Anonymous Declares "Infowar" on Wikileaks Opponents

[SilentHunter7]

"Tough Luck?" "Shit happens?" "You finally get what you deserve for messing in other countrys affairs?"

Umm...who's messing in who's affairs? Because as far as I could tell, these afghans are just trying to help us rebuild their country. Now their enemies know exactly who is collaborating with us. Now they and their entire families are going to die.

I dunno, but terrorists don´t need all this information from some dude on the internet. Real terrorists just bomb anything they like,

So why haven't we've seen cars blowing up on random stretches of abandoned road? Terrorists aren't stupid. Well the ones that actually kill themselves are, but the ones that plan out the attacks are smart. 9/11 proved that they know how to hit a target that will cause the maximum amount of physical, monetary, and psychological damage.

and even if they bomb half a country to shit that wouldn´t be a threat to national security...

Actually, I'm pretty sure getting half your country bombed is a pretty large threat to national security.

you know what is? LETTING OTHER PEOPLE INTO YOUR COUNTRY! Serriously, anything short of locking your borders is just and invitation for wrongdoers to do so in your homeland...it is inevitable.

The United States has over 3500 miles of border. Over 3000 miles of coastline. Thousands of seaports. Millions of airports. It'd be impossible to lock all that down. The best you can do is minimize the risk. Like, by not giving out a list of the most sensitive targets to people who might want to bomb them. This information is now available to any idiot who wants to make a statement.

I stand by my argument. What Assange is doing is dangerous, and while some of it may expose corruption, some of isn't exposing anything; just risking people's lives. He should know better. Cut out the useless and risky bits of information, like names of civilian informants, and ambassadors opinions on Chancellor Merkel, and release the important parts, like casualty numbers, war costs, and illegal activities.

 

[Saltyk]

and what about us non-americans. there is 6 billion of us out there, you know^^
we would like to know when the us military is again and again murdering innocents or putting people into concentration camps without trial and tries to cover it up. maybe it's for the best of mankind if sensitive information of that kind is getting out, even if or maybe especially because it poses a danger to some people.

I'm all for military accountability. I'd point out that despite everything, our military does avoid killing civilians whenever possible. If you are referring to the concepts of the "War on Terror" which is basically the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq then you can blame our politicians and top military brass.

But do not blame the American troops for killing civilians. They are only soldiers following orders. I've heard just as many stories of soldiers, in the perfect position to fire on enemy troops, which would save their allies, having to wait for an okay to engage. Innocent people die in war. That is unavoidable. There will never be a way to prevent 100% of unintended death in war.

As for Guantanamo Bay, that is a whole other issue. It should be shut down. The people housed within should either be put on trial or freed. End of story.

of course you are right, the big overall-strategy is plotted by the higher ups. but i was refering to the numerous incidents where single soldiers killed civilians or surrendered combatants out of a whim, for fun, out of sloppienes. and the worst thing: most of them walked or got away with minimal punishment, little more then a raised index finger.

And I honestly can not nor will I defend those actions. Not of the individual soldier(s) who committed those acts nor of the government or military brass that ignored, excused, or covered up those acts. But those are the actions of a few. And such actions are not well received by anyone. But I would not take those events as evidence of the nation as a whole. In fact, such things embarrass and anger me. Such actions undermine everything that we are supposed to stand for as a nation and as human beings. So, you have a right to be upset by such things. If you weren't, I'd say there is something seriously wrong with you. That's less war and more murder.

 

[SilentHunter7]

For all the people wanting Assange gone because "the information he reveals could endanger the lives of many people" its a completely hypocritical argument.

Say there was some massive intelligence leak that revealed a large number of Taliban spies living in America, and the leak causes many of them to be captured and/or killed. Would Assange be called a terrorist? No, he'd be a national hero. But when the roles are reversed its bad because you aren't the beneficiary of what he is doing. The only thing this means is that governments can no longer just abandon their undercover agents when they are found and then they will maybe stop resorting to espionage altogether?

That's actually a pretty good argument, but shoe's also on the other foot for the other guys. If there was a guy leaking locations of Al Qaeda operatives, you can be damn sure they'd want him taken out. Same with us. Except whereas our guys have to deal with things like due process, and the rule of law, they just put a bullet in the guys head.

Oh, and noone will ever stop resorting to espionage. International politics is a game. A game where everyone cheats, and losing means death. Noone's going to play fair with their ass on the line, and noone's going to stop cheating just because someone got caught. They'll just learn to be more sneaky about it next time.

 

[Quiet Stranger]

This just makes me think that anon is more retarded than I give them credit for

 

[Thebiggestpanda]

People don't seem to realise that they are fucking with forces beyond their control. Don't piss in the international relations pot.

 

[ADDLibrarian]

Anon, I'm all for the free speech baby, yeah...but there's free speech and then there's documents that could compromise national security. I dunno, I need to look more into this issue to make an informed decision.

 

[Chrinik]

If the US wouldn´t have fucked the Mudjaheddin over back in the 80ies to fight the "evil russkies", there wouldn´t be a pissed off Osama Bin Laden and his mates even wanting to bomb you. Remember kids, if you don´t give someone a reason to hate you, they probably won´t...
Also, the if the US was concerned with the safty of it´s allies, the people helping you helping them WON´T DIE...

Secondly, we haven´t seen random cars explode because the media doesn´t find it news worthy if it didn´t kill at least a dozen innocent bystanders...as you said, terrorists aren´t dumb, they want to TERRORIZE! Nowadays they can do that with a PHONECALL! They don´t actually need explosives anymore.

Thirdly, yes, the US cannot lock it´s borders, that is why I mentioned it. As long as there is a way to sneak into your country, people are going to ABUSE THAT. Either for drugrunning, human smuggling or to sneak in a couple of ill-mannered muslims.

Forthly, bombing half a country to shit is about as much a threat to me as to you would be an attack of 12 feet marshmellow man would be. I mean, national security is a fraud as it is, and as long as civilian areas are accesable, YOU CAN BOMB THEM AS YOU LIKE!

And all that 9/11 proofed to me is that american skyscrapers are build like cardhouses, and something mundane as a plane chrashing into it makes it collapse into a neat pile of rubble, also that you can overtake a plane with box-cutters...apparently only a handful of people cling to their lives even if they outnumber the attackers 10 to 1...
Serriously, if the WTC would have behaved like it should, the devestation would have been even worse, smashing all the buildings around it, YOU GOT LUCKY!
9/11 was a once in a lifetime coincedence, that, when it happened as said, will NEVER HAPPEN THAT WAY AGAIN.
It is impossible for all factors accounting for it to realign, and I am no man to have my liberties taken from me, on the pretence that it´ll make me safer...it doesn´t...
Terrorists are by no means a threat, and should probably completely forgotten...in fact, as it is, terrorists help our governments to cut our rights, and impose "security measures" that work bugger all.
Yeah, some planes got kidnapped...here is a security tip that´s been around for decades, SEARCH YOUR PASSENGERS BEFORE BOARDING!

 

[xdiesp]

Julian Assange is a hero and whoever buys into american propaganda is a fascist.

Don't give up your freedom and rights to know the truth out of govt induced fear. Fight the man!

 

[SilentHunter7]

If the US wouldn´t have fucked the Mudjaheddin over back in the 80ies to fight the "evil russkies", there wouldn´t be a pissed off Osama Bin Laden and his mates even wanting to bomb you. Remember kids, if you don´t give someone a reason to hate you, they probably won´t...

That I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, what's done is done, and you can't exactly undo what we did over there, and there's no easy fix to the damage that's been done. But that doesn't mean it's okay for them to come over here and start killing people who had nothing to do with it. Most of them were still in school when all that went down, if they were even born at all.

Also, the if the US was concerned with the safty of it´s allies, the people helping you helping them WON´T DIE...

]

What are they going to do? Post an armed guard outside their house and place of business 24/7, and search everyone that comes within 20 feet of that person? This is Afghanistan, we're talking about. It's a warzone.

Secondly, we haven´t seen random cars explode because the media doesn´t find it news worthy if it didn´t kill at least a dozen innocent bystanders...as you said, terrorists aren´t dumb, they want to TERRORIZE! Nowadays they can do that with a PHONECALL! They don´t actually need explosives anymore.

But people don't die from phone calls. People do die from coordinated bombings.

Thirdly, yes, the US cannot lock it´s borders, that is why I mentioned it. As long as there is a way to sneak into your country, people are going to ABUSE THAT. Either for drugrunning, human smuggling or to sneak in a couple of ill-mannered muslims.

All the more reason not to be handing lists of sensitive targets, and the potential damage hitting said targets could cause.

Forthly, bombing half a country to shit is about as much a threat to me as to you would be an attack of 12 feet marshmellow man would be. I mean, national security is a fraud as it is, and as long as civilian areas are accesable, YOU CAN BOMB THEM AS YOU LIKE!

And all that 9/11 proofed to me is that american skyscrapers are build like cardhouses, and something mundane as a plane chrashing into it makes it collapse into a neat pile of rubble, also that you can overtake a plane with box-cutters...apparently only a handful of people cling to their lives even if they outnumber the attackers 10 to 1...
Serriously, if the WTC would have behaved like it should, the devestation would have been even worse, smashing all the buildings around it, YOU GOT LUCKY!
9/11 was a once in a lifetime coincedence, that, when it happened as said, will NEVER HAPPEN THAT WAY AGAIN.
It is impossible for all factors accounting for it to realign, and I am no man to have my liberties taken from me, on the pretence that it´ll make me safer...it doesn´t...
Terrorists are by no means a threat, and should probably completely forgotten...in fact, as it is, terrorists help our governments to cut our rights, and impose "security measures" that work bugger all.
Yeah, some planes got kidnapped...here is a security tip that´s been around for decades, SEARCH YOUR PASSENGERS BEFORE BOARDING!

You've lost me. If someone bombs half my country it's not a threat to me? I don't follow...

Oh, and it's interesting you brought up searching passengers. Airlines are getting sued for searching passengers, because of civil liberties violations. So yeah.

And the reason noone did anything when the terrorists pulled box cutters out was because standard procedure in a hijacking was to comply with the hijackers. Because up until then, all anyone ever hijacked a plane for was to fly to a country outside U.S. jurisdiction. And one criminal was never worth risking a planeload of passengers. Now if someone did that, you can be damn sure anyone hijacking the plane would get zerg-rushed before he could even say "Allah Akbar".

Personally, if it were up to me, I'd skip the searches all together, and just hand every single passenger boarding the plane a baseball bat. I'd like to see what some prick would do with a box cutter when up against 100 people armed with Louisville sluggers.

 

[Kelethor]

Anon....youv gotta pick your fucking side man! I dunno weather I wanna yell at you or cheer for you.

Plus this assange guy is a real wild card too. on the one hand, he's revealing valuable secrets that could get a lot of people killed, on the other hand, hes basically exposing the truth over sordid government affairs, which is always a good thing.


Needless to say, im on the fence on this one.

 

[pendragon177]

Lol Schrodinger's Cat reference.

I generally tend to avoid any contact with Anon's because of the potential things like this happening. That analogy describes it best.

In reality, the internet is more like a box, and inside that box is a cat named Anonymous, existing in a quantum state of both great hero and wicked villain until an observer looks inside and is immediately driven insane by what he sees.

 

[Chrinik]

Personally, if it were up to me, I'd skip the searches all together, and just hand every single passenger boarding the plane a baseball bat. I'd like to see what some prick would do with a box cutter when up against 100 people armed with Louisville sluggers.

Agreed, that would solve alot of problems. It would probably cause some, too, but me, cannot have everything.
And if people don´t wanna be searched, put a sign up. "By attempting to board the plane you hereby agree to be searched of weaponry with metal detectors and by touching you, if that is against your will, feel free to use a boat, bus, car or other means of transportation to reach your destination, for we do not want you smuggling drugs, weapons or other such devices on board, thank you!"

Yes, people don´t die from phonecalls...but that is not what terrorists want.
They don´t want to rack up a kill count, if their reputation is high enough, they can just threaten to do so and lock down airports, schools, government buildings, waste millions of bucks on police and EOD showing up for nothing, getting everyone to genuinely panic and so on...I hope you catch on.
They want to instill fear and weaken their enemy...they do not need explosives for that nowadays.
Dead people cannot fear them.

And I think you misunderstand me when I talk about "national security"...
Because there is no such thing, that is why bombing half your country cannot damage it, because if there actually was something like national security, there would be no bombings...at all. There is no security, noone is safe. Someone is carrying a bullet or bomb for you right now. The trick is, to die before he finds you.
True security can never be archived, there are too many factors that could kill you even RIGHT NOW...
While you can minimize the chance, you cannot say "it is secure" to be anywhere.

 

[SilentHunter7]

Julian Assange is a hero and whoever buys into american propaganda is a fascist.

And anyone who buys into Assange's rhetoric is a tool. Read the documents, get information from both sides, weed out the chest pumping and self-righteousness, and make an informed opinion.

Don't just take his word for it that everything WikiLeaks does is good, and everything the government does is evil. Just as you shouldn't take the Government's word that everything they do is good, and everything he does is evil.

People have this perception that governments are groups of hyper-competent people working towards something evil. When in reality, most democratic governments are groups of only slightly competent people striving to do good. If anything, a good chunk of these leaks show that the U.S. government, for all it's recent misdeeds, generally strives to uphold the rule of law and respect national sovereignty.

 

[bl4ckh4wk64]

First off, anonymous is no longer a group of heroes. Now it's really just a bunch of kids that think it's funny to post random crap that they think will annoy someone else. 4chan used to do things... They used to do great things, but now that the people that knew what they were talking about left, there's nothing left except newfags. One of my friends completed a slowpoke and they had no clue what it was, they thought it was some new thing that someone wanted to start up...

 

[paragon1]

They call themselves ANONYMOUS! They are hackers on, blah blah blah.

Above is a Sky news report and a BBC news, showing that Anonymous are getting exactly what they don't want. Major Publicity. I wonder how the self proclaimed "Oldfags" will react? I imagine the dubbed "Newfags" will just scream and pretend it's a big deal.

Either way, Anonymous is becoming more into the light and this attack is not going to go overlooked that easily.

I'd say more on the subject, but I fear government agents might arrest me too and make me Number 61 on The Island.

Calumon: So someone is in trouble because he told the truth? :S

Yeah, major corporations tend to not like it when you attack them. Hope you make it to Guatemala before the Black Vans get you!

Oh and Calumon, it isn't because he told the truth. It's because he told the wrong truth.

 

[DiMono]

I'm amazed how the unabashed proliferation of a nation's sensitive info is no longer defined as 'treason'.

A swede living in Australia isn't exactly under American rule.

 

[CrazyMedic]

ok why do people side wit hthis asshole, honstely he is releasing so many documents there is no way he can know what is inside them all I mean for all he knows he is publishing things like a list of cia agents names and their greatest fears, I mean some stuff is secret for a reason it isn't like he is carefully scanning every document.

 

[General_Potatoes]

So a cat invented Porn? wow now i've heard too much

 

[TornadoADV]

I'm amazed how the unabashed proliferation of a nation's sensitive info is no longer defined as 'treason'.

A swede living in Australia isn't exactly under American rule.

We don't charge him with treason, we charge him as a spy, the Espionage Act of 1917 let's the US Government do that.

 

[someotherguy]

I'm sorry but to hell with this rapist. His alleged sexual-assault crime aside, the man has exposed HIGHLY classified material on the damn internet. No, I don't mean historical documents concerning the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars. Those documents are history are fully protected by the First Amendment's Freedom of the Press, look up the Pentagon Papers for a similar case involving the Vietnam War and government leaks. I know the man is Australian, but I'm going to judge him by the American legal system.

However, what is NOT PROTECTED is divulging secrets that pose a national security threat. Like say the locations of HIGHLY IMPORTANT sites according to Homeland Security. If I was a terrorist (be it for Al-Qaeda, Neo-Nazi, IRA, etc.) then a list like that is essentially a travel log of where to commit the most horrific result. That's not freedom of the press, that's putting people's lives in danger. So please do not act all surprised when you see politicians in my country calling for his head, he's not some righteous savior...he's a fucking asshole

First of all.. his 'actions' are such that anyone of us could be accused of.. this is just a massive smear campaign being organised and funded by the people he is outing....In this day and age you REALLY should be more aware of the lies and methods used against people to keep them quiet or to distract PEOPLE LIKE YOU away from what is REALLY going on. You should start thinkig for yourself instead of swallowing what the establishment throws at you.

Secondly.. of all the shit you have seen and read about the details of what is being revealed by this peson.. ARE YOU REALLY SURE that we shouldn't know about this.. and if we do all just BURY OUR HEADS IN THE SAND who will stop things from getting worse, a TRUE FASCIST SOCIETY..because they are certainly not going to get any better.

As for the arguement 'but people are going to be harmed.. waaaa'.. really?.. then they shouldn't be involved.. THAT is what is causing 'harm' to come to them, not the revelations them self.

Assange is a BLOODY HERO, because he knew fine well he would be roasted,(regardless of his current legal status) and Anonymous are the only ones left who have the balls and resources to stick up for our rights (granted them may have more chaotic motives.. but the result is the same.)

While the person you quoted obviously doesn't know whats going on, (The rapist comment mainly)
You have no idea how many urges i'm fighting to post the XKCD sheep comic again. I mean, my count is nearly at 12. /sort of sarcasm.