gigastar said:
Someone bring me up to speed here, whats all this moral outrage about flags now?
And why is it still not directed at the lack of gun control?
AzrealMaximillion said:
Methinks Historical games should be left alone in this case. Lest we start acting like Germany with the Nazi Flag in video games.
Thats the Swastika youre thinking about.
What he's saying is that Germany bans the Swatstika in all contexts even going so far as to want Indiana Jones games censored, and the US seems to be heading in a similar direction.
The long and the short of the situation is 9 black people were killed in a church. The likely suspect is a guy named Dylann Road who is a kid who was a vocal white supremacist and did things like wear confederate symbology, burn the US flag, and write racist manifestos on his website. Liberals being liberals they decided that this was a great time to run around pressuring everyone to stop flying the confederate flag regardless of it's context. The confederate flag has a lot of symbolism behind it for different people, but since one of the issues of The American Civil War was slavery liberals have latched onto that side of things exclusively, acting like that is what it stands for and nothing else. The campaign has involved political pressure on states, and attacks against landmarks commemorating the war and even grave sites of slain Confederate veterans with demands that the stones be removed and replaced with something more politically correct if they have Confederate markings.
On the media front, we have had witch hunts against Confederate flag merchandise due to left wing pressure, and rather than fighting for free speech we now have companies like Warner Brothers editing shows like "The Dukes Of Hazzard" to remove all the confederate flags (like the ones on the car) and bleep out any mention of "The General Lee" which is the name of that particular souped up car. Allegedly these changes will be made to where the show is still shown in syndication and all DVD collections of the show from now on will have the edits.
Basically it's a giant power grab/political move using a tragic set of events as the catalyst. Poor education on The American Civil War is also a factor.
To put things into perspective The Civil War was nasty, and even as they did terrible things to The South, The North wasn't exactly disrespectful to the flag or the overall cause it represented. General Robert E. Lee was treated with great respect even after the end of the war, as were a number of other confederate leaders which is why their names are all over monuments, buildings, etc. The war was fought largely over economics, slavery is the reason listed by the winners to justify their actions, but it really wasn't the focus of the war, especially seeing as slavery likely would have ended without the war due to the way politics were moving anyway. The war was largely about how The South produced most of the raw materials used for manufacturing, and wanted top dollar for it's goods, The North which was far more industrialized was unhappy with what they had to pay and the amount of resources they were getting, and it was also holding back international trade due to the US not being able to produce at the rate the government wanted to see. For sure The South wasn't entirely blameless in the equasion, because the people down there would rather let their stuff rot unsold (and did) than lower the prices. A lot can be said back and forth but the bottom line is that like most of history it was not a black and white conflict, and that's why the symbolism has continued on throughout the years. The Confederate Flag oftentimes means something entirely different to people in The South from people in The North nowadays, who don't even bother to stop and think that there are reasons why even after victory the North hadn't eradicated it.
As a general rule I don't object to a dialogue on the subject, as believe it or not I'm not a fan (I live the first 39 years of my life in Connecticut, while I have live in Arizona for a few months now I'm about as Yankee as you can get). I for example think the states should consider whether they want to fly that flag in government buildings, not because of the slavery association, but because you know... it's a sign of rebellion against the union your supposed to now be a part of. That said it's something that should be up to the people of the states to decide themselves. When it comes to historical context, in my opinion people today should not be defiling graves and monuments placed long before they were born, especially when it comes to grave sites. If someone died a Confederate Soldier and decided they wanted to be remembered that way, you have no right to defile their grave stone.
Sadly we haven't seen any effective counter-rallies, which is why we see businesses overreacting, but I also think it's pretty bloody ridiculous to say remove confederate symbolism from historical war games and ban games that don't do so. Or to retroactively censor old TV shows. "The Dukes Of Hazzard" for example was about a couple of Good 'Ol Boys with a souped up car (one was an Ex-Marine, the other a former NASCAR driver) largely running afoul of the local law and power base, largely involving schemes by a local politician called "Boss Hogg" to get ahold of their family land which is quite valuable. In the scope of the show the symbolism is sort of that they are rebelling against the corrupt authorities down there, since they are almost constantly getting into car chases with the police and such. You can't even argue the guys flying the Confederate flag are racist since one of the recurring gags is how the Sheriff in the next county is a black dude who doesn't like taking any crap from people over the Hazzard county line, but at least has some mutual respect for the Duke Boys, so a lot of the times they wind up fleeing over the line and have that guy deal with whatever group of Rednecks they riled up, or back off Hazzard county law enforcement. It's a weird show, that was one of a kind and hasn't aged all that well, but it achieved a cult fan base (I used to really like it when I was a kid). That's right up there with Germany getting upset because the Nazis chasing Indiana Jones fly a Swatstika, contextually there is nothing offensive about it. Yet according to some things I was reading yesterday, not only is Apple at it, but so is Warner Brothers. Strangely one of the few hold outs is the guy who played Cooter in "Dukes Of Hazzard" (one of their buddies in the show) who opened a chain of real world stores based off of his fame that actually became fairly successful, he's made a point about how all of his "Cooter's General Store" locations will continue to sell all of the same southern and fan-related merchandise they always have, including displays of the Confederate flag, though I guess the only reason he was even asked was because of the show, which due to it's cult classic status has been getting some attention for this, although I notice the media hasn't wanted to say that much about it because I like to think even liberals realize editing "The Dukes Of Hazzard" is kind of stupid.
That said I imagine from now on all of the game producers who want to deal with The Civil War will have to replace the Confederates with renegade Circus Clowns and actual history will probably soon follow to protect people's minds and avoid offending anyone. In a generation or three the US will be an even bigger laughing stock when the indoctrinated go around talking about "The Great Clown Wars" and the new sign of racism will be wearing a giant red honkable nose.
