Are Women Tournaments Sexist?

[snekadid]

I don't begrudge anyone their little pleasure of a women-only tournament.

Any type of segregation goes, even down to religion and skin color, as long as it's only unimportant stuff like sports and tournaments like this one.

Let them have their own fun if X want to be seperate from the rest.

Okay . Let's assume what you say is true . Let's start holding men only turnaments . Suddendly people will be crying sexism .

If the next fightin game tournament or whatever. Decide . Hey this is going to be an all male tornament . Shit will go down . And the worst part is . Most likely , nothing would have changed from the tournament due to the low/non-existant participation of women .

OT: this is just silly . This is basically saying , "we cannot beat guys , so will make our own tournament! With hookers ! And blackjack!". NO , what you should do is play against the guys and come out in first place . THAT's how you get takken. Seriously.

This is basically the very simple and easy test you can do with anything.

Just ask yourself, if it was the other way around, would there be an outcry?

Caucasian American college fund?

The only reason it's even viable in a professional sport environment is because there's an equivalent and there would be far more problems with a joined league due to social moors about violence against women. Which is another odd scenario which was brought up with the uppercut video where because a man was attacked by a woman and he defended himself many thought it was wrong but would of had no problem if he had hit her and then she had defended herself. Hypocrisy is a poison.

 

[blackrave]

Because trash talking is just one of the ways you can win.
Anything that ensures that your opponent switches off his/her brain is acceptable.

Wait, what?
Depends on the competition and how well you know the other people, but surely there's such a thing as sportmanship? Or, you know, not being a douchebag?
For example, if I know that the other player was abused as a child, or is going through a messy divorce or has a bad phobia of something, would rubbing that into their noses be acceptable to get a slight advantage?

Because I don't think I'd like to be a part of a community where that's considered okay.

Meh, sportsmanship is overrated.
If you can achieve victory without playing dirty, good.
But if you want to win against stronger opponent don't dismiss trash talk.

P.S. "Sprtsmanship" is also sexist word, why not "sportspersonship" ?

 

[Dr. Doomsduck]

Not that the term male sexism is very accurate, seeing as how white men in particular are still given more chances in society when it comes to things like job opportunity.

Maybe because men are vastly more likely to take on extreme/risky jobs?

When was the last time you heard of a mining company or an oil rig with mostly female employees?

plenty of women in Africa work in the gold mining business and there are a lot girls in the U.S. Army. In Isreal, every woman serves a year in the military.

So tell me again how all those male CEO's have dangerous jobs...

 

[Rednog]

Joke answer:maybe they do that protect the women from getting bullied/raped/sexual harassed by the male players? The male team could try to rape the female team before the match?

real answer:But in the end I think they do this because in real life men and women have to play separated from each other so they do the same in e sports

I fail to see how this is a joke...

or a real answer.

Its a joke because no one would rape a another team for a advantage

Joke answer:maybe they do that protect the women from getting bullied/raped/sexual harassed by the male players?

Ummm...You do know that the bullying and sexual harassment part DOES happen, right?

Kind of tasteless "joke" answer there.

true it does but most women can handle/ignore it and prove that trashtalking doesn't make you a better player it just shows how shitty of a player you are.

(the internet is full of tasteless jokes)

And people wonder why we want a league of our own...

Listen sweetheart, I'm gonna go and guess that you're a white male, ranging between the age of 13 - 30 and that you've never even taken a moment to envision the horror that is rape, the dehumanisation of sexual harrasment and the ongoing rape culture that still exists everywhere on earth.

Basically, as long as women are accused of provoking rape in courts, there will never be a funny sexual harrasment joke. As long as our gender gives us a negative view on society, you don't get to make those jokes. Speaking of Rape: there was an article here a couple of months ago called the R-word. I suggest you read that, then picture it happening to you and THEN think about that thick skin people are supposed to have.

Just, drill that in your thick skull mkay, and realize that it really isn't up to you to decide what's okay when you're not the one duped by it.

No.
You might find something offensive, but you in no way shape or form get to censor anyone because they do not agree with your opinion. People make jokes about dead babies, the holocaust, 9/11 and various other horrific things; why are you not shutting down everyone who makes jokes like that, why are you singling out rape jokes? Oh because it's offensive to you.
How dare you tell people what they can or cannot say.
Oh and nice job ladling all that hypocrisy:
Call out negative view of gender in society...yet calls out the other poster for being a male and stereotypes.
Oh the plight of women, those evil men will never know the atrocities of rape, read this article and maybe then your small male brain will get even the faintest idea...article was written by a man.
Oh and I love the condescending attitude of calling a poster sweetheart, honey, etc. Because they're idiotic man children for disagreeing with them, so you're automatically allowed to act pejoratively towards them, mkay.

Patric Oneal best sums up the world of comedy and the offense people take:

 

[aba1]

The way I see it is that the women shouldn't have to change this is one of those times where the men need to change to be more inviting to women.

 

[Lieju]

Because trash talking is just one of the ways you can win.
Anything that ensures that your opponent switches off his/her brain is acceptable.

Wait, what?
Depends on the competition and how well you know the other people, but surely there's such a thing as sportmanship? Or, you know, not being a douchebag?
For example, if I know that the other player was abused as a child, or is going through a messy divorce or has a bad phobia of something, would rubbing that into their noses be acceptable to get a slight advantage?

Because I don't think I'd like to be a part of a community where that's considered okay.

Meh, sportsmanship is overrated.
If you can achieve victory without playing dirty, good.
But if you want to win against stronger opponent don't dismiss trash talk.

If all you want is victory, why not just cheat? Or beat up your opponents (or hire others to do that), sabotage their equipment, get them drunk?

If all you want is victory without thought to the consequences or the feelings of others, why stop at mental violence?

If you want to play games where your willingness to abuse others is more important than actual skill, fine. But I do not want to be a part of a community like that, and I'm not alone in that.

P.S. "Sprtsmanship" is also sexist word, why not "sportspersonship" ?

Thus, I used the term 'not being a douchebag'.
Your observation of the sexism inherent in language is noted, though.

 

[Dr. Doomsduck]

Joke answer:maybe they do that protect the women from getting bullied/raped/sexual harassed by the male players? The male team could try to rape the female team before the match?

real answer:But in the end I think they do this because in real life men and women have to play separated from each other so they do the same in e sports

I fail to see how this is a joke...

or a real answer.

Its a joke because no one would rape a another team for a advantage

Joke answer:maybe they do that protect the women from getting bullied/raped/sexual harassed by the male players?

Ummm...You do know that the bullying and sexual harassment part DOES happen, right?

Kind of tasteless "joke" answer there.

true it does but most women can handle/ignore it and prove that trashtalking doesn't make you a better player it just shows how shitty of a player you are.

(the internet is full of tasteless jokes)

And people wonder why we want a league of our own...

Listen sweetheart, I'm gonna go and guess that you're a white male, ranging between the age of 13 - 30 and that you've never even taken a moment to envision the horror that is rape, the dehumanisation of sexual harrasment and the ongoing rape culture that still exists everywhere on earth.

Basically, as long as women are accused of provoking rape in courts, there will never be a funny sexual harrasment joke. As long as our gender gives us a negative view on society, you don't get to make those jokes. Speaking of Rape: there was an article here a couple of months ago called the R-word. I suggest you read that, then picture it happening to you and THEN think about that thick skin people are supposed to have.

Just, drill that in your thick skull mkay, and realize that it really isn't up to you to decide what's okay when you're not the one duped by it.

No.
You might find something offensive, but you in no way shape or form get to censor anyone because they do not agree with your opinion. People make jokes about dead babies, the holocaust, 9/11 and various other horrific things; why are you not shutting down everyone who makes jokes like that, why are you singling out rape jokes? Oh because it's offensive to you.
How dare you tell people what they can or cannot say.
Oh and nice job ladling all that hypocrisy:
Call out negative view of gender in society...yet calls out the other poster for being a male and stereotypes.
Oh the plight of women, those evil men will never know the atrocities of rape, read this article and maybe then your small male brain will get even the faintest idea...article was written by a man.
Oh and I love the condescending attitude of calling a poster sweetheart, honey, etc. Because they're idiotic man children for disagreeing with them, so you're automatically allowed to act pejoratively towards them, mkay.

Patric Oneal best sums up the world of comedy and the offense people take:

Holy shit, you really missed my points by miles didn't you?

Just because people make jokes about stuff like 9/11 or dead babies does not make it okay to do so. I'm not just saying it's offensive to me, I'm saying that by making those jokes you are enforcing negative stereotypes that will influence our behavior towards minorities.

I don't blame ANYONE for being born a male, they can't help it. Just like I can't help being born white, but the way we chose to handle our view of other people is something we can definitely work on. Because equality doesn't exist yet. There are so many stigma's on so many layers of society.

Yes, I do call people baby, sweetheart, honey. I do that to people who think rape jokes are funny, I do that to people who don't take me as a person seriously. look closer, and you'll see that I agree with several men here.

I know the R-word is written by a male, and that's why it makes such an impact on other men. I can point you to other articles written by women, but then there will always be douchebags who say that she was probably wearing a short skirt, or that she was flirting with the guy. I also recall that the R-word was definitely not an advocate for your rude-ass attitude towards other people's sensibilities.

Nowhere in my post did I say that male victims of rape don't deserve to be helped, to be respected and to have a safe place where they can admit what happened to them. In fact, I think it might be even harder for them to admit that they were raped then it is for a woman, because of macho-fuckfaces who think they can make jokes about EVERYTHING.

But, hey, I guess you can't convince everyone to maybe empathize with another person once in a while. If you really, really can't see the harm in asking a girl her brasize on an official tournament, then by all means move on, keep being an asshole, but don't go calling me a fucking Sarkeezian because I'm trying to have civil conversation here.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

considering how "professional" gaming tournaments are I'm not surprised. When the image of the player improves itself then MAYBE we'll bring in co-ed. Until then, stop crying sexism.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I don't get how the "videogame tournaments of pro levels, where for people to participate there needs to be a welcoming atmosphere" thing applies here.



If women are participating, they've long entered the "boys club" and they've stayed there long enough to get good so they don't need to be welcomed-to any more, they're already in.



Are they saying women tournaments are somehow different than co-ed ones? In which way if so? All this seems to do is allow lesser players to feel accomplished when they're really not by creating an unique category with lower standards just for them.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

plenty of women in Africa work in the gold mining business and there are a lot girls in the U.S. Army.

So tell me again how all those male CEO's have dangerous jobs...

There are plenty of female CEO's just as there are plenty of female gold miners in Africa. How about that.

In Isreal, every woman serves a year in the military.

Every woman? EVERY woman? Do you have anything to back up this absurd claim?

 

[veloper]

I don't get how the "videogame tournaments of pro levels, where for people to participate there needs to be a welcoming atmosphere" thing applies here.

If women are participating, they've long entered the "boys club" and they've stayed there long enough to get good so they don't need to be welcomed-to any more, they're already in.

Are they saying women tournaments are somehow different than co-ed ones? In which way if so? All this seems to do is allow lesser players to feel accomplished when they're really not by creating an unique category with lower standards just for them.

What's wrong with that? We may not take such tournaments seriously, but if it makes them feel better anyway, why not?

 

[chadachada123]

Just because people make jokes about stuff like 9/11 or dead babies does not make it okay to do so. I'm not just saying it's offensive to me, I'm saying that by making those jokes you are enforcing negative stereotypes that will influence our behavior towards minorities.

You...think that dead baby jokes will influence our behavior towards minorities?

Even most 9/11 jokes I've seen do nothing to support a negative stereotype against Islam, but are just making fun of the deaths of others for shock value.

 

[Something Amyss]

Joke answer:maybe they do that protect the women from getting bullied/raped/sexual harassed by the male players?

Ummm...You do know that the bullying and sexual harassment part DOES happen, right?

Kind of tasteless "joke" answer there.

I fail to understand why women don't trash talk back
You know, talking about small penis size and overcompensation
Mentioning him being mommas boy, whiny and annoying
Stuff like that- it can't be that hard to figure out ways to insult and humiliate back.
From my experience women are excellent at emotional violence, and trash talking isn't anything more than emotional violence.

What about being sexually accosted? Guys (generally) tend to react differently to being groped by a girl. How do they give it back then?

Besides, not everyone likes to trash talk. I mean, it's even true of men, so I'm not sure why it'd be different for women.

 

[Dr. Doomsduck]

plenty of women in Africa work in the gold mining business and there are a lot girls in the U.S. Army.

So tell me again how all those male CEO's have dangerous jobs...

There are plenty of female CEO's just as there are plenty of female gold miners in Africa. How about that.

In Isreal, every woman serves a year in the military.

Every woman? EVERY woman? Do you have anything to back up this absurd claim?

http://www.your-krav-maga-expert.com/women-in-idf.html

 

[NightHawk21]

Personally I don't care if they exist. I'm not going to watch them, but if the get more females into the game then more power to them. I think it would be really interested to see though what would happen if you officially limited say the international to say men.

math not so much (you just have to be able to do some basic stuff like 'okay so blink dagger uses 75 mana, black hole 450 so I still have enough for my combo, or I don't have enough for my combo but I got 10 stick charges which will bring me back up to it'

Erm, have we both played the same DotA? At which point HP progression is outdone by adding armour, would +5% crit or + 40 damage yield better results? Would you go for "spikey" damage curve or a consistent one, albeit with a lower maximum, how would two sources of dodge/evade mesh together. Yes, calculating your mana is simple but I don't think it's the only Maths to be done.

Be fair no one really does that kind of math since those are complex algorithms the computer uses to figure out the curves, and the few people that do usually have milestone numbers where one becomes more valuable than the other (ex. I can't remember what it was for armor, but I think it was like after 2000 hp stacking armor gives more effective hp than strength or hp or something).

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

http://www.your-krav-maga-expert.com/women-in-idf.html

Cool, thanks for the link. I didn't know that.

So they are still forbidden from active combat then. Wonder why all the photos show them carrying M16's lol.

"For political reasons women's groups have tried to break down barriers but the simple fact is that physically women are not capable of doing the job men do. There was an attempt to integrate women in the Search and Rescue units but it was discovered that a great deal of physical damage was caused to them as a result of the increased effort. Even the girls who were integrated into the anti-aircraft unit suffered great physical damage during the long hikes. They suffered more than 30% more stress factors than the boys."

Ouch. I wonder what feminists will have to say about that.

 

[Dr. Doomsduck]

Just because people make jokes about stuff like 9/11 or dead babies does not make it okay to do so. I'm not just saying it's offensive to me, I'm saying that by making those jokes you are enforcing negative stereotypes that will influence our behavior towards minorities.

You...think that dead baby jokes will influence our behavior towards minorities?

Even most 9/11 jokes I've seen do nothing to support a negative stereotype against Islam, but are just making fun of the deaths of others for shock value.

I think that dead baby jokes can create a stigma that causes couples to hide their miscarriage, because they feel unsafe to speak about those problems with their friends who make dead baby jokes.

Obviously, subjects like sexist and racist jokes are a more common trigger for these problems. There are quite a few jokes about 9/11 that focus on an islam stereotype and I think that those, on a subconsious level influence how we think about the muslims.

We live in a time where we try SO hard not to feel other people's pain and those that do, they get told to toughen up. That's why those jokes are so harmful, because we're teaching ourselves not to care about anything. I think that that construct of just buckle up and swallow the pain hides the problems we have, and can hide many problems that aren't an issue yet. Nothing is solved if we keep trying to look away, if we keep telling people to deal with their own issues.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I don't get how the "videogame tournaments of pro levels, where for people to participate there needs to be a welcoming atmosphere" thing applies here.

If women are participating, they've long entered the "boys club" and they've stayed there long enough to get good so they don't need to be welcomed-to any more, they're already in.

Are they saying women tournaments are somehow different than co-ed ones? In which way if so? All this seems to do is allow lesser players to feel accomplished when they're really not by creating an unique category with lower standards just for them.

What's wrong with that? We may not take such tournaments seriously, but if it makes them feel better anyway, why not?

Umm, isn't it obvious? Tournaments aren't things whose purpose is to make people feel good. Tournaments are competitions whose purpose is to show who's the best at something. In doing those "feel good tournaments" you diminish every other one, just by merely calling it a tournament.


This is like how they give every single kid a medal in sports nowadays so that they won't feel bad, they rob the meaning out of competition for the sake of people's feelings and they rob how good those who DO deserve a medal feel.


Is it too much to ask to treat women as people and believe they don't need to be specifically tended to? Remember, this isn't a "feel good tournament" even, women can still join the co-ed ones too, this is a scrub-enabling tournament which will actually keep women's collective skill levels down by making "good" a different, much lower level of skill compared to what is actually top level play.

 

[Dr. Doomsduck]

http://www.your-krav-maga-expert.com/women-in-idf.html

Cool, thanks for the link. I didn't know that.

So they are still forbidden from active combat then. Wonder why all the photos show them carrying M16's lol.

"For political reasons women's groups have tried to break down barriers but the simple fact is that physically women are not capable of doing the job men do. There was an attempt to integrate women in the Search and Rescue units but it was discovered that a great deal of physical damage was caused to them as a result of the increased effort. Even the girls who were integrated into the anti-aircraft unit suffered great physical damage during the long hikes. They suffered more than 30% more stress factors than the boys."

Ouch. I wonder what feminists will have to say about that.

Because it's part of their training, I guess?

Eh, women aren't men and men aren't women, we all have our strenghts and weaknesses, but to say that women don't do hard work or that because of that they don't deserve the opportunity to prove themselves is kinda lame.