PROOFREADINGParagon Fury said:Naurto
It occurs to me that we really only have problems with misrepresentations of other people's cultural artifacts, not our own. We don't mind if vampires drink blood or drain life force or just eat like normal people, are immortal or not, age or don't, turn to ash in sunlight, have to be staked through the heart or shot with a silver bullet, turn into demons, have super-strength, or shoot lasers out of their hands, but if ninjas aren't dressed in black and silently assassinate people...well that's just wrong.FalloutJack said:Nothing about Naruto makes any sense, especially since it doesn't have any ninjas in it. (Rather, it contains shouty people with super powers.)Paragon Fury said:SNIP
Some things are just poorly-made.
That was my least favorite part of all of Bleach.madwarper said:Have you been keeping up with the manga? This is kind of explained in 526.Korenith said:My biggest gripe with Bleach was that Ichigo defeats Zaraki with just a shikai and then later Zaraki beats an Espada without an major power increase in between. And I know there was some sort of Aizen manipulating Ichigo from the shadows attempt at an explanation but it really didn't work to my mind. I know this kind of thing is common in that kind of anime but that was really really badly done.
Ever since his first fight with Kenpachi Unohana, Zaraki has been unconsciously restrained his power, so he could enjoy fighting longer. It was only after he killed her in battle that he would be able to remove the restraint and learn the name of his zanpakto.
I guess you would say it's gotten better...probably. My least favorite part of Bleach is several things that happened during the current arc, although it seems to be improving...or maybe getting even worse? It's all a mystery.Capitano Segnaposto said:Has Bleach gotten better? I stopped reading in the middle of the Fullbringer arc for being really freakin' boring. After the already boring year long fight with Aizen and then the hundred or so chapters of mostly boring fights prior to that.
I'm a zillion chapters behind in Naruto and am unlikely to catch up, but didn't Kabuto explain the Edo Tensei has basically no restrictions at all?Sniper Team 4 said:I gave up on trying to figure out the tech thing in Naruto looooong ago. Like, back when Naruto was still a 'kid' and not...what is he now, 15? So a teenager. My brother and I just point it out, make a quick joke, and go back to watching it.
No, the things that get me in Naruto are all these jutsus that have special restrictions on them, or rules that can't be broken, or all sorts of stuff like that. And then, further down the line, those rules suddenly don't exist. The Edo tensin (reanimation) jutsu rules have been thrown out the window so many times now with the war going on. Still, I enjoy the series.
This. Every media has internal logical inconsistency. Particularly anything long-running. Star Trek is particularly guilty of this, having multiple layers of logical inconsistency.IllumInaTIma said:Why would you limit it just to animes? It's not like all other forms of media don't have internal logic inconsistencies.
And this. Shonen anime tends to be pretty awful in my experience. Come over to the Shoujo side of the Force. We have magical girls.triggrhappy94 said:I guess you could explain the Naruto thing. Never watched Sekirei though.
My anime advice: Fuck shonen, watch Squid Girl. So much better.
Most shonen sucks.
An interesting take on things, Cake Doctor, but you imposed a generality on me. I don't believe that ninjas are often assassins in black. There may have been some, but those are what drive the kinds of tropes that inevitably lead to Dr. McNinja, so you know it can't be the norm.Dr. Cakey said:SNIP
Yea thats pretty accurate The Kunai was a favourite weapon of the ninja because it was their equivalent of a trowel a very common farming tool. If they got caught with it they could just pretend they were on their way to work.FalloutJack said:An interesting take on things, Cake Doctor, but you imposed a generality on me. I don't believe that ninjas are often assassins in black. There may have been some, but those are what drive the kinds of tropes that inevitably lead to Dr. McNinja, so you know it can't be the norm.Dr. Cakey said:SNIP
Many of the historical ninja were peasants, oftentimes such people who can't afford a sword and thus improvise with what they've got. The notion of the silent killer comes from the idea that...in war time if nowhere else...peasants did not care HOW they dispatched a samurai, who is built for a stand-up fight. Peasants are not warriors. They just want the enemy dead. What lead to the black-clad figures was likely misinformation and tall tales to give others a degree of concern and to look for the wrong thing.
The idea that the farmer, the butcher, the common worker...would do things in a shouty manner is preposterous, because he (or she) would DIE. A little truth-in-tale from Rurouni Kenshin is that most commoners weren't even allowed to own a sword even if they could buy one. It was a higher-class thing. No sword means no easy way to deflect those keen-cutting blades, so a stand-up fight is out of the question most of the time. Killing silently isn't just better. It's required as a survival trait!
Naruto doesn't follow this. If anything, it's suppose to take after Japanese legends and the romantic notion of the ninja itself, not the historical ones. The thing about that, though, is that it doesn't fit the romanticism either. I can't really think of any sort of ninja - fictional or non-fictional - that acts like any of these people. Bruce Lee is quieter, and he outright beats the crap out of everyone! (Though, he had several cases of sneaking around and using disguises effectively in movies.)
I didn't make the comment idly. I meant it. And if someone from Japan who knows history better than I do (probably alot) would like to step forward, I'll gladly discuss it, but in the meantime I have to stick with my guns on this one.
Actually, the manga just explained why that happened.Korenith said:My biggest gripe with Bleach was that Ichigo defeats Zaraki with just a shikai and then later Zaraki beats an Espada without an major power increase in between. And I know there was some sort of Aizen manipulating Ichigo from the shadows attempt at an explanation but it really didn't work to my mind. I know this kind of thing is common in that kind of anime but that was really really badly done.
From what I remember, the only rules that it has is you need to make living sacrifices to bring back people. Other then that, it's just a level of mastery that determines who you can bring back, how much of them you can bring back and how much control you have over them.Dr. Cakey said:I'm a zillion chapters behind in Naruto and am unlikely to catch up, but didn't Kabuto explain the Edo Tensei has basically no restrictions at all?
FalloutJack said:Nothing about Naruto makes any sense, especially since it doesn't have any ninjas in it. (Rather, it contains shouty people with super powers.)Paragon Fury said:SNIP
Some things are just poorly-made.
NameIsRobertPaulson said:The only one is isn't really ninja like in Naruto is... well the title character.Auron225 said:Yeah in Naruto when it showed the 5 Lords using video conferencing I was like, what? Ya'll serious? Technology is a very very confusing thing in Naruto. Surely if they had that, then they would have phones at least.
Not to mention the fact that they call themselves ninjas yet they appear to be as stealthy as DBZ characters.
The power levels in Bleach are just pure messed up - they've always been messed up. Do Soul Society not find it ridiculous that their ordinary foot soldiers are absolute shit, meaning all the real combat of real threats must be done by vice-captains and captains? To very same people who probably shouldn't have to be the ones doing literally all of the fighting. They didn't even bother brining the ordinary shinigami to the battle with Aizen and his Arrancar - they knew fine rightly there was no point. What the f*ck did they do the whole time?
Don't get me wrong, Naruto went entirely off a cliff around the Pain Arc. Kishimoto had convinced me he has zero writing talent left, if he ever had any at all.
As far as Bleach goes, the footsoldiers deal with local criminals. They also have squad duties (Squad 4 are medics, Squad 2 are assassins, Squad 12 is R&D) Why you need 13 battalions to do that is beyond me, but at least they're not entirely useless.
I'm guessing you're referring to the 4th ninja war with that Attrition comment,in which case when did they say it was a war of attrition? The best I can recall shino while fighting zetsu clones said it might become an war of attrition simply because of how many/durable they were and how they were ending up in a stalemate,the commanders never went out of their way to make it an attrition war.Paragon Fury said:Naurto: Ok, there is plenty that could be done here - not least of which is "Ninja engaging in mass attrition warfare against an enemy that outnumbers them by a freaking lot". But one thing that always struck as particularly ridiculous is long-range communication in the Naruto world. They use messenger pigeons and some weird telepathy power later on.
Ok.......except that this is a world where television, telephones AND PORTABLE EARPIECE RADIOS EXIST. AND ARE COMMONLY AVAILABLE. Don't believe me? It what they use the coordinate the Chunin exam in the first seasons of Naruto and during Squad Seven's first mission. And most of the houses and stores have at least a small TV and phone in them.
But carrier pigeons and telepathy, right? Its not like those radios have any tactical military applications at all or anything........
I agree with the bolded part 1000%Dr. Cakey said:It occurs to me that we really only have problems with misrepresentations of other people's cultural artifacts, not our own. We don't mind if vampires drink blood or drain life force or just eat like normal people, are immortal or not, age or don't, turn to ash in sunlight, have to be staked through the heart or shot with a silver bullet, turn into demons, have super-strength, or shoot lasers out of their hands, but if ninjas aren't dressed in black and silently assassinate people...well that's just wrong.
I'm a zillion chapters behind in Naruto and am unlikely to catch up, but didn't Kabuto explain the Edo Tensei has basically no restrictions at all?
Well "soon" could mean anything with these manga but the current story arcs for both Bleach and Naruto are definitely the final arcs. As for One Piece....well apparently it only hit the halfway mark at the time skip so if we were to take that literally then we're looking at another 600 chapters or so.Capitano Segnaposto said:Huh. I need to get back into reading that. Same with Naruto since I hear Naruto is also ending soon? Possibly? Those two and One Piece are always so hard to get into due to the sheer number of chapters to read.madwarper said:Can't really say... They're on what's supposed to be the final arc. So, I reckon if I've been with it this far, I might as well see it to the end.Capitano Segnaposto said:Has Bleach gotten better? I stopped reading in the middle of the Fullbringer arc for being really freakin' boring. After the already boring year long fight with Aizen and then the hundred or so chapters of mostly boring fights prior to that.
Quincys attack the Soul Society and Hueco Mundo, killing off several shinigami/hollows. Ichigo shows up, nearly gets killed, awakens a new power and has to go train it.
maybe, but the point is more about the essence of the archetype or myth in question, vampires are meant to be parasitical in some form and have a weakness for sunlight, among other things, look up Twilight and it's critisisms for referance on that.Dr. Cakey said:It occurs to me that we really only have problems with misrepresentations of other people's cultural artifacts, not our own. We don't mind if vampires drink blood or drain life force or just eat like normal people, are immortal or not, age or don't, turn to ash in sunlight, have to be staked through the heart or shot with a silver bullet, turn into demons, have super-strength, or shoot lasers out of their hands, but if ninjas aren't dressed in black and silently assassinate people...well that's just wrong.
Ah I wasn't aware of that. I don't tend to follow the manga when it's an action based story because I like watching the fights unfold in real time and since the anime has stopped I had no idea they explained it. I retract my objection!madwarper said:Have you been keeping up with the manga? This is kind of explained in 526.Korenith said:My biggest gripe with Bleach was that Ichigo defeats Zaraki with just a shikai and then later Zaraki beats an Espada without an major power increase in between. And I know there was some sort of Aizen manipulating Ichigo from the shadows attempt at an explanation but it really didn't work to my mind. I know this kind of thing is common in that kind of anime but that was really really badly done.
Ever since his first fight with Kenpachi Unohana, Zaraki has been unconsciously restrained his power, so he could enjoy fighting longer. It was only after he killed her in battle that he would be able to remove the restraint and learn the name of his zanpakto.
This is unfortunately true.triggrhappy94 said:Most shonen sucks.
Easy explaination - that whole ending is made up. It is filler. The manga did not have it at all, read the mange if you want to know what actually happened.Paragon Fury said:So I've been watching/re-watching some of my anime lately and its brought up something I find a bit annoying. I enjoy it when an anime does its best to stay true to its own lore/internal logic. But it drives me nuts when writers seem to completely forget about or ignore their own logic and established lore. I mean, is it seriously that hard to stay consistent and true to your own world?
Here are a couple of examples:
Sekirei: At the finale of Season 2, the main character Minato has to make it to the top of MBI's headquarters, the tallest building in Tokyo by 4:00PM that day - if he does MBI's CEO will give the hospital where a friend of his is the plans for a treatment to help his friend. In order to make it harder for him though, MBI's CEO tells everyone who has a Sekirei in the city that if they stop Minato from reaching the top of the tower, they won't be forced to give up their Sekirei and (supposedly) be excused from fighting the rest of the tournament meaning they won't be putting their Sekirei in danger. Sounds bad for Minato, right?
Except that Minato has 6 Sekirei of his own, 4 of which are part of the top 10 strongest Sekirei, one of whom is supposed to be the smartest Sekirei ever, and Minato himself is supposed to be a near-genius level intellect himself. His Sekirei each have a power that would help, including - super strength allowing incredible jumps, the ability to manipulate plant life, flight granted through manipulation of the wind and water manipulation which has been previously shown to allow the user to generate a surface that you can stand on.
What does he opt to do?
Take the #@$^#&# stairs.
Yes, he puts all of his Sekirei in danger, himself and everyone else by taking the stairs and having to fight through traps and the building. Which leaves everyone exhausted when the big bad shows up at the end.
Even worse is there were no rules about how to get up there - it was literally just "Get up here by 4:00PM". He could've rented a freaking helicopter and been fine.
Naurto: Ok, there is plenty that could be done here - not least of which is "Ninja engaging in mass attrition warfare against an enemy that outnumbers them by a freaking lot". But one thing that always struck as particularly ridiculous is long-range communication in the Naruto world. They use messenger pigeons and some weird telepathy power later on.
Ok.......except that this is a world where television, telephones AND PORTABLE EARPIECE RADIOS EXIST. AND ARE COMMONLY AVAILABLE. Don't believe me? It what they use the coordinate the Chunin exam in the first seasons of Naruto and during Squad Seven's first mission. And most of the houses and stores have at least a small TV and phone in them.
But carrier pigeons and telepathy, right? Its not like those radios have any tactical military applications at all or anything........