Anti-Game Critic Says "This Generation Will Give You Massacres"

[Terminate421]

Why do these people have access to the public far more than we do?

 

[Elvaril]

If video games cause people to commit massacres, it sure is a good thing that Genghis Khan did not have access to a 360.

 

[1337mokro]

Which is exactly how the previous prediction about violent media went right?

Oh wait it seems that with a healthy non-real outlet for their violence and considerably less free time violent crimes actually nosedived. I welcome these new soothsayers and mystics who wish to predict things about the future based on their ideas about a particular medium. They can join the Bible Doomsday predictors and Rock and Roll haters in the ranks of people nobody actually takes seriously.

 

[Something Amyss]

Dear Mr. Grossman

I kill fake people. You kill real people. Yet I'm the murderer?

Go fuck yourself

That is all

Sincerely, someone with a working brain.

The hypocrisy is astounding.

But hey, it's designed for scare tactics, not thinking people.

 

[Trishbot]

Actually, isn't the homicide rate with youth these days DOWN compared to prior decades?

Beyond that, I'm pretty sure there was plenty of violence LONG before video games were around. If it's not video games, it's movies. If it's not movies, it's TV. If it's not TV, it's comic books. If it's not comic books, it's rock and roll music. If it's not rock and roll music, it's gothic horror novels. If it's not novels, it's religion. If it's not religion, it's a lack of religion. If it's not a lack of religion, it's communism. If' it's not communism, it's democracy. If it's not democracy, it's Santa Claus.

Blame everybody else... same song, different verse.

 

[King Kazma]

Trends in gun related violence have been going down in America since the 90's has it not. Wish people would use data and not bullshit.

 

[Reyold]

While I generally respect soldiers, this guy's... well, describing him as "out there" is probably too nice.

Why do these people have access to the public far more than we do?

Because sensationalism sells like hotcakes, that's why.

On a more serious note, I'd like to partake in some effort to counteract the nonsense that goes on in the media circus. If nothing else, it'd be better than doing nothing.

No, the disintegration of the family structure and disregard of parental responsibilities are whats to blame for rising murder rates. If there ARE any rising rates. Hasn't murder and violent crime as a whole actually gone DOWN over the years?

See that? That text in bold? That's why there are morons gunning for regulating M-rated games, because the parents are too friggin' lazy to do it themselves, even though there is a detailed rating system, for a medium that is far better regulated than any other.

People astound me sometimes...

 

[Matthi205]

Why do these idiots act like GTA and Call of Duty were the only video games ever made and being played?

Because they know nothing about video games. They look at the figures, GTA and CoD are easily the best selling franchises.

And yes, hyporcisy: Advocating the killing of real people who may or may not be terrorists, but at the same time forbidding the killing of fake people, presumably because he thinks them to be an endangered species. Actually, do we know what IQ range most of these people occupy? Because my guess is 80-90, given that the guy calls himself a "professor of killology".

And on top of that: gun control. It works everywhere else, and gun-related murders are still a few times higher in the US than anywhere else.

 

[Whatwhat]

snip

I mean, the term "killology" is enough to scoff at, but now I wonder if the US Army does intelligence testing as a part of its officer selection.

Well this man proves that it does and if it finds any they get rid of you as fast they can (USA this was a joke. You still understand humour, old pal? Buddy-o? You won't invade my country, please? We are in this NATO thingamajig so you shouldn't...)

 

[Shocksplicer]

Is it ironic that this man himself genuinely deserves to be shot and killed?

I think it might be...

 

[Lunar Templar]

sad thing is, there's even more, equally stupid people that think this moron is right.

I personally, can't wait for people like this to fade into the void, tired of hearing about them since none of them have anything new to say and keep siting games that aren't terribly relevant anymore.

 

[DrunkOnEstus]

It looks like Lt. Col. Dave Grossman has also co-authored a science fiction novel, where "sentient wooden ships travel beneath canvas sails in a universe that is corrosive to technology." Elves and dwarves are also aliens.

Spoiler: Link to book summary on Grossman's website

http://www.killology.com/book_twospace_summary.htm

OT: Actually, the source article sums up my reaction pretty nicely:

"The gangs have declared war on our cops," announced Grossman, whose talk was long on emotion, and short on supportive evidence and detailed reasoning.

I have a very strong feeling that this man is a 20th level master troll, whether it's on purpose or due to complete PTSD-induced delusions. And he's getting fed.

 

[RJ 17]

"Killology"? Riiiiiiiight...

It just grows tiresome that these people refuse to give up despite the fact that most every study conducted on the matter returns no substantial correlation between games and real-world violence. What ever happened to people just being plain-old crazy? Oh, well I guess that explination is too simple. No, clearly something else - some kind of outside influence - MADE them go nuts and start killing people. Couldn't be that they were mentally disturbed in the first place.

What's that? Adam Lanza's mother knew full well that her child was fucked up in the head? He had a predisposition to random acts of violence? No, no, it wasn't the games damnit!

I've said it once, I'll say it again: if your kid can't tell the difference between fantasy (i.e. games and movies) and reality, then you've got bigger problems then violent games.

 

[LarenzoAOG]

More massacres have been attributed to mail services than video games, so I'll be expecting Grossman to try to get mail outlawed any day soon.

For the curious: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_postal_killings

 

[Username Redacted]

Ok, while we often refer to these people as nuts, this guy seems to be leading the pack, as is anyone who follows violence reducing advice from a Professor of 'Killology'.

The real question then becomes does his website also offer degrees in Murderonomy and Murderology?

 

[NeutralDrow]

...forget the video games for a moment.

Somewhat ironically, Grossman didn't seem shy about exposing his own predisposition toward violence in the address. He warned that "all hell will break out" when the U.S. pulls out of Afghanistan and said there's only one way to deal with the worst of the nation's enemies. "We cannot deter these people," he said. "All we can do is track them down and kill them."

Please tell me these are two separate thoughts, because if he is conflating these two things, this man is an idiot. I suspect they're separate thoughts, so he's not under the woefully mistaken assumption that the Taliban are among "the worst of this nation's enemies," and is properly noting that there are only certain groups that cannot be deterred, so I have to give him some cred

He pointed out that dozens of children are killed in schools every year by gun-toting maniacs, while not one has died in a fire in more than 50 years.

<url=http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Fire-Prevention/fires-factsheet.html>THIS MAN IS AN IDIOT.

Ok, while we often refer to these people as nuts, this guy seems to be leading the pack, as is anyone who follows violence reducing advice from a Professor of 'Killology'.

The real question then becomes does his website also offer degrees in Murderonomy and Murderology?

I think those are exclusive programs at Stabworth University, actually.

 

[zalithar]

I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that the "former" qualifier to being a west point psychology professor is there for a good reason; and I don't give credence to "military scientists," especially ones that name their field "killology." Seriously this is ridiculous.

 

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

He is wrong, and every generation has massacres.

 

[bravetoaster]

Going by the article and the thread thus far, this is embarrassing all around, although I suppose it doesn't help that none of Grossman's actual argument was really presented (or dissected) for actual discussion or criticism.

On Killing is an excellent book, at least if you're interested in trying to understand how/why people can/do ever kill other humans.

Spoiler

Being a pacifist, I found this to be an extremely distressing concept for quite some time. That book actually examined how and why people are able to kill other people, which, strange as it may sound, was profoundly helpful in relieving the serious anxiety I felt about the fact that there were people in the world--lots of people, even--who had killed other people or who were capable of that. Also, mock "killology" for being a silly-sounding word, but I've not encountered anyone or anything that was able to provide an explanation for or serious reflection on the act of killing.

Having read that and On Combat (a more recent, interesting-but-different book, albeit with more faulty conjecture), the man seems to know and explain a good bit about interpersonal violence and conflict. He's also very clearly not a gamer, as becomes woefully clear in some sections of On Combat. His original argument against video games--at least from an early edition of On Killing--was that, very specifically, arcade-style games in which you used (increasingly) realistic weapons to fire at (increasingly) realistic simulations of other people were dangerous/bad.

Spoiler

Very oversimplified, his argument is that most people don't actually want to intentionally shoot another person and, in training people to shoot real people, there is always someone in charge of them to order them to fire. Also that repetitive training is needed to actually do well when the time comes for such people to pull the trigger on another person. ...but arcade-style games with realistic weapons don't have a strict authority figure to monitor you or tell you to shoot and instead leave the decision to fire up to the individual (and, it being a game, of course you're going to shoot--that's the point) and can (potentially) help desensitize or acclimate the individual to the blood and gore caused by firing at a person. I'm trying to sum up dozens of pages of text in a few sentences and not doing it proper justice, but I think that's about the core of it.

I don't think his argument is, itself, bulletproof (ha! see what I did there?), but it is an interesting one, relevant to gamers, and worth discussion and analysis. If nothing else, shouldn't we be aware of the (best) arguments against video games so we can defend their existence and/or reevaluate our culture and entertainment media?

 

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that the "former" qualifier to being a west point psychology professor is there for a good reason; and I don't give credence to "military scientists," especially ones that name their field "killology." Seriously this is ridiculous.

Maybe he had to play a lot of Hitman games for his thesis?