Anonymous Uncovers Corruption in Wisconsin Labor Dispute

[XavierPrice]

"It has come to our attention that the brothers, David and Charles Koch - the billionaire owners of Koch Industries - have long attempted to usurp American Democracy. Their actions to undermine the legitimate political process in Wisconsin are the final straw. Starting today we fight back," a statement purportedly from Anonymous read.

So how long before they attack George Soros for funding, backing, or creating nearly every left-wing media outlet? You know, spending billions on smear campaigns, political rallies, and organizations like Moveon.org and their ilk.

I mean, if you don't have any political leanings, then don't just stop at one political funder. Attack them all! Or be proving to be hypocrites.

 

[Sight Unseen]

It seems that at least some portion of Anonymous reads the New York Times. The part of Walker's bill that basically gives him carte blanche to sell off the state's utilities was mentioned in an opinion piece [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/opinion/25krugman.html] last week.

Is anyone surprised, though? If you are, you must be very comfortable under that rock. It's been pretty much proven [http://www.grist.org/article/2011-02-23-prank-call-provides-proves-billionaire-david-koch-owns] that Governor Scott Walker is in the pocket of the Koch Brothers. The Koch Brothers would love to break up unions, destroy the ability of American workers to dictate to their employers, and force them to accept wages and working conditions identical to China's. All for greater profits.

Maybe we should listen to Warren Buffett: "It's class warfare, my class is winning, but they shouldn't be." [http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/10/buffett/index.html]

Was wondering if anyone else here heard about the "prank call." That Scott Walker is a real American (I like how he suggests sending some of his union-busting ideas over to Rick Snyder in Michigan.). I especially love how the only demand on the table for Wisconsin Democrats is keeping collective bargaining for state workers (which is a reasonable demand). Everything else is not being debated at all.

Speaking of, in all this talk of the states balancing thier budgets, has no one brought up (or even thought) to cut funding for sports stadiums? Every year, states give out huge amounts of money to either build/maintain stadiums, all on taxpayer dollars, but these big conglomerates that own the teams keep all the income. Furthermore, studies [http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/16342/A_Decade_of_Research_on_Sports_Stadiums.html] have shown that their benefit on local economies is negligible compared to the cost of maintaining them, so I have to ask: why? If Comerica wants to own the Detroit Tigers, then let them pay to keep Comerica Park functioning all year round (to be fair, the actual split is something like 60 percent private funding, 40 percent public, but why is it that high for public funding at all?).

I mention this because Wisconsin, like Michigan (or every other state), is similarly obsessed with sports stadium, which is a worse drain on the budgets than social programs that Republicans want to cut at every level (and are almost at the breaking point for how much can be cut). Why is giving money to companies that already make billions more important than making sure that people have food, jobs, or even homes?

On a similar line, ending the Bush Tax cuts for the top 2-3% would also generate billions of dollars for the government in tax revenue that the taxpayers could EASILY afford to pay out without them hardly noticing it missing (granted this is probably federal and not state level, but I'm not American so Im not sure). Why are we making the middle to lower class people lose about 20% of their ~$40k salary to fund the government and letting the richest, and most priviledged upper echelon keep their tax cuts when they hardly need that money compared to the middle class people.

It's even worse that they're trying to take away the individuals rights to work together for the benefit of all. Just seems like a big power grab, because people are much less likely to cause problems to their overlord when they feel weak isolated and alone, which is exactly what taking away collective bargaining is taking steps towards doing.

Revolutions centered around the middle class work because the individuals, while weak in individual power, combine en masse and create an extraordinary power. It's happening all over the Middle- East right now, and it seems almost like the Republicans are trying to squash any sense of collectivity and group belonging (among the left wing anyway) while also at the same time taking away the individual's salaries and benefits (making them more likely to be stuck working and less likely to protest for fear of losing what little they have.)

I really hope something happens that can somehow prevent the corporations from buying off politicians.

 

[rioki]

Gentlemen, thinking that Anonymous is "one group" actually if far from what it really is. Many, including Aaron Bar, got this fundamentally wrong. Anonymous is a huge group of people centered around the chans [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/List_of_*chan_boards]. Many include themselves in Anonymous and the you can find all opinions, creeds or ideologies that where thought up on the face of earth (and supposedly elsewhere). The important part is that IT IS NOT ORGANIZED.

True for any given moment and for any given time there is a small group of vocal people. These will voice their opinion and might find a sufficient amount of supported; or not, since "/b/ is not your personal army". The important part to remember is that tops 1% of Anonymous actually is active in any raid or event. Most of them will just repeatedly hit F5 (if you know what I mean).

Anonymous is getting some press since they are HUGE and many actions where done under the banner of Anonymous. But thinking that there is a correlation of one action to the other and even thinking that the same people did it is just a fallacy.

 

[Dastardly]

snip

Labor unions are far from perfect. They are full of corruption, and often argue for more than some of us are entitled to as workers. But that's not the point of fights like this.

Businesses are also very corrupt as organizations. The goal is to get away with paying workers as little as possible, working them as long as possible, and passing the "savings" on to other folks that are down there on the factory floor. That means shitting all over the little guy.

Labor unions work to get the workers paid as much as possible for as little work as possible. That isn't necessarily a good thing, either. It's just as unbalanced as the above, simply in the opposite direction.

The point is that both organizations, while equally corrupt, should also be equally empowered in these exchanges. The tug-of-war between the two is exactly what gets us to a balanced middle ground. Sure, the balance goes back and forth, sometimes one way or the other... but that's what the process of compromise looks like.

(Same thing happens with supply and demand, right? That's what business constantly pushes on us--that tug-of-war is what ensures a "free market," meaning that neither side has complete control over the proceedings.)

But here, businesses are trying to buy government into squashing the opposition. They want a monopoly on working conditions and pay, allowing no way for the workers to band together and mount a balanced opposition to mistreatment. "We get guns, and you get to be afraid of our guns," is not how it should work.

It's not about saying "The unions are right," or, "The unions are wrong." It's about saying, "The unions need to exist as much as the businesses do." Otherwise, it's like a courtroom where only the prosecution gets to speak.

 

[MrGalactus]

Not really sure why Anonymous would get involved in this whole thing. Unless those utilities thing also includes internet services as well.

They're an activist group. They defend more than just tmemselves.

 

[rokudan]

Well, its not like George Soros, a man who says he has no problems collaborating with the Nazi's during WWII

//
"Steve Kroft of 60 Minutes asked him that. Was it difficult? ?Not at all,? Soros answered.
?No feeling of guilt?? asked Kroft. ?No,? said Soros. ?There was no sense that I shouldn?t be there. If I wasn?t doing it, somebody else would be taking it away anyhow. Whether I was there or not. So I had no sense of guilt.?
//

and who made 2 Billion dollars shorting the stock market after 9-11 is funnling millions of dollars through various organizations attacking republicans and......oh wait.

 

[Bretty]

In my opinion this world is ruled with checks and balances.

If Anonomous ever comes to be considered a 'watchdog' then the world we lived in demanded it. Remember that the people in Anon are just regular peeps who have had enough. Eventually, we all get fed up with the way things are going.

 

[hooksashands]

It's really depressing when people who dominate the information war use retarded shit like "LULZ" when getting their point across.

 

[GonzoGamer]

I knew entrusting the wealthy to answer concerns of the lower class when they are totally out of touch with the actual gripes was a major pitfall of the current budget situation, but i'm starting to think we'd be better off hiring random hobos to balance America's budget.

It's sad because the conservative are Supposed to be the ones we elect to do that. Unfortunately for the last 30 years their goal seems more to damage the democratic party, marginalize homosexuals & minorities, and getting everyone to adhere to Christian moral values.
They aren't actually conservative anymore, they're just religious fundamentalist.

The conservatives should be the first one's saying these moral concerns should have nothing to do with the government. They should also be the ones who argue AGAINST huge tax breaks for the top 2% earners, landlords, and big businesses. While we're at it, it's the conservatives who should be protecting the environment as well. Teddy started that whole movement.

If they actually ran people who would actually be conservative (and that means cutting the over-bloated defense budget too) I might actually vote for them every once in a while.

And I'm not a liberal either, I think they're pretty useless too.

I guess, like anonymous, my official position is disappointment in all our so-called "leaders."

 

[DTWolfwood]

but they care very much about what Evelyn Beatrice Hall said. don't they? well maybe not the dying part XD

 

[Dave did I really just post with my last name lol]

The issue here is not private vs public employment, its how we are trying to solve our budget problems. Everything else does seem to be a distraction. Why is it so hard to realize that budgets issues are solved by raising revenue and spending cuts; cuts that won't inspire thousands of people to descend on the capital?...

I absolutely agree, but the trouble is, any way you try to resolve the budget shortfall is going to make someone mad. The question is, what's in the budget that's fat to be cut and what's good meat that should stay? That's what so many people disagree on. The standard party lines are just hard to reconcile, so when one party is in power and makes cuts, everyone on the other side freaks out. Truth be told, a few protesting teachers isn't exactly a huge segment of the population.

(One last bit of pro-conservative irony: the left is bemoaning Walker rushing the budget repair bill through without giving people a chance to know what's happening or react, when a year ago the Democrat-controlled legislature passed the Democratic former governor's [huge tax-hike] repair bill in a day. Oh, politics.)

Again, on-topic: I'd like to echo those who are pointing out that Anonymous isn't a political body or organized unit. It's a collection of people who associate together and generally share opinions (at least when those opinions involve lulz).

 

[The Youth Counselor]

Quilted Northern and Angel Soft always felt too soft. Wiping my ass with them feels like wuping my ass with a pillow, and that's just not right.

 

[Addicted Muffin]

bros, we're doing good....

but i find it funny how Anon can tackle huge corperate super-powers....

but they cant knock over a fucking card stand....

 

[Rythe]

The idea that State and Federal employees can bargain for their pay is simple stupidity. These aren't private corporations out to make a buck, it's the government, and we have elected officials. If state workers need more pay and such, then they just have to elect people who will do it for them. Unions are simple bloated bureaucracy in the process that sap funds from state employees for their own agendas, which by all indications, is more and more political these days. It's an obvious case of government funds going directly towards politics. If you can't see something wrong with that, then you're not as smart as you think you are.

This bill has nothing to do with public unions (which have grossly overstepped good bounds in many cases and could use a good trimming. This cry for empowering the worker more is hit and miss for actually doing anything positive here in the US now. More often miss in my opinion.)

The missing Wisconsin Senators are, essentially, circumventing our governing system for the rule of the minority. This is bad. They're giving the middle finger to all the people who elected the other side of the isle and ditching their responsibilities just because they don't personally like what's going on. If this isn't one of the most dangerous precedents to our democracy/republic in modern times, I'll eat my dirty, sweat-stained hat. If you can't see how this is a bad thing to the core of our system because of the politics clouding the issue, then you are just an idiot who's crying because you aren't getting your way this time around.

Privatizing utilities wouldn't be a bad idea, necessarily. Private sector outperforms the government just about always. On the other hand, it's when the government contracts out to the private sector that things can get retarded very, very quickly in the US. So it could go either way, but seems more often the case that it cuts costs. That said, putting them up for no bid to whoever they want is baaaad. Bad bad bad. That part should get cut from the law.

I've yet to hear a good thing to come out of Anonymous recently. I'm actually reminded of a story that said they digitally stalked a minor and posed all sorts of threats for sh*z and giggles. And as much as they are a loose group of vigilantes, they seem pretty politicized to me given recent track record.

 

[Realitycrash]

Seems like there is more of a special-branch of Anonymous that have been doing the work lately. I doubt the majority of them agrees with everything.

 

[millertime059]

I absolutely agree, but the trouble is, any way you try to resolve the budget shortfall is going to make someone mad. The question is, what's in the budget that's fat to be cut and what's good meat that should stay? That's what so many people disagree on. The standard party lines are just hard to reconcile, so when one party is in power and makes cuts, everyone on the other side freaks out. Truth be told, a few protesting teachers isn't exactly a huge segment of the population.

You have made several good points. One thing that is not mentioned nearly enough is that after the proposed pension cuts/ healthcare costs the state employees are still far better off than almost everyone in the private sector.

The governor made it well known what some of his proposals were for budget cuts before the election. This was not some hidden agenda, this was his platform. He won. A majority of the state of Wisconson that voted did so in his favor. This is not democracy being subverted. If you don't like his policies then get off your high horse and do something about it next time.

I hope people hate it, I hope they realise the consequences of elections. I hope people get off their lazy asses and actually research candidates before they vote. If you find such policies to be so egregious, then do something about it BEFORE the vote is in. Get involved! Tell people about the candidates! Inform people. Lazy politics are what got our country into this mess. People aren't invested until the shit hits the fan. Then they just complain about it, saying the government is running roughshod over them and ignoring the will of the people. Well it's only because we let them.

[/rant]

Sorry these protesters annoy me. Not because I disagree with their position (I do) but because they are only interested in complaining after the fact. If people had such fervor before the crooks, I mean candidates, were elected maybe they would have better policies. If they were more involved before, but the candidates got elected anyway, well you lost. There are consequences, your opinion isn't the only one. Don't hold a state hostage while you go and pout then.

 

[DevilWolf47]

I knew entrusting the wealthy to answer concerns of the lower class when they are totally out of touch with the actual gripes was a major pitfall of the current budget situation, but i'm starting to think we'd be better off hiring random hobos to balance America's budget.

It's sad because the conservative are Supposed to be the ones we elect to do that. Unfortunately for the last 30 years their goal seems more to damage the democratic party, marginalize homosexuals & minorities, and getting everyone to adhere to Christian moral values.
They aren't actually conservative anymore, they're just religious fundamentalist.

The conservatives should be the first one's saying these moral concerns should have nothing to do with the government. They should also be the ones who argue AGAINST huge tax breaks for the top 2% earners, landlords, and big businesses. While we're at it, it's the conservatives who should be protecting the environment as well. Teddy started that whole movement.

If they actually ran people who would actually be conservative (and that means cutting the over-bloated defense budget too) I might actually vote for them every once in a while.

And I'm not a liberal either, I think they're pretty useless too.

I guess, like anonymous, my official position is disappointment in all our so-called "leaders."

I think Republican hostility towards McCain might have been the real evidence for that. McCain predates Reagan's brutal rape of the American economy that was furthered by the Bush family, he actually remembered a lot of old Conservative values. To this end? He actually advocated some of the same policies as Obama, which people were calling SOCIALISTIC.

I don't know what the fuck happened in the mid 20th century, but the Democrats and Republicans became a completely different kettle of fish to what they used to be. Mind you that's assuming they actually stick to the fucking creed of their parties instead of wasting time lining their fucking pockets.


No wonder i like Anonymous. I too am sick to death of our leaders. That's America for you. The petty thief gets jail time and a ruined life, the master thief becomes a leader. The xenophobia and hysteria of the Red Scare created open wounds that corporate greed was able to fester in. With our current rates of energy efficiency and medical care, if our country doesn't flat out collapse in a couple of decades, we'll be looking at a full blown depression because our "Leaders" had no fucking foresight and didn't plan ahead. Horrible education policies, poverty policies, tax policies...
Remind me, how did this country become a superpower in the first place anyway?

 

[millertime059]

*snip*

Well said sir. The thing is I find it hard to get worked up over public money funding political agendas, mainly because I live in Illinois. at least your state has the courtesy to be subtle about stealing your money.

 

[shadowmagus]

The thing that people are misunderstanding is that this isn't what anonymous is, it also is what anonymous has always been. Anonymous is completely up it's own ass, but it isn't.

Anonymous simply is.