Analyst Calls The Old Republic a "WoW Clone"

Hoplon

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Mar 31, 2010
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RT-Medic-with-shotgun said:
Not surprised. Having seen what promises were called off
Those would be? because so far BioWare Austin hasn't made any promises as far as I am aware, only told us about features that are in the game.

Don't get me wrong, this could well be a terrible game, a stagnant wow clone with a Ip that been though the mill so many times it isn't even a pale imitation of it's self.

I haven't seen enough evidence one way or another so far.
 

KarmicToast

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As a long time beta player of this game, I can't say details, but I will say this: it's a bit unfair to call it a WoW clone. I hate WoW, I love TOR. Yes, it unfortunately takes many mechanical elements of WoW (especially in combat), however, the story, writing, voice acting and quests are so, so much better. For instance, no main or secondary quests are "Kill 20 walruses and bring me 5 walrus hearts...because...uh...I use them to make a healing stew, so that makes the quest more important to you as a player, right? Right?"
 

Antari

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Nov 4, 2009
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I can see where hes coming from. I've been suspicious of the entire game ever since I saw that lame 80's rail shooter they put into the game. It was such a blatent case of laziness it wasn't even funny. From that point on I wasn't interested in seeing how many more corners they cut everywhere else in the game. Now people are proving me right.
 

honestdiscussioner

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I must say what the gentleman says makes little sense, and this coming from someone who never played WoW. It's so bad I don't think playing WoW is necessary to debunk this (if I point to something as new that does exist in WoW, let me know and I'll edit this post).

First off the article itself describes three new features: the fully voice acting of NPC's, the good\evil conversation system, and the fact you have a NPC party (tell me if I'm wrong, I don't think WoW has that last one either). Now he can complain that the conversation systems feels tacked on, but don't really understand how it being tacked on would differ from it being fully integrated into the game. Do the conversation choices affect the gameplay? If the same thing happens no matter what, then perhaps he has a point, but I don't see that as happening. I remember in one demo you have the option to kill someone or let them live. Whether or not it is reminiscent of stuff Bioware has done in the past is irrelevant to the point of whether it is different from WoW. You know, I haven't heard many people complain about how Mass Effect 3 will have that "same nice\nasty" mechanic Bioware has done a million times before. Not to mention, it's freakin' STAR WARS, everything in that universe is always broken down into light side dark side, if you find a writer that is really nuanced then MAYBE you get the "grey" option a la Jolee Bindo.

Now there are other things beyond what is in that article that I know is different from WoW. For one, you get your own customizable ship. If you are light side or dark side it looks totally different as well. Sure, WoW has griffons, but that isn't the same thing.
There's also space battles. I don't think I need to check my sources on this one . . . fairly certain WoW has no space battles. What I know I DON'T know is whether or not WoW has ridable mounts you can take into battle with you, we know TOR will have landspeaders (or at least space segways) that you can run people over with.

All of these differences are the ones we are aware of MONTHS before release. I don't even think they are in full beta yet. I'm sure there have been things announced that I'm not aware of that have been announced as well. This guy's article seems entirely suspicious. I would hate to think the developers of my beloved Starcraft II would stoop to the level of inciting someone to write something like this, but I wouldn't rule that out. At best it is incredibly sloppy and\or lazy work, something along the lines of noticing a few similarities and then ignoring the differences.
 

Hoplon

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Mar 31, 2010
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RT-Medic-with-shotgun said:
Dom Kebbell said:
RT-Medic-with-shotgun said:
Not surprised. Having seen what promises were called off
Those would be? because so far BioWare Austin hasn't made any promises as far as I am aware, only told us about features that are in the game.

Don't get me wrong, this could well be a terrible game, a stagnant wow clone with a Ip that been though the mill so many times it isn't even a pale imitation of it's self.

I haven't seen enough evidence one way or another so far.
The promises of innovation, the promises of intuitive combat, the promises of a next gen MMMO, the promises of a better morality system. If you can think you can see what they lied about or changed their minds on.
That's a difference of opinion, they have done something in away that is (to them) neat and different from the other versions of it they have seen they will say that. That you don't agree is not a broken promise.
 

DanielDeFig

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Oct 22, 2009
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TOR is playing it safe, which is the second reason why I'm not as excited about it as GW2 (along with the fact that TOR still has monthly fees, unlike GW2). TOR still has static combat, exponential levelling, two-factions system, DPS/Healer/Tank, and quest giving-npcs (Yeah, thats a list of all the stuff GW2 is changing. Will it work? I hope so, and it does seem successful from the demos of the game they've let people play).

TOR does have far more flexible classes than WoW-clones, as a single class can be specialized to fill almost any given role. Unfortunately, those roles are still limited to Healer/Tank/DPS (Which might be better than each class being doomed to a single role, but the improvement is not that great).
I belie they're also getting rid of auto-attack (same with GW2), in favour of quickly recharging basic abilities, and a more colourful/powerful mix of abilities to support those more basic ones (once again, the GW2 and TOR developers seem to realize the same thing: People don't like to sit and watch healthbars, they want to watch cool effects going off on the screen).

But GW2 seems to be pushing the envelope far more by allowing any class to respec their abilities outside of combat to fit any role, and since everyone is forced to have at least one healing ability, and all classes can revive, there was no need for a dedicated healer class (but you can probably equip your character to be healer-centric if you wanted to). If it works (which it reportedly does, both from their own QA dep. and the demos), GW2 might be able to eliminate the presumption that the Healer/Tank/DPS thing is necessary for a working MMO. TOR isn't exactly helping this cause when they present us with: A single class can specialize into almost any given role, those roles are of course limited to Healer/DPS/Tank, and once you have made your choice you can't take it back (And we will still be stuck with people shouting "looking for healer" in towns/cities)
Also, Arenanet have been working hard on making GW2 "a grief-free zone", with shared kills and event participation (no quests, only dynamic events. And all who participate in killing a mob or completing an event get the exact same amount of XP, with no need to form a formal party, though possible if you want to). While TOR seems as ripe an are for griefers as WoW, or any other MMORPG out there.

TOR is, as I said, playing it safe. It roots itself in stuff that works, and then expands from that with some new and possibly innovative stuff. But I don't feel like it's enough, at least not when compared to how Arenanet basically took a giant list of "everything that bugs us about MMORPGs", and then set to work on how to make a working MMORPG while changing/removing all the stuff on the list.


BTW: WOW was a Lineage-clone, with little more than a "Warcraft" skin on it. It just happened to make the very best version of the type of games we now call "WoW-clones". But that doesn't mean there aren't other ways of making MMO's (Look at EVE online. It may not be my cup of tea, but it is definitely a very different type of MMO than WoW).
 

chaosfalling

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Jul 18, 2010
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Can't really make that bold a statement till its at least in the final stages of beta, and from what it seems like so far, BioWare have been constantly chopping and changing TOR along its development cycle, so who knows what the final product will look like.

If it does however end up being a 'shiny WoW clone' then its not all that disastrous, that tried and tested formula with the Star Wars theme should be sure to make it a success nonetheless.
 

The Funslinger

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Sep 12, 2010
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Lacsapix said:
every MMO is like WoW in some ways
Exactly. How different can you get? It's like comparing a new Metroid Prime to CoD just because they're FPSs. The Old Republic graphics are vastly improved, and they've put a decent bioware and star wars spin on it. It's probably the first MMO that I've seen in ages that looks interesting. Really, I'd just say this chap is talking out of his arse, trying to sound intelligent by using an uninformed go-to argument on something big.
 

koroem

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Jul 12, 2010
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Yes because all 3rd person shooters are Gears of War.

Yes because all first person shooters are Call of Duty or Halo.

Yes because all 3rd person hack and slash are God of War.

So too, must all MMO's be World of Warcraft.
 

Sylveria

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Nov 15, 2009
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I've seen some streams of people playing the beta, it is, unabashedly, WoW with lightsabers instead of metal swords.

People can make the argument that it's an MMO so of course it feels like WoW but that is not true. Most, if not all, have unique aspects to them which, for better or worse, separate them from the McDonalds of the MMO industry. TOR did exactly what is claimed, they took WoW and put Star Wars textures on it and it doesn't even look that impressive from a visual sense; it already looks dated and it isn't even out yet.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the demos and unauthorized beta streams are giving me the wrong impression. Maybe this will be game that makes Blizzard sweat, but of what we've seen thus far, those of use not totally blinded by hype anyway, is not impressive.
 

ADeskofRichMahogany

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Jan 4, 2010
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You know, I don't necessarily TOR being a WoW clone is a problem here. I mean, if LucasArts wants to compete with WoW, then they need to field a game that will attract users from WoW. And since users of WoW like that brand of mechanics and gameplay, it makes sense that LucasArts has to field a game that feels like WoW. Only with lightsabers.
 

Croaker42

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Feb 5, 2009
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Well the important thing is that it is WoW for Starwars fans.
Clone or not I just don't care. I will play this game.
 

Lorechaser

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Aug 28, 2004
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There are tweaks to the WoW formula in combat. No auto attack. Better (imho) resource management. Cover. Better animation.

Conversation is not even remotely bolted on. Specifics are verboten, but there are any number of Bioware quests in there. And having a storyline for your class changes things tremendously.
 

fundayz

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Feb 22, 2010
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Mad1Cow said:
Oh geez an MMO has taken a lot of elements from WoW? NO SHIT!?! Next you're going to tell me that the Berlin wall fell down...look, to make an mmo, you have to copy some things from WoW for 2 reasons. 1) the majority of the MMO market has invested into WoW and are probably used to it. You change it too much, it's going to be so foreign that people won't play it. Reason 2) WoW has copied every other MMO to become the king of MMO's. So not only is every MMO like WoW, WoW is like every MMO, it's just the way the world works.
SWTOR isn't just taking a lot of elements from WoW, they are taking ALL the elements of WoW and then sticking on their dialogue system.

Yes, WoW basically copied every other MMO at the time but this was back in the early 2000's when polish and accessibility WERE innovations. You can't expect to do the same 6 years later and expect to be a blockbuster.

It looks like BioWare just went "We have great story, let's tack it on already existing systems" when they should've said "We have great story, let's build a game around that using what other companies have learned over the years".