murder, I guess. Other than that, I think it's just plain selfish if you're not willing to sacrifice those nine months for an entire life. You can just have it adopted afterwards anyway, if you want to.

 

[Dastardly]

snip

NOTE: I am not against the practice of abortion in any circumstance. Even if it's for ridiculous or selfish reasons, that just makes me glad this person is not responsible for another human life.

That said, abortion is the intentional, premature ending of a human life. There is no reason other than justification to consider a "fetus" anything but homo sapiens. It's human. It doesn't sometimes grow into a puppy, sometimes into an iguana.

So people need to stop trying to have it both ways. Call it what it is -- you're killing a person. But stand by your decision. It is "wrong," but it is an understandable wrong in many situations. And I'm not just talking "rape or incest" here.

If a couple, or just a mother, is saddled with an unwanted child, there's going to be a possible lifetime of hardship and resentment. That will impact the child immensely. Adoption isn't as quick and easy as anti-abortion folks try to make it sound, so that's not the best answer. So we have to ask how many people have to suffer for this mistake? Just the parent(s), with guilt? Or the parents and the child? I may not believe it's "right," but I can certainly understand the decision.

It's like stealing to feed your starving kids. Is it wrong? Absolutely. It's not yours, it might have fed the victim's now-starving kids, and so on. Would I do it? In a heartbeat. I don't love your family as much as I love mine.

So, I'd uphold the right to decide to abort a pregnancy. But I don't feel the need to force a pseudo-scientific justification as to why it's not what it is. Stand by your principles, says I.

 

[Something Amyss]

Not really, because the baby never existed in the first place. You don't have to do anything not to have a baby.

The same argument could be made for abortion, since you're not having a baby.

Baby, fetus, same thing. It exists as a living creature, that's all that counts to me.

And yet you exclude fertilised eggs, which are developing.

Eh. If you want to go for arguments of convenience, I guess I can't stop you.

 

[AnarchistFish]

Not really, because the baby never existed in the first place. You don't have to do anything not to have a baby.

The same argument could be made for abortion, since you're not having a baby.

Baby, fetus, same thing. It exists as a living creature, that's all that counts to me.

And yet you exclude fertilised eggs, which are developing.

Eh. If you want to go for arguments of convenience, I guess I can't stop you.

How am I excluding that?

 

[gazumped]

Birth control is murder, too.

Which is why you're not allowed to use birth control if you're a Catholic. Which is why Catholics tend to have huuuuge families.

How is "not being killed" more rights than they afford homosexuals? Complete lunatics aside, I've never ever heard a Christian say it shouldn't be illegal to kill gay people.

Just nitpicking here, but outside of the comically insane Westboro Baptist, I don't know any Christians who deny gays the right to live. Just throwing that out there.

Not Christians, perhaps, but in a few Muslim countries like Sudan and Somaliland homosexual activity can get you the death penalty. And abortion is illegal in Sudan (although I think it is legal in Somaliland if the mother would otherwise die, if I have my facts right).

I wonder if these people who want to legislate abortion also eat meat?

I don't see the correlation... explain?

Since humans are omnivorous, meat is a staple in our diets. We are not however, cannibalistic (barring a few remote tribes), so the statement is completely lost on me. Seems like a failed troll...

Humans can live quite easily and healthily without hundreds of animals having to die for them to eat in their lifetime. Some women can't survive without aborting their one foetus.

 

[masticina]

Ah yes the "Where does life begins" problem for believers. I mean some say that the breath of life is the first real breath of air the child takes as it comes out of the womb. Others claim that it is once the egg and the sperm meet. The problem for the second group is that many abortions happen automatically because the female body doesn't accepts it and rinces it out!

So for the second group that would make god the biggest abortion fan! That and ripping babies out of pregnant women... seriously! Christians need to read their own bible!

 

[Caliostro]

Why is this a Christian cause?

Why are you trying to find logic in people who don't function logically? Why would you expect it in people who actively refute it as evil?

When you ask them "why" you're doing something they refuse to do, let alone answer honestly, so you can't expect a real answer out of it.

 

[Syzygy23]

The question I'm really posing was brought to me by moviebob's Breaking Dawn review. Why do so many people care so passionately and want to tell everyone why abortion is baaaaaadddddd? Entire works of art are devoted to it, even going as far back as Nightmare on Elm Street 5. It seems like a lot of Christians tend to be the "pro-lifers," but why is that really? I read the Bible. I really don't remember abortion being a topic for discussion, seeing as how the people who wrote the Bible and were alive when it took place didn't even know what germs were, let alone how sexual reproduction worked, let alone have a word for the concept of intentional aborted pregnancy.

Feel free to troll, flame, or otherwise do forum stuff that could get you banned or the thread deleted. I want to hear from both Christians, sociologists, and smart-alecks alike. Why is this a Christian cause? Who made it that way? And how is it perpetuated?

Life begins at conception, therefore to abort a fetus is to extinguish life, which is to commit an act of murder both by a legal definition and the Christian definition last I checked.

Best case scenario it's 2nd degree manslaughter if the fetus is endangering the mothers life.

Also, you say you read the bible and can't find any instance of a pro-life message, so what do you call Proverbs 31:8-9? "Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves...defend the rights of the weak and helpless." (I've seen other versions where weak and helpless are replaced with poor and needy, not sure which is the original but then again the bible is over 2,000 years old and has been translated numerous times so I try to take it all in with a grain of salt)

Proverbs 31:8-9 works in tandem with "You shall not murder." (Exodus 20:13)

Simple as that really.