If this is just now coming as a surprise, then you haven't been paying attention. Welcome to two years ago Mr. Analyst, thanks for showing up. Still planning on giving it a 30-day trial.
Analyst Calls The Old Republic a "WoW Clone"
- Thread starter Logan Westbrook
- Start date
Whose Doug Creutz and why should I care what he thinks of an MMO that he played/saw in a non-mmo enviroment?
It's nice of him to throw his hat into the ring months and months after everyone else though.
Can it just be accepted by now to these analyst that there are certain elements that will go into most mmos, such as there are certain elements that go into fps games?
It's not those elements that help make or break a game. It's the context of them and Star Wars probably has the most polished/extensive history to ever be made into an mmo.
It's nice of him to throw his hat into the ring months and months after everyone else though.
Can it just be accepted by now to these analyst that there are certain elements that will go into most mmos, such as there are certain elements that go into fps games?
It's not those elements that help make or break a game. It's the context of them and Star Wars probably has the most polished/extensive history to ever be made into an mmo.
World of Warcraft is honestly becomming like Simsons at this point. Anything original the others did, they ripped it off and killed the competition. And is now seen as the original. Theres almost nothing WoW has not done 'cept changing into first person and shooting stuff on left/right click. But thats covered by Activisions CoD'department.
I don't know about everybody else, but the conversations make a HUGE difference for me. I've played World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and the Lord of the Rings Online, and I'm sick and tired of quests amounting to a pop-up text window full of an information dump that somehow loosely rationalizes why you need to kill X amount of creature Y for NPC Z. The Old Republic still has some of these quests, but it's a LOT more engaging when you can insult the quest giver NPC for his stupidity, or even sabotage his request. Other quests don't even involve killing, but are all dialoge and story driven, where everything pivots upon your decisions. The key point here is CHOICE people, it's what TOR is adding to the paradigm, and it's a huge step in the right direction. I've had NPC's applaud my decisions, or derided them and question my judgement, or even try to kill me over my past actions. I've killed off some story characters, and spared others, and you have to live with the consequences. Imagine Mass Effect or Knight of the Old Republic, where you can never just save and reload to get things just right. You have to go with your gut and stick to your guns, and there is no going back short of making a new character and starting over. That may not seem like much of a difference over World of Warcraft, but it's HUGE factor in actually making me CARE about the world and my role in it.
Using his logic that being derivative means "clone" then of course SWTOR is a WoW Clone, just as WoW is an EQ clone, which in turn is a UO clone... Hell using that logic one could call the latest CoD FPS a Doom Clone.
Derivative just means it uses the common elements that every MMO since the time of MUDs has used. It's the details that make or break a game. WoW's details were what made it a success, the polish that blizzard is so proud of is all detail work, when in reality it isn't much different then any of the games that came before it, the major systems haven't changed since UO; chat, loot, fight, level, craft, quest, etc. It's how those systems are used that gives a game it's own feel.
Time will tell if SWTOR's details make it a success.
Derivative just means it uses the common elements that every MMO since the time of MUDs has used. It's the details that make or break a game. WoW's details were what made it a success, the polish that blizzard is so proud of is all detail work, when in reality it isn't much different then any of the games that came before it, the major systems haven't changed since UO; chat, loot, fight, level, craft, quest, etc. It's how those systems are used that gives a game it's own feel.
Time will tell if SWTOR's details make it a success.
I'll take this with a truckload of salt, seeing as any so called "Analyst" is either retarded, paid to state the bleeding obvious, or both. Besides, it's an MMO. How different from WoW did this moron expect it to be?
Oh, here's something. You know that WoW thing? Turns out it's just an Everquest clone. Oh wait, that in turn was just a UO clone. So I guess WoW is the clone of a clone, which makes ToR the clone of a cloned clone. Shocking, I know...
EDIT: Goddamn ninjas. Can we get some pirates in here to take care of them?
Oh, here's something. You know that WoW thing? Turns out it's just an Everquest clone. Oh wait, that in turn was just a UO clone. So I guess WoW is the clone of a clone, which makes ToR the clone of a cloned clone. Shocking, I know...
EDIT: Goddamn ninjas. Can we get some pirates in here to take care of them?
This.Jesus Phish said:
Most critics who claim "____ MMO is just like WoW" are generally the sorts that don't play past the tutorials of any MMO. You know... the point where MMOs haven't got the level of complexity and depth established yet to define it within the genre.
They generally look at superficial details like 'This game has quests just like in WoW!' without realising that the WoW way of handling quests is the best anyone's come up with so far. Which is why they took it from other games that have quests and added the ! so it's not a pain in the ass to find them.
Or 'Look, you hit abilities and they do things! it's just like WoW!' and every other rpg ever....
People who do not have a grounding in the genre should not be doing reviews or analysis in the games of the genre. They simply aren't qualified to offer critique of any importance, in the same manner that someone who doesn't like or play FPSs probably shouldn't be sent to do analysis on the latest Call of Duty.
It amuses me to no end how much this is following in Warhammer Online's footsteps. Heralded as the next big MMO and the one that will finally be able to go head to head with Blizzard and Wow. Sadly, as time goes on more and more people are finding out that all the hype about the game was just that, hype. I will just say what I said in the E3 article about Old Republic, the more I see of it the less enthused I am about it. I hope it will enjoy fighting with the rest of the pack of failed MMOs over Blizzard's scraps.
My first problem with it is that it looks less like something out of the Star Wars universe and more like a futuristic circus. When I think Star Wars I think of the gritty world of the original three movies not the cartoonish bullshit that we got from the prequels. It seems they are taking more from the prequels than the original movies sadly.
Secondly, it DOES look like it's going to end up being nothing more than WoW with a Star Wars skin. Combat looks like your run of the mill MMO combat and the more I see the more this is looking to be case. Not that this would be a bad thing per say but EA and Bioware have been screaming to anyone who will listen how much different and innovative this game is going to be. Sadly, when this turns out to be just another WoW clone EA and Bioware are going to look like massive jackasses.
Thirdly, I just don't think that your typical Bioware gameplay will translate well to an MMO formula. I would wager that it will be there sure, but it will feel forced and out of place.
Finally and most importantly this isn't the same Bioware that brought us KOTOR and Baldur's Gate. This is the Bioware that was eaten up and regurgitated out by EA and decided that recycling the same dungeon throughout the entire game in Dragon Age 2 was a fine thing to do. This is the same Bioware that has chosen to "streamline" gameplay lately to cater to the lowest common denominator rather than hold them to the same standard as the games that came before them. All said I wouldn't trust this Bioware to check my email without EA butting in and screwing things up.
My first problem with it is that it looks less like something out of the Star Wars universe and more like a futuristic circus. When I think Star Wars I think of the gritty world of the original three movies not the cartoonish bullshit that we got from the prequels. It seems they are taking more from the prequels than the original movies sadly.
Secondly, it DOES look like it's going to end up being nothing more than WoW with a Star Wars skin. Combat looks like your run of the mill MMO combat and the more I see the more this is looking to be case. Not that this would be a bad thing per say but EA and Bioware have been screaming to anyone who will listen how much different and innovative this game is going to be. Sadly, when this turns out to be just another WoW clone EA and Bioware are going to look like massive jackasses.
Thirdly, I just don't think that your typical Bioware gameplay will translate well to an MMO formula. I would wager that it will be there sure, but it will feel forced and out of place.
Finally and most importantly this isn't the same Bioware that brought us KOTOR and Baldur's Gate. This is the Bioware that was eaten up and regurgitated out by EA and decided that recycling the same dungeon throughout the entire game in Dragon Age 2 was a fine thing to do. This is the same Bioware that has chosen to "streamline" gameplay lately to cater to the lowest common denominator rather than hold them to the same standard as the games that came before them. All said I wouldn't trust this Bioware to check my email without EA butting in and screwing things up.
Oh geez an MMO has taken a lot of elements from WoW? NO SHIT!?! Next you're going to tell me that the Berlin wall fell down...look, to make an mmo, you have to copy some things from WoW for 2 reasons. 1) the majority of the MMO market has invested into WoW and are probably used to it. You change it too much, it's going to be so foreign that people won't play it. Reason 2) WoW has copied every other MMO to become the king of MMO's. So not only is every MMO like WoW, WoW is like every MMO, it's just the way the world works.
TBH this sounds more like the guys experience on MMO's was purely based on WoW and when they came to something of a same genre that was saying "we're going to revolutionise the field" they were surprised, it played like an MMO...because that's what it is. The equivalent would be me playing Need for Speed and then Burnout and saying "Oh yeah, they're pretty much the same", THEY'RE THE SAME GENRE!!! OF COURSE THEY'LL BE THE SAME!!!
TBH this sounds more like the guys experience on MMO's was purely based on WoW and when they came to something of a same genre that was saying "we're going to revolutionise the field" they were surprised, it played like an MMO...because that's what it is. The equivalent would be me playing Need for Speed and then Burnout and saying "Oh yeah, they're pretty much the same", THEY'RE THE SAME GENRE!!! OF COURSE THEY'LL BE THE SAME!!!
An MMO thats similiar to WOW? Well thats truly a shocking news-worthy story.
At this point we've pretty much accepted that all the major MMOs are going to be shallow Wow clones, or at least steal the stuff that worked for WOW. Well except for Guild Wars 2, which is going to be awesome.
At this point we've pretty much accepted that all the major MMOs are going to be shallow Wow clones, or at least steal the stuff that worked for WOW. Well except for Guild Wars 2, which is going to be awesome.
I think what's at issue here is whether you like playing MMORPGs or not. WoW sets the bar, for all forthcoming games in the genre, and WoW got a lot of things right, from the interface, to quest design. IF YOU LIKE MMORPGs. Which I don't (anymore, after playing WoW for about two years).
So, yeah, if it's got the same addictive qualities of WoW, and is anywhere near as refined, in the Star Wars universe, it's got a shot. If it does bring some compelling new elements, then it has a better shot. But, it's a lot to ask WoW players who have invested years of their lives in one game to switch to another just because you get to be a Jedi or Sith...
So, yeah, if it's got the same addictive qualities of WoW, and is anywhere near as refined, in the Star Wars universe, it's got a shot. If it does bring some compelling new elements, then it has a better shot. But, it's a lot to ask WoW players who have invested years of their lives in one game to switch to another just because you get to be a Jedi or Sith...
Not exactly news. Every successful MMO takes gameplay features from WoW. BECAUSE THEY WORK! The differences in SWTOR lie in the story aspects, the different stories for different classes, and the advance classes replayability factor. That is what will make or break the game.
Plus, it's a good STAR WARS MMO. People have been clamoring for that for a long time, they won't care if they can get the same gameplay from WoW because they want to be Twi'leks or Chiss, not Undead or Elvish.
Plus, it's a good STAR WARS MMO. People have been clamoring for that for a long time, they won't care if they can get the same gameplay from WoW because they want to be Twi'leks or Chiss, not Undead or Elvish.