Archbishop Claims SCOTUS Decision Is "Poisoning" The Future

[Treblaine]

Wheres the button where i can "report" the author for making offensive statements against Catholics?

Thats seriously just getting offensive

#1 It is a fact

#2 It is relevant

#3 The church is not religion. It is not the people. It is entirely possible that an organisation can be corrupt, yet the communion still be good people with good values.

1.) It's an opinion

2.) It's irrelevant

3.) It's offensive to not just Catholics but anyone with a sense of journalistic integrity, of which the author clearly does not have.

I hit the report button on this offensive topic and I encourage everyone to do the same. The Escapist should do the right thing and remove or edit this news story to get rid of the offending content.

I mean by "It's a Fact" as in the sexual abuse of children and the decades of cover-up on a massive scale. THAT is a fact.

It is relevant as it is to do with the origination's true beliefs towards protecting children versus protecting their ideals. The church did not get pro-active on this till EVERYTHING was revealed and they had no choice, even then they are not doing enough. Chaput has to answer to and address the decades of abuse before he can speak as an agent of that Church as this cannot jsut go away.

PS: You can criticise a Church Organisation without criticising the faith. It's just a group of men, the Catholic Church is not God. When it decided to absolve and covet these crimes they went against their own principals of sin: confession. Not just to God, but everyone. To take responsibility in society, the Church should have been told these perpetrators to confess everything to the police or have their immortal soul dammed for eternity!

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

I think the most depressing and sickening thing in this thread is that the people being offended are more annoyed that this FACT is being stated rather than that it actually fucking happened.

Wouldn't it be wiser to be more angry that this happened and thus the church needs reform before it can discuss what is damaging children (especially since it is denying all fact and reason to point at something else while children are literally raped in its buildings?)

Seriously, this whole attitude of being mad because he stated a fact is jarring...

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

snip

Btw, the documentation says ALL priests were instructed to help with the coverup. So unless this guy only joined in the last couple years, he is PERSONALLY responsible for helping harbor, abetting, and relocating child molesters.

Any other excuses to hide behind? The memo says ALL, not some, not few, not maybe, not kinda, not possibly, ALL.

So yes, it is entirely relevant to bring it up with this bishop, especially with this bishop since he is so blithely accusing a harmless media of the kind of harm that his organization had a hand in covering up and he was Personally ordered to help cover up.

EDIT: Journalistic integrity is speaking the truth despite how unpleasant it is. Which is what he did. Integrity means honesty, not pretending something didn't happen because it upsets you or is an unpleasant truth.

 

[Treblaine]

It is a blight on The Escapist's record that this story was allowed to be presented like this, and an even greater blight that The Escapist moderation staff will warn/probate/suspend you if you call them out on it, on the grounds that we can't insult The Escapist. Well I say fuck that. They deserve to be called out on it consequences be damned.

If you don't like the content of The Escapist then why are you here? You've only been here about a month and you're disagreeing with veteran members and official contributors on what should and should not be on here.

Sorry, but Religious Organisations don't get a free pass here.

This is not "Catholics under attack", this is the ORGANISATION held to account.

PS: Germany was utterly gutted with a completely new government, constitution and establishment, to answer for it's crimes that Germany can remain a proud country - separation between the governments that run a country and the country itself. Like separation between Catholicism and the Catholic Church.

How has the Catholic Church utterly reformed itself to answer for this? Can any Catholic in good conscience remain with the church as it is?

They haven't, the current Pope has been instrumental in the active process of covering it up, by all rights he should resign to save the face of his organisation.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

It is a blight on The Escapist's record that this story was allowed to be presented like this, and an even greater blight that The Escapist moderation staff will warn/probate/suspend you if you call them out on it, on the grounds that we can't insult The Escapist. Well I say fuck that. They deserve to be called out on it consequences be damned.

If you don't like the content of The Escapist then why are you here? You've only been here about a month and you're disagreeing with veteran members and official contributors on what should and should not be on here.

Sorry, but Religious Organisations don't get a free pass here.

This is not "Catholics under attack", this is the ORGANISATION held to account.

PS: Germany was utterly gutted with a completely new government, constitution and establishment, to answer for it's crimes that Germany can remain a proud country - separation between the governments that run a country and the country itself. Like separation between Catholicism and the Catholic Church.

How has the Catholic Church utterly reformed itself to answer for this? Can any Catholic in good conscience remain with the church as it is?

They haven't, the current Pope has been instrumental in the active process of covering it up, by all rights he should resign to save the face of his organisation.

Oh look!
Facts!

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2008/07_08/2008_07_01_CatholicNewsAgency_ArchdioceseOf.htm

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/archdiocese_of_denver_settles_majority_of_sex_abuse_claims_for_5.5_million/

Apparently Chaput wanted to mediate child molestation claims and his Archdiocese paid 5.5 million dollars in settlements. So um, what is this I hear about Journalistic Integrity? Vansau, rock on you crazy diamond.

EDIT: Do note that he didn't seek any actual justice, just hushing it up with money. No mention of punishment for the perpetrators, despite the fact they belong behind bars, period.

 

[let's rock]

I have a lot of M rated games, and haven't gone on a chainsaw killing massacare yet (But if that fucking homophobe on my street makes fun of me for being pansexual one more time that might change...) Honestly though, will violent video game haters ever shut up? We gamers should just tune them out and get back to indiscriminatly killing foriners in every U.S. military game ever

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

I'm willing to bet that Catholic priests have <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases>done more harm to the youth of the world than videogames have

That was completely unnecessary.

The Archbishop has no idea what he is talking about here, obviously, but I'm sure vansau is perfectly aware that he is strawmanning. Ignorance is excusable (though really annoying). Poor debate tactics are not.

I am in 100% agreement here. That was poor journalism. I expect better from The Escapist, and frankly I feel that it reflects poorly on this fine publication when things like this are printed.

Seems simply like enforcing the 'people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' idea to me.

Would you expect the same kind of snarky closing statement in a quality, printed newspaper?

No I wouldn't. I'd expect the newspaper to build its entire article around presenting an extremely one-sided and clearly editorialised view of the subject. I don't know what papers you read but in my experience print media is so transparently biased these days, so I wouldn't hold it up as some kind of paragon to which the Escapist should aspire.

 

[Mumorpuger]

I'm willing to bet that Catholic priests have <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases>done more harm to the youth of the world than videogames have

That was completely unnecessary.

The Archbishop has no idea what he is talking about here, obviously, but I'm sure vansau is perfectly aware that he is strawmanning. Ignorance is excusable (though really annoying). Poor debate tactics are not.

I am in 100% agreement here. That was poor journalism. I expect better from The Escapist, and frankly I feel that it reflects poorly on this fine publication when things like this are printed.

Seems simply like enforcing the 'people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' idea to me.

Would you expect the same kind of snarky closing statement in a quality, printed newspaper?

No I wouldn't. I'd expect the newspaper to build its entire article around presenting an extremely one-sided and clearly editorialised view of the subject. I don't know what papers you read but in my experience print media is so transparently biased these days, so I wouldn't hold it up as some kind of paragon to which the Escapist should aspire.

You're ignoring my point entirely. I said quality newspaper, and you're turning the conversation around to your opinion and observations of printed media you have experience with.

I'm willing to bet that Catholic priests have <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases>done more harm to the youth of the world than videogames have

That was completely unnecessary.

The Archbishop has no idea what he is talking about here, obviously, but I'm sure vansau is perfectly aware that he is strawmanning. Ignorance is excusable (though really annoying). Poor debate tactics are not.

I am in 100% agreement here. That was poor journalism. I expect better from The Escapist, and frankly I feel that it reflects poorly on this fine publication when things like this are printed.

Seems simply like enforcing the 'people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' idea to me.

Would you expect the same kind of snarky closing statement in a quality, printed newspaper?

On behave of the youth culture I would like to ask; "What's a newspaper?"

Ha ha. Just kidding. Seriously though, The Escapist isn't a newspaper, and I thank God for that. Also, yes its a snarky statement, but it is also true.

"Members of a religious order in glass churches shouldn't throw stones at depictions of violence, when we all can see other members of their order touching little boys through the glass."

Now that's a snarky statement.

P.S. The closing statement he made is way more tame than what Fox News(one of the most viewed news shows in the U.S.) makes at the start of their show,(Example: Bulletstorm promotes rape.), and is not far off from what The Archbishop is saying except it's based off of facts.

Okay, good point. EM is a magazine so I should have used that word instead. I suppose I used newspaper in this regard because this issue being a news article, etc.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Seems simply like enforcing the 'people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' idea to me.

Would you expect the same kind of snarky closing statement in a quality, printed newspaper?

No I wouldn't. I'd expect the newspaper to build its entire article around presenting an extremely one-sided and clearly editorialised view of the subject. I don't know what papers you read but in my experience print media is so transparently biased these days, so I wouldn't hold it up as some kind of paragon to which the Escapist should aspire.

You're ignoring my point entirely. I said quality newspaper, and you're turning the conversation around to your opinion and observations of printed media you have experience with.

I'm sorry, I should have forewarned you that I'm so cynical that I don't trust ANY media to be free of bias, so I simply select my news from those with a bias that I find agreeable. Sure, we could have a debate about 'journalistic integrity' but honestly, this site is not masquerading as some kind of objective reporting service. You only have to read a few of the daily reports to realise how heavily opinionated they are.

I've thought of a better analogy for you: consider that the Escapist is not like a newspaper, but a magazine. Imagine for a moment it was a fishing magazine. Imagine an authority figure chimes in and says that fishing is corrupting our children. I don't think it would be unwarranted for the coverage in that magazine to be biased against said authority figure.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

snip

Btw, the documentation

Two things:

1.) "The documentation" is a phrase which couldn't be more vague a way to assert your point

2.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsVAsN3q-Uo

he is PERSONALLY responsible for helping harbor, abetting, and relocating child molesters.

You. are. a. bigot.

So yes, it is entirely relevant to bring it up with this bishop

I hope The Escapist staff is reading these comments and seeing what this "journalist" vansau has started with his snide remarks.

EDIT: Journalistic integrity is speaking the truth despite how unpleasant it is.

Your version of truth is really subjective.

I provided proof in an above post. You've provided nothing but personal attacks. Yes, I do hope that the mods are watching.

Btw, it doesn't have to do with video games. It has to do with harming minors, which is the claim that the Archbishop is making. That is the correlation between what Vansau posted and the Archbishop.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/aug/17/religion.childprotection

Also, the Archbishop Chaput DIRECTLY kept the priests from legal trouble and settled the matter for a sum of 5.5 million dollars. That is harboring and abetting a criminal who preys on children.

You. Are. Willfully. Ignoring. Facts.

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2008/07_08/2008_07_01_CatholicNewsAgency_ArchdioceseOf.htm

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/archdiocese_of_denver_settles_majority_of_sex_abuse_claims_for_5.5_million/

Care to concede now? He was personally involved with keeping things under wraps instead of bringing child molesters to justice. I repeat the word again... PERSONALLY...

 

[slacker09]

Seeing as how Chaput was a pretty adamant foe of games back then, it's not surprising that he still hates them. That said, I'm willing to bet that Catholic priests have <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases>done more harm to the youth of the world than videogames have, though this wasn't something that the Archbishop addressed in his article.

Damn, that's cold. I mean seriously, OW!

But on topic, it shouldn't be real surprising given this mans history that he opposes it.

"Members of a religious order in glass churches shouldn't throw stones at depictions of violence, when we all can see other members of their order touching little boys through the glass."

If they want to attack video games, I think thats fine, but first own up to what they have done.

Also, "Damn, that's cold." Tell that to the kids. Oh wait, you can't because their deaf.

P.S. slacker09. I wish you no bad will, unless you are a molester, or something just as bad. All I'm saying is who really has been damaging these kids? Though, yes that was a DEEP cut, but not uncalled for.

Actually I agree with whats said in the article, I was just not expecting it so I cringed a bit. I thought that was a great statement, but looking back, a better response from me would have been "Burn!" or "Oh Snap!"

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Btw, it doesn't have to do with video games.

Exactly. Nothing to do with video games. You're off topic. I accept your apology.

Also, the Archbishop Chaput DIRECTLY kept the priests from legal trouble and settled the matter for a sum of 5.5 million dollars. That is harboring and abetting a criminal who preys on children.

Don't know what that has to do with SCOTUS. I mean, I hate repeating myself, but stop making me have to. What you're saying is guilt by association. According to your logic: Catholic = Pedophilia supporters. It doesn't hold water. It's just ridiculous.

You. Are. Willfully. Ignoring. Facts.

Do we know that the Vatican instructed every priest, every bishop? This so-called "journalist" vansau didn't even bring it up to inform. He brought it up to provide a one-sided argument that Catholic = bad. It's bigoted, and it's despicable that The Escapist would allow it.

Yeah, I get your point. You hate Catholics. Grr, so edgy, fight the power, whatever. It still doesn't have a place on a news site. Then again, The Escapist seems to be a news site only some of the time, and other times a one-sided opinion piece like Fox News.

1. Article has to do with the Bishop's reaction thus his credibility can and will be called into question.

2. Chaput directly oversaw the mediation to keep things hushed up with a settlement of 5.5 millions dollars to child rape victims in his diocese. He also stated that when the abuse went on, they were more concerned with protecting White's privacy than actually solving the matter. Then he goes on to say that things have changed.

3. You've done nothing but use personal attacks this entire discussion while I've presented fact after fact after fact.

4. I don't hate Catholics. I hate willful ignorance and hypocrisy, which the Archbishop is showing in spades.

5. It isn't bigoted to bring up facts, especially pertinent ones. So keep on with the accusations and gestures of martyrdom.

Try actually reading the evidence... Plenty has been presented. Also, try reading the article again since you didn't realize that the article was about the Bishop and his complaints, not the video games themselves.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Archbishop, I have the deepest respect for you as a leader in the Catholic Church, but don't ask me to give up my copy of Saints Row 2! I've given up to much already!!!


But anyways, back on topic, at least this guy has the respect to say that he doesn't believe all games are bad, that's still a step up from, "THE SECOND YOUR CHILD PICKS UP A CONTROLLER! YOU'RE GUARANTEEING HIS FUTURE AS A MURDERER!"


Lastly, no offense to whoever wrote the article but as a Catholic, I'm offended by that whole "Catholic priests have done more to harm the youth of this world" comment. In truth the amount of Pedophiles that serve(d) as priests are about the same number as any other Religion, Catholic priests don't have a "higher" chance of molesting children as much as, say, a Vicar or a Minister or whomever leads you in worship.

Catholic priests HAVE done more harm to children than video games. That's the problem. When other denominations come out decrying video games as murder trainers, we will poke them in the head with their hypocrisy too.

Care to point out where exactly he is false in stating that Catholic priests have done more harm to the youth than video games?

 

[Jian-Li]

Oh please. The teens who committed the Columbine massacre went to the school to shoot up the place immediately after they finished bowling and I've never heard anyone condemn bowling as the reason they committed the massacre.
Right-wingers like him are just making up non-existent connections to whatever bad thing happens so they can have things they don't like censored.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Archbishop, I have the deepest respect for you as a leader in the Catholic Church, but don't ask me to give up my copy of Saints Row 2! I've given up to much already!!!


But anyways, back on topic, at least this guy has the respect to say that he doesn't believe all games are bad, that's still a step up from, "THE SECOND YOUR CHILD PICKS UP A CONTROLLER! YOU'RE GUARANTEEING HIS FUTURE AS A MURDERER!"


Lastly, no offense to whoever wrote the article but as a Catholic, I'm offended by that whole "Catholic priests have done more to harm the youth of this world" comment. In truth the amount of Pedophiles that serve(d) as priests are about the same number as any other Religion, Catholic priests don't have a "higher" chance of molesting children as much as, say, a Vicar or a Minister or whomever leads you in worship.

Catholic priests HAVE done more harm to children than video games. That's the problem. When other denominations come out decrying video games as murder trainers, we will poke them in the head with their hypocrisy too.

Care to point out where exactly he is false in stating that Catholic priests have done more harm to the youth than video games?

No offense but... Did you even read my post?

I NEVER said that videogames do more harm to kids then catholic priests, I even admitted to playing Saints Row 2.

I said that Catholic priests don't molest kids more then any other public official with an access to children, I never once claimed that Videogames do more harm to kids then Catholic Priests.

You weren't paying attention. I am not saying nor is Vansau saying that Catholics have a higher pedophiliac chance. What we are saying is that Catholic clergy have caused more harm than video games. That's it. Full stop. No statement of them being super pedos. Just cut and dry.

That is all and that is why the jab was relevant.