App Store Pulling Games That Include the Confederate Flag - UPDATE

[LucBen999]

Absolutely shameful.

Even if you were the type of self-righteous, book-burning villain who would have a game pulled from a major distribution platform like the App Store solely because you found its use of a confederate flag upsetting, you'd still have to admit that merely protecting your fee fees is not worth the loss of eliminating games using the flag in a historical context... right?

 

[RaikuFA]

Someone bring me up to speed here, whats all this moral outrage about flags now?

And why is it still not directed at the lack of gun control?

It's because the guy who was part of the latest mass shooting (which, in terms of innocent loose of African American lives, has been dwarfed by inner city shooting deaths since it occurred) was a white supremacist who flew the Confederate, Union of South Africa and Rhodesian flag (of note: people who support all three flags for their nostalgic or nationalistic symbolism where not amused by the association) so suddenly the flags are evil and stuff, so they need to be removed.

They've always been off the shelves, just as we've always been at war with Eurasia.

...im still missing a connection here.

This isnt the first and most certainly isnt the most serious shooting incident in the US in the last decade. Nor will it be the last.

Why go after something so trivial?

Why are they still not adressing the core problems?

Because the core problem is the NRA. You know, the guys with guns that use them to intimitate people into scapegoating others?

OT: So dukes of Hazard reruns will be pulled now?

 

[SirAroun]

A Confederate BATTLE Flag (not the civilian flag) is ok it is in a work about the Civil War but is totally inappropriate flying on the grounds of a modern state capital. Especially right after a racially motivated killing when said flag is used as a international symbol of racism. Why is this so hard for people to understand!

 

[vagabondwillsmile]

Someone bring me up to speed here, whats all this moral outrage about flags now?

And why is it still not directed at the lack of gun control?

It's because the guy who was part of the latest mass shooting (which, in terms of innocent loose of African American lives, has been dwarfed by inner city shooting deaths since it occurred) was a white supremacist who flew the Confederate, Union of South Africa and Rhodesian flag (of note: people who support all three flags for their nostalgic or nationalistic symbolism where not amused by the association) so suddenly the flags are evil and stuff, so they need to be removed.

They've always been off the shelves, just as we've always been at war with Eurasia.

It's not necessarily that that particular flag IS evil, but it has come to REPRESENT evil. Symbols can take different meanings - just look as what the Nazis did to peaceful Buddhist (it's been used in many cultures throughout history though) symbol. We don't think, "All is well" when we see it now do we?. The people flying tend to be people filled with hate, xenophobia, and ignorance. Whatever it's past significance, "true meaning" or however else people want to the think about it. It has become, and is now, a symbol of hate. Otherwise, why does the KKK beat off to it so much? It sure as hell isn't some psuedo-noble "sovereignty of the the individual" garbage.

On the article: This is rediculous. Let me be the first to say, "Fuck the Stars and Bars". But that battle flag is a part of history. It shouldn't be erased. The more history people erase, the more people forget. The more people forget, the more likely history is to repeat. In Alabama there is a stretch of interstate between Montgomery and Mobile. On one side of the road there is a bill board that says, "This is America! Love it or Leave it!", immediately above another that says "Go to church! Or the Devil will get you!, whilst on the other side of the street and a few klicks later there is a giant Confederate battle flag. On the one hand, this scene disgusted me to my core. But on the other it lets us know who the fringe are, we can see its standard bearers and have no doubt of their ignorance. And we can be reminded of whom we don't ever want to become.

 

[Ukomba]

As glad as I am that they are the Democrat symbols down from state capitals, this draconian censorship seems mental. This is a flag, it's not that Monolith from Dead Space, it doesn't actually CAUSE racism. I dislike how people use the victims dead bodies as a podium to push their agenda.

 

[Vanilla_Knight]

It is sort of sad that this is what moved me to make an account to comment, but alas.

This sort of agenda pushing in the name of the victims is sickening, honestly. It is a testament to how far-gone the atmosphere surrounding race and political correctness is that just the mere historical use of a confederate flag in a video game prompts a takedown of the media. What's worse is that this is ultimately self-serving, corporations are doing this to promote themselves, again sickening. I live in a State that was divided neighbor vs neighbor, brother against brother in the war; I can't fathom how unbelievably absent-minded or self-centered it must be that someone would even suggest censorship of this level. They are video games, they aren't racist manifestos.

I hope that this circumstance doesn't give rise to more unneeded and belligerent identity politics that I have witnessed in other fronts of social causes. "Racism" will further be used to crusade, in this instance against those who would oppose Apple's stupid decision, assuredly if that were the case. More patreon accounts are on the horizon, possibly.

Thank you, Lizzy. That quote about Schindler's list was most fitting.

 

[Brian Tams]

Let's ban all civil war movies next.

 

[Janaschi]

I love it when factual and historic iconography is swept under the rug through an obvious pretense - a.k.a. political correctness. -sarcasm-

In all seriousness, I am not actually offended. This news genuinely cracks me up.

 

[Tanklover]

People are all about free market and the like but the moment the market doesn't agree with them they start complaining, Apple is free to ban or sell whatever they want, and you're free to go somewhere else to buy it. Whether it's wrong for them to ban X or Y that is subjective and non important.

I'm not from the US or have ever lived there, BUT from what I know this flag has been used by groups such as KKK to represent themselves, and it was used by the side of a war that wanted to keep having slaves, SO, with that in mind, I could see how african americans will feel it's wrong for people to wave these flags around specially in public government buildings. As for the games that show the flag etc, I don't see a problem about historic games (not those glorifying the flag or its racists background) showing the flag specially if its for historical accuracy. But you know, someone will make some sort of website where you can buy all this shit and install it in your phone, that's the way thinks should work imo.

And for the people saying this is all a "knee jerk" reaction, I wonder how they want people to react and go about making things better once it becomes glaringly obvious it is. In Australia it seems like they banned guns after there was a really terrible shooting and they said they had enough, should they NOT have reacted to it? would that have pleased the "knee jerk" alarmists. And let's not forget that certain group of angry internet idiots got REALLY mad REALLY quickly about certain articles on the internet and in mass requested a sponsor to withdraw backing from a certain website, that sounds pretty knee jerky to me as well, yet it's not wrong when the other side does it.?

Individuals in the US are free to have their flags and wave it on their porches, even start making and selling their own flags since now they can't buy them at walmart and the like. Seems to me like they are defending a symbol for all the wrong reasons and can't even imagine how anyone might be offended by that flag when in their minds its all well and good, never bother to look at the other side of things. Guess that's what happens when your side has never been the target of so much discrimination for so long.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What if I want to play Robert E lee Civil War General!?

 

[Vanilla_Knight]

People are all about free market and the like but the moment the market doesn't agree with them they start complaining, Apple is free to ban or sell whatever they want, and you're free to go somewhere else to buy it. Whether it's wrong for them to ban X or Y that is subjective and non important.

I'm not from the US or have ever lived there, BUT from what I know this flag has been used by groups such as KKK to represent themselves, and it was used by the side of a war that wanted to keep having slaves, SO, with that in mind, I could see how african americans will feel it's wrong for people to wave these flags around specially in public government buildings. As for the games that show the flag etc, I don't see a problem about historic games (not those glorifying the flag or its racists background) showing the flag specially if its for historical accuracy. But you know, someone will make some sort of website where you can buy all this shit and install it in your phone, that's the way thinks should work imo.

And for the people saying this is all a "knee jerk" reaction, I wonder how they want people to react and go about making things better once it becomes glaringly obvious it is. In Australia it seems like they banned guns after there was a really terrible shooting and they said they had enough, should they NOT have reacted to it? would that have pleased the "knee jerk" alarmists. And let's not forget that certain group of angry internet idiots got REALLY mad REALLY quickly about certain articles on the internet and in mass requested a sponsor to withdraw backing from a certain website, that sounds pretty knee jerky to me as well, yet it's not wrong when the other side does it.?

Individuals in the US are free to have their flags and wave it on their porches, even start making and selling their own flags since now they can't buy them at walmart and the like. Seems to me like they are defending a symbol for all the wrong reasons and can't even imagine how anyone might be offended by that flag when in their minds its all well and good, never bother to look at the other side of things. Guess that's what happens when your side has never been the target of so much discrimination for so long.

It is blatantly obvious from your own admission that your judgement of what the flag means to others is derived from an ethnocentric viewpoint of Americans (including African Americans) and a narrow historical context of the Civil War, not to mention your lack of knowledge about the modern political landscape and subsequently the definition of an open market - not being a market that one 'everyone' agrees with. This is one of the most profoundly stupid censorship issues recently in America considering how many corporations are simultaneously advocating barring the flag from their products, it rivals that of Germany's eradication of Swastika memorabilia. And it is censorship, I know how certain people like to push the idea that censorship can only be administered by a government, however all is needed is to show someone the way to a dictionary. By any authority private or public (government)- "Suppressing parts deemed objectionable on moral, political, military, or other grounds."

Some commentators have seemed to conflate Apple's decision to remove games with that of the arguably insensitive use of the flag on official government grounds. They are not the same issue, and the focus of this separate action I would think is derailing by making it political to that extent. The fact that you can still buy a flag and hang it on your porch is not an argument, and there is nothing to gain from it's inclusion, it's irrelevant.

If you're going to mention GamerGate then just do it.

"Seems to me like they are defending a symbol for all the wrong reasons and can't even imagine how anyone might be offended by that flag when in their minds its all well and good, never bother to look at the other side of things." You can sit there making generalizing judgments about others and their stance all day, but you should really just read what they post instead.

edit: I will also have to edit in that the fact Apple is indeed within their right as a company to choose what they will and will not sell, that has always been beside the point and is not relevant in dismissing the criticisms that have been levied at Apple or other corporations.

 

[cikame]

Taylor Swift probably asked them to do it.

 

[DEAD34345]

People are all about free market and the like but the moment the market doesn't agree with them they start complaining, Apple is free to ban or sell whatever they want, and you're free to go somewhere else to buy it. Whether it's wrong for them to ban X or Y that is subjective and non important.

I'm not from the US or have ever lived there, BUT from what I know this flag has been used by groups such as KKK to represent themselves, and it was used by the side of a war that wanted to keep having slaves, SO, with that in mind, I could see how african americans will feel it's wrong for people to wave these flags around specially in public government buildings. As for the games that show the flag etc, I don't see a problem about historic games (not those glorifying the flag or its racists background) showing the flag specially if its for historical accuracy. But you know, someone will make some sort of website where you can buy all this shit and install it in your phone, that's the way thinks should work imo.

And for the people saying this is all a "knee jerk" reaction, I wonder how they want people to react and go about making things better once it becomes glaringly obvious it is. In Australia it seems like they banned guns after there was a really terrible shooting and they said they had enough, should they NOT have reacted to it? would that have pleased the "knee jerk" alarmists. And let's not forget that certain group of angry internet idiots got REALLY mad REALLY quickly about certain articles on the internet and in mass requested a sponsor to withdraw backing from a certain website, that sounds pretty knee jerky to me as well, yet it's not wrong when the other side does it.?

Individuals in the US are free to have their flags and wave it on their porches, even start making and selling their own flags since now they can't buy them at walmart and the like. Seems to me like they are defending a symbol for all the wrong reasons and can't even imagine how anyone might be offended by that flag when in their minds its all well and good, never bother to look at the other side of things. Guess that's what happens when your side has never been the target of so much discrimination for so long.

Except that in the case of apps it isn't a free market at all. Apple totally controls the distribution of apps on Apple devices (aka the vast majority of all mobile apps sold), and Apple and Google together control the entirety of mobile app distribution for all practical purposes. There is no free market, just monopolization by two huge mega corporations. The free market solution would be to legally forbid Apple and Google from restricting and controlling the sales of apps on their stores, so that the apps could compete with one another in an actual free market.

Free markets need to be carefully cultivated and protected by law, otherwise you just end up with monopolies abusing their powers at the detriment of consumers, which is exactly what has happened here.

OT: This sickens me to my very core. Hiding aspects of history deemed distasteful is the worst, most morally bankrupt way to deal with this issue possible, and all because they can't be bothered to deal with any potential complaint against them. To me, this puts Apple in the same category as holocaust deniers, my opinion of that company literally couldn't get any lower after hearing this.

 

[Ugicywapih]

Speaking as a History major, stuff like this pisses me off. Yes it's tasteless and offensive to see racist jackasses flying Confederate flags around, but these games have nothing to do with that. It's when people start whitewashing history like this that I draw the line.

History defines us. It helps us understand the kind of people we are and how we got here. Ideally, history can help us avoid the pitfalls of the past; therefore, it is absolutely essential that every aspect of history be explored, no matter how offensive or reprehensible parts of it may be. We owe it to ourselves and future generations.

In my eyes, those that try to sweep such painful episodes under the rug like this are little better than the perpetrators of such acts.

Exactly this, those who cannot understand the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them and as such, media that provides an accurate account of historical events, especially in an engaging manner that facilitates education, should be offered exceptional protection rather than discriminated against, especially if said works are pertinent to current issues such as racial prejudice.

Also, as it's been pointed out, it's a special kind of hypocrisy, that drives people to uniformly cry foul over the Confederates while simultaneously praising Revolutionary War's America - both were largely motivated by a conflict between a central power growing disillusioned with slavery and a powerful minority economically dependent on slave workforce, with additional themes of excessive taxation and personal freedom, with both sides pushing the issues convenient to them into the limelight in their propaganda. The main diffrence was the (suicidal) involvement of France if you get down to it, not that they're getting a lot of credit for it these days either.

I guess that just goes to show history's written by the guys named Victor.

Or something.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Good lord. Why?

I get the issue with the confederate flag, but as people have mentioned, this is a historical game. Apple's take down notice doesn't even make that much sense either: "We are writing to notify you that your app has been removed from the App Store because it includes images of the confederate flag used in offensive and mean-spirited ways", yet they've removed every single civil war game on the app store. I could see some justification if they were picking through these games to see which one are using it in mean-spirited ways, but it seems they cut it off at "We are writing to notify you that your app has been removed from the App Store because it includes images of the confederate flag"

 

[FEichinger]

Individuals in the US are free to have their flags and wave it on their porches, even start making and selling their own flags since now they can't buy them at walmart and the like. Seems to me like they are defending a symbol for all the wrong reasons and can't even imagine how anyone might be offended by that flag when in their minds its all well and good, never bother to look at the other side of things. Guess that's what happens when your side has never been the target of so much discrimination for so long.

Oh, please. What this is, is bullying. "You're legally free to do what you want, but if you do we'll throw a tantrum until you stop!" No, I don't have a hard time seeing how someone could be offended by the flag. I do have a hard time seeing why offence should somehow be relevant regarding a flag that holds significant historical value. Be that as a reminder of the Civil War, or as a reminder of the KKK's atrocities. Or even as a reminder of the fact that the Democrats are now fighting so valiantly to remove their rebellious parts of history from the records.

There is fundamentally no distinction anymore between an omnipresent public outrage mob imposing censorship and the government doing so. Frankly, I'd argue the former is worse, because the government is at least somewhat legally bound not to ruin someone's life on a whim.

 

[Xan Krieger]

Speaking as a History major, stuff like this pisses me off. Yes it's tasteless and offensive to see racist jackasses flying Confederate flags around,[footnote]Though I won't force them to take them down from private property. They have a First Amendment right to broadcast to the world that they're assholes if they want.[/footnote] but these games have nothing to do with that. It's when people start whitewashing history like this that I draw the line.

History defines us. It helps us understand the kind of people we are and how we got here. Ideally, history can help us avoid the pitfalls of the past; therefore, it is absolutely essential that every aspect of history be explored, no matter how offensive or reprehensible parts of it may be. We owe it to ourselves and future generations.

In my eyes, those that try to sweep such painful episodes under the rug like this are little better than the perpetrators of such acts.

What about those of us who fly that flag who aren't racist? I think most people who fly the flag aren't racist, they just love the south because it beats the crap out of living up north.

 

[Something Amyss]

Man, the tone of this forum has changed. People used to be all "if you don't like Apple's policies, don't buy from them."

It would be one thing to not accept new apps that use the Confederate flag, but this is borderline censorship, especially if the examples are used in a historical context.

Man, I don't know what to tell you. Apple has set content restrictions on its store since they had a store.

People should be allowed, as free citizen, to fly whatever flag they want.
Nazi, Rainbow, Confederate, Christian Flag, etc.

They should be allowed to fly any flag they want. They are not allowed, however, to require Apple to provide them a venue.

They have the right to do it and I do think that confederate flag lovers are all racists, but the context is of the utmost importance. We shouldn't just suspend critical thinking and act like zombies because something is offensive in certain scenarios.

This is Apple. That's exactly what they do.

This stuff is scary, how can you NOT have the confederate flag in a civil war game?!

The popularity of this flag has little to do with its wartime use, given that the flag in question was not used as-is by the Confederacy. The flag in question is one that was used by one Virginian army or some such, and resurrected by the KKK and Dixiecrats in opposition to slavery. The version that would be more historically accurate, for the record, is the "White Man's Field." Let's see people use that.

Or, you know, you could go with the Stars and Bars.

I want everyone who jumps to calling for things like burning the flag to carefully consider that. Banning historic symbolism is not something you just do because you feel like it.

Fortunately, that has nothing to do with this story. Even if you support flag burning, that doesn't mean Apple is required to host a flag burning app.

But really, who specifically is calling for an outright ban on the Confederate flag?

 

[WarpedLord]

This is over the line.

I think we need to take the confed's flags down from federal/government building and burn them...BUT!

Having one in a HISTORICALLY BASED GAME is a completely different story.

People should be allowed, as free citizen, to fly whatever flag they want.
Nazi, Rainbow, Confederate, Christian Flag, etc.

It's when they're flown on PUBLIC property that piss me off.

I was going to post something intelligent, but then you went ahead and said everything I was thinking.

Damn you and your reason and logic!

 

[Something Amyss]

Privately owned company enacts policy=MURICA!

Having just done a forum search on Apple's policies (Seriously, does this site only search back to 2013?), it seems the only times this isn't an issue is when something racism or Nazi related comes up. Then it's censorship. Kind of makes you wonder.

you'd still have to admit that merely protecting your fee fees is not worth the loss of eliminating games using the flag in a historical context... right?

Weird, it looks like the ones having their "fee fees" hurt here are the "Confederate" flag lovers and the usual people who scream censorship only when it suits them.

Stupid, but Apple has set a precedent in being stupid and doing everything possible toavoid stepping on a twig, so I can't really say I'm surprised nor disappointed. Hopefully this hasn't effected any other game retailers. Any word on Google Play or Microsoft's app storefront doing anything similarly idiotic?

Are you kidding? Apple's policies have historically routinely brought on shitstorms.

Historical textbooks for school in particular are more stuck on stuff like whether or not they should include Thomas Jefferson, the third president of the United States who managed the Lousiana Purchase and led us into our first war as an established nation [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html], or really just about anything else that favours a conservative-revisionist view of history. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/09/12/proposed-texas-textbooks-are-inaccurate-biased-and-politicized-new-report-finds/] Since history textbooks in the US are having a hard time covering that slavery with any depth, I doubt they're going to do something like remove confederate imagery from textbooks.

I'd also point out that Texas wanted Moses in their history books. A guy even Jewish scholars don't necessarily accept as a factual historical figure. They're ejecting Founding Fathers they find too liberal, but want to include their Bible fanfic as historical fact pertaining to the genesis of the United States.

Also, the history books angle is a slippery slope argument and should be treated both as one and as an appeal to emotion, because it is. Going from not selling games in Apple's store to not allowing it in history books is on par with saying that people will want to marry trees if gays are allowed to marriage.

Speaking of which, it's been over a decade since Mass allowed gay marriage, and I haven't been invited to so much as a civil arborist ceremony.

the confederate flag is not inherently racist or pro-slavery, as slavery was only PART of why the south wanted to secede from the rest of the union.

The KKK and Dixiecrats opposing integration, however, is the total reason it's part of modern consciousness.

Though seriously, it'd be funny seeing people fly the "White Man's Field" and argue it was about Southern pride and not racism.