Anonymous Uncovers Corruption in Wisconsin Labor Dispute

[teknoarcanist]

No one anti-union in this thread seems aware that the unions have already agreed to take pay-cuts in order to keep their bargaining rights -- and Walker has still denied them, proving that the whole move is nothing but one big union-busting hackjob, with the word 'budget' sprinkled on like a spice because it's the political buzz-word right now (just behind 'deficit', 'Obamacare', 'China', and 'macatacahodo 360'.)

 

[spectrenihlus]

The state of Indiana actually did what Wisconsin is trying to do atm about 5 years ago. It is going well for them. Also who here is really subverting democracy when you got state legislators running away so that the democratic process cannot be done. The governor stated explicitly in his campaign that this is what he was going to do.

 

[teknoarcanist]

The state of Indiana actually did what Wisconsin is trying to do atm about 5 years ago. It is going well for them. Also who here is really subverting democracy when you got state legislators running away so that the democratic process cannot be done. The governor stated explicitly in his campaign that this is what he was going to do.

Democrazy: N.
1. A form of authoritarian rule which seeks to disempower civilian organizations, in order to negate voice of same in the governmental process.

Weird. I thought it meant something different...

 

[speakwrite41]

California successfully recalled a governor. Can that happen In Wisconsin?

 

[Happy Sock Puppet]

If you dont like the governor, elect a new one at the next election.

Wisconsin is a recall state. Enough pushing could get this asshat out of office in approximately a year.

 

[SamElliot'sMustache]

It seems that at least some portion of Anonymous reads the New York Times. The part of Walker's bill that basically gives him carte blanche to sell off the state's utilities was mentioned in an opinion piece [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/opinion/25krugman.html] last week.

Is anyone surprised, though? If you are, you must be very comfortable under that rock. It's been pretty much proven [http://www.grist.org/article/2011-02-23-prank-call-provides-proves-billionaire-david-koch-owns] that Governor Scott Walker is in the pocket of the Koch Brothers. The Koch Brothers would love to break up unions, destroy the ability of American workers to dictate to their employers, and force them to accept wages and working conditions identical to China's. All for greater profits.

Maybe we should listen to Warren Buffett: "It's class warfare, my class is winning, but they shouldn't be." [http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/10/buffett/index.html]

Was wondering if anyone else here heard about the "prank call." That Scott Walker is a real American (I like how he suggests sending some of his union-busting ideas over to Rick Snyder in Michigan.). I especially love how the only demand on the table for Wisconsin Democrats is keeping collective bargaining for state workers (which is a reasonable demand). Everything else is not being debated at all.

Speaking of, in all this talk of the states balancing thier budgets, has no one brought up (or even thought) to cut funding for sports stadiums? Every year, states give out huge amounts of money to either build/maintain stadiums, all on taxpayer dollars, but these big conglomerates that own the teams keep all the income. Furthermore, studies [http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/16342/A_Decade_of_Research_on_Sports_Stadiums.html] have shown that their benefit on local economies is negligible compared to the cost of maintaining them, so I have to ask: why? If Comerica wants to own the Detroit Tigers, then let them pay to keep Comerica Park functioning all year round (to be fair, the actual split is something like 60 percent private funding, 40 percent public, but why is it that high for public funding at all?).

I mention this because Wisconsin, like Michigan (or every other state), is similarly obsessed with sports stadium, which is a worse drain on the budgets than social programs that Republicans want to cut at every level (and are almost at the breaking point for how much can be cut). Why is giving money to companies that already make billions more important than making sure that people have food, jobs, or even homes?

 

[Happy Sock Puppet]

The state of Indiana actually did what Wisconsin is trying to do atm about 5 years ago. It is going well for them. Also who here is really subverting democracy when you got state legislators running away so that the democratic process cannot be done. The governor stated explicitly in his campaign that this is what he was going to do.

Filibustering (which is what these WI Dems are doing) is only 'delaying the democratic process' when Democrats do it?

Have you seen anything going on (or not going on) in the Senate the last two years?

 

[Octorok]

I can't decide if I like Anonymous. They are often a lot of utter bastards, and while they have no official stance, their group is still responsible for upholding the Trade Unions. Actions speak louder than their doctrine.

On the whole, no. They aren't advocates for free speech, power to the people, getting rid of corruption etc.

They're a group of bullies who attack people they disagree with, and who break a great deal of laws just so they can think of themselves as some kind of internet freedom fighters, whereas they are merely backing up sites like Wikileaks against a great deal of moral and legal barriers.

I don't want them to get put in jail for 99 years. Just someone to turn up at their house, slap them and point out that they aren't as cool or important as they think they are and need to stop parading about the internet hitting out against whatever group they chose to hate that particular week.

 

[Angryman101]

Destroying unions or trying to hardly seems the best way to going about gaining their support, and just seems would cause unions to dump more money into left wing campaigns.

I have 2 aunts in the teachers unions and they are thoroughly corrupt, and stagnate any meaningful reform in education most of the time, more money more money and more money, both my aunts will make more money retired than they make while working.

I have worked at places where union was trying to get in, one woman in my department filed a restraining order against them for harassing her outside work.

I mean i would love to support unions, the whole better pay better benefits workers rights thing sounds great but how they go about stuff just sits with me wrong. Nevermind that government employees already have benefits and pensions, why do they need collective bargaining? Collective bargaining just says if you do not give us what we want we can shut you down, that is way too much power for state and federal employees to have, especially when it is our tax dollars paying for their salaries, benefits etc, not a private corporation, state workers and federal should get what they get a decent and fair wage and decent and fair benefits but stop trying to leverage our tax dollars into more for you.

I do have a problem with some unions. And honestly think they need a balancing factor. For example... Teachers ultimately serve parents and work for the state (for the most part, I realize private schools are different.) So, while a teachers union should be worried about working conditions and the like, something like I guess the PTA should be worried about and working together on recommending reform. And honestly, teachers should be talking to parents anyway about their salaries. I'm sure many parents would help them get higher salaries.

Nope.jpeg
Higher salaries for teachers equates to potentially more taxes. If there's one thing in the world people fucking hate, it's taxes. So, no, what you're saying is not true. Teachers get shit pay for a huge amount of work, stress, and are in constant fear of getting sued for trying to assert any kind of authority in the classrooms. The unions are necessary because parents can't accept the fact that their kids are fucking evil sometimes and disciplinary action is necessary, so PTAs will never be willing to acquiesce that kind of power to the teachers.

 

[Bon_Clay]

Its a complicated issue. In a lot of cases I'm not a fan of unions as all they do is sap money and slow down everything people do. But teachers do need some protection from idiots sometimes.

All I know is I don't like the way big businesses try to influence stuff like this, so whatever the correct choice is, they need to get the fuck away and let people who know this stuff sort it out.

 

[spectrenihlus]

The state of Indiana actually did what Wisconsin is trying to do atm about 5 years ago. It is going well for them. Also who here is really subverting democracy when you got state legislators running away so that the democratic process cannot be done. The governor stated explicitly in his campaign that this is what he was going to do.

Democrazy: N.
1. A form of authoritarian rule which seeks to disempower civilian organizations, in order to negate voice of same in the governmental process.

Weird. I thought it meant something different...

He ran on this as this as his platform and won. He now wants it to be voted on. I fail to see how this is undemocratic. Btw it isn't a civilian organization it is a government organization that he is trying to dis-empower. As I stated previously Indiana did this exact same thing a few years back and they are doing just fine.

 

[Dendio]

If anything mine has increased: No agenda besides empowering the people.

This seems too good to be true

 

[gsf1200]

Collective bargaining is no big deal. I live in Maryland, and am a government employee. We just got collective bargaining 2 years ago. You know what it got us? A 2% pay CUT the last 2 years! The union is only out for itself. They already agreed to cut workers pay 8% in Wisconsin. Are the union leaders taking pay cuts? They are trying to force all workers to join the union.(that's called a closed shop state) Then they will force all union members to pay union dues. Then some of those dues are given to the politician that the union wants elected. It doesn't matter if you don't want to contribute to a candidate you don't like! The unions are nothing but leeches that live off others hard work. And if teachers want more pay, start teaching! The USA is doing badly educating it's children, compared to the rest of the world! Even though we spend more on education!

 

[Technicka]

Collective bargaining is no big deal. I live in Maryland, and am a government employee. We just got collective bargaining 2 years ago. You know what it got us? A 2% pay CUT the last 2 years! The union is only out for itself. They already agreed to cut workers pay 8% in Wisconsin. Are the union leaders taking pay cuts? They are trying to force all workers to join the union.(that's called a closed shop state) Then they will force all union members to pay union dues. Then some of those dues are given to the politician that the union wants elected. It doesn't matter if you don't want to contribute to a candidate you don't like! The unions are nothing but leeches that live off others hard work. And if teachers want more pay, start teaching! The USA is doing badly educating it's children, compared to the rest of the world! Even though we spend more on education!

It's not exactly Sunny McGainfully Employed-ville when you aren't in a Union, either.

I also live in MD, and I'm not a union worker. Needless to say, when the recession hit, I was just a name on a long list of losses that a handful of board members were okay with. Because they were much more determined to ensure that their golden parachutes were ready when they filed for bankruptcy than to keep their employees - even though we were willing to stay after numerous pay cuts, a raise free, an massive demotions that resulted in loss of benefits.

Are Unions perfect? Not by a long shot. But, for the time being, they're the only defense workers have against corporate interest severely overriding the well-being of its workforce. Don't forget, after all, Unions are the reason we have reasonable work days and the concept of minimum wage was fought for by them.

 

[realslimshadowen]

He ran on this as this as his platform and won.

Swing and a miss [http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2011/02/28/wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-didnt-campaign-on-union-busting]. Try again.

 

[Death on Trapezoids]

Funny how the exposure of corruption, a job traditionally assigned to mass media, has now fallen on internet hackers.

 

[GenericAmerican]

politics....that is all.

 

[Hulyen]

I wish other people would get their fingers out of my dairy, so to speak.

I live in Wisconsin and I'm really sick of all this. I don't agree with cutting away bargaining rights, but quite frankly, I have to pay out for my retirement plan, I have to pay for insurance, yada yada. Why should others get it for free in this hard economic time and I have to pay through the nose?

And why only Wisconsin? Other states are doing it too/working towards this.

My biggest gripe though, is that the teachers are teaching this and not presenting ALL the facts to their students. I think it's incredibly unprofessional and I'm bombarded daily with their opinions and at point downright propaganda. It's not all as clear cut as they'd like to present. Neither side is "right" but we need SOMETHING to change in this state.

I also live in WI and have been following this mess pretty closely (it hits some friends rather close to home) All of public worker pension funds from from PUBLIC WORKERS. None of it is paid by anyone else. It's a huge difference - they're not agreeing to pay into their pensions, they're agreeing to a straight pay cut.

I've been debating this whole thing since it started with various people so I don't really want to get into more right now - I just wanted to clear up that misconception.

Source: http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/

 

[AngryFrenchCanadian]

And that's why I'm glad that I live in Canada, even though we have this kind of on-going feud between the Government and the Teacher's Unions.