Are you freakin' kidding me?
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As someone else pointed out earlier in this thread, the participants openly admitted that yes in fact it was a rape joke. That was its intention and the joke behind it, the woman involved admits she recognized it as a rape joke and that's why she made a rebuttal similar to it. When the people you are defending by saying 'it's totally not intended to be a rape joke' have openly admitted that is is one continuing to argue that point is just dumb!
Anyway personally I understand the anger in this issue, casual sexism is a real issue and rape jokes and rape language and the overall 'rape culture' is still a very unpleasant and very pervasive thing in our society, to act like it isn't is just silly when we have things like Steubenville as an example that there are still literally entire communities who will demonize a rape victim instead of her rapists.
The simple fact is 'just let it happen it'll be over soon' is apparently a phrase used a lot by rapists during their attacks nd is a phrase a lot of rape survivors describe their attackers as using, it carries connotations that can be clear by the sheer number of WTF reactions on twitter from both male and female spectators that happened as that joke was made.
Rape humor is a touchy thing and personally I try to avoid it when I can, literally the only rape 'joke' I like is the 'rape horn' thing that Phelous uses and even then that's mostly just used to avoid having to talk about unpleasant subject matter. Someone else brought up an interesting idea of how rape is something that governs women's lives far more than it does for men, it's more complex than that but I would suggest people seek that post out rather than read my butchered version of it.
Thing is maybe the rape joke can be justified here because it was two friends who know each other and understand that they are joking... HOWEVER the big elephant in the room was the fact that they weren't just two friends dicking around, they were at a huge public event with literally millions of eyes that would be watching and several hundred journalists. You do not do this in public especially not when you are trying to represent something that already has the worst PR possible.
It does not make you look good. It does not making the Xbone look good (though by now nothing would). And it does not making gaming culture look good.
So yes I'm sorry but this was absolutely a rape joke and even if it was told in jest people can totally get angry about it, maybe not to the degree that they are but still are completely justified.
And you know what? Whenever these sexism issues come up I always find the people freaking out aren't the 'white knight terrified PC police mangina feminazi's' but instead the huge angry crowds of defenders who angrily shut out any conversation by denying everything including basic facts.
Also how come no one is talking about the other sexism incident at the Xbone conference (Oh Microsoft you are good at pissing people off aren't you?) in which 343 executive Bonnie (can't remember last name) took to the stage and as she was a male journalist loudly and obnoxiously wolf whistled. I mean nice, here she is as a professional representing and she's immediately undermined like that, real charming.
I mean while it may not carry the conotations of a rape joke, I find this one particularly indefensible. She's a professional working hard and she should be able to do so without attention being drawn to her gender and physical appearance.
Anyway personally I understand the anger in this issue, casual sexism is a real issue and rape jokes and rape language and the overall 'rape culture' is still a very unpleasant and very pervasive thing in our society, to act like it isn't is just silly when we have things like Steubenville as an example that there are still literally entire communities who will demonize a rape victim instead of her rapists.
The simple fact is 'just let it happen it'll be over soon' is apparently a phrase used a lot by rapists during their attacks nd is a phrase a lot of rape survivors describe their attackers as using, it carries connotations that can be clear by the sheer number of WTF reactions on twitter from both male and female spectators that happened as that joke was made.
Rape humor is a touchy thing and personally I try to avoid it when I can, literally the only rape 'joke' I like is the 'rape horn' thing that Phelous uses and even then that's mostly just used to avoid having to talk about unpleasant subject matter. Someone else brought up an interesting idea of how rape is something that governs women's lives far more than it does for men, it's more complex than that but I would suggest people seek that post out rather than read my butchered version of it.
Thing is maybe the rape joke can be justified here because it was two friends who know each other and understand that they are joking... HOWEVER the big elephant in the room was the fact that they weren't just two friends dicking around, they were at a huge public event with literally millions of eyes that would be watching and several hundred journalists. You do not do this in public especially not when you are trying to represent something that already has the worst PR possible.
It does not make you look good. It does not making the Xbone look good (though by now nothing would). And it does not making gaming culture look good.
So yes I'm sorry but this was absolutely a rape joke and even if it was told in jest people can totally get angry about it, maybe not to the degree that they are but still are completely justified.
And you know what? Whenever these sexism issues come up I always find the people freaking out aren't the 'white knight terrified PC police mangina feminazi's' but instead the huge angry crowds of defenders who angrily shut out any conversation by denying everything including basic facts.
Also how come no one is talking about the other sexism incident at the Xbone conference (Oh Microsoft you are good at pissing people off aren't you?) in which 343 executive Bonnie (can't remember last name) took to the stage and as she was a male journalist loudly and obnoxiously wolf whistled. I mean nice, here she is as a professional representing and she's immediately undermined like that, real charming.
I mean while it may not carry the conotations of a rape joke, I find this one particularly indefensible. She's a professional working hard and she should be able to do so without attention being drawn to her gender and physical appearance.
Please see Vrex360's post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.410308-Are-you-freakin-kidding-me?page=4#19722211], below yours, for my response. It references the article in question, or rather, articles that can be found following the links in the article in question; forgive me for not digging for them, but I have to be getting away from my computer for the next several hours, and I trust that clicking eight or ten links to read the stories they lead to is not an unbearable burden for you.JazzJack2 said:
Boggle.
Seriously, how is it like a rape if she voluntarily got on stage and played the game with him?
Did he force her to play? Did he make her hold the "joystick"? No, she did it willingly and chose to be there.
It's not like a rape at all, and the banter certainly doesn't make it like that. If she was offended, she could have said something. She wasn't.
People are ridiculous.
Seriously, how is it like a rape if she voluntarily got on stage and played the game with him?
Did he force her to play? Did he make her hold the "joystick"? No, she did it willingly and chose to be there.
It's not like a rape at all, and the banter certainly doesn't make it like that. If she was offended, she could have said something. She wasn't.
People are ridiculous.
...Varrdy said:
I love your avatar pic. That was a great episode!
On topic, this could have easily been said to a male player. It is trash talk. If she had said, 'You like that, don't you, *****?' which was actually an automated line the bots used in the Quake Arena games(I think it was quake), which also clearly implies at the VERY least extremely rough sex, would anyone have batted an eye? Nope, not at all.
Except maybe parents of really young kids, I suppose.
Or nuns.
...
But not Hitman nuns, just regular-type nuns.
Honestly, I don't even care who is at fault anymore. Be it horrible men opressing women through rape culture or nasty femnazis taking everything out of context, it has become apparent that if a woman is present at a gaming scene at any given time, there WILL be controversy.
Sigh, what the fuck ever. I'd be really glad if this tangential shit wasn't splattered all over gaming news, but seems like people just love arguing this over and over. Well, thats my problem, freedom of speech and all.
Now excuse me, I'll continue my hunt for threads about gaming news that arent about the genderwar
Sigh, what the fuck ever. I'd be really glad if this tangential shit wasn't splattered all over gaming news, but seems like people just love arguing this over and over. Well, thats my problem, freedom of speech and all.
Now excuse me, I'll continue my hunt for threads about gaming news that arent about the genderwar
Well, this is embarrassing. Though I remain confident in my own mind that I read an admission, the originally linked article now gives me error messages when I try to follow the links and citations it provides, so that among the pages I can follow through to I cannot find the admission I assert is there. So, my own personal confidence notwithstanding, I'm going to have to withdraw this point until I can actually find the information to post here.JimB said:
Yeah this is basically bullshit.
It was a bad line, but it didn't have anything to do with sexual assault. The connection made here is just baffling.
It was a bad line, but it didn't have anything to do with sexual assault. The connection made here is just baffling.
Okay, looking back at it all I can find linked is this:JazzJack2 said:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/06/microsoft-employee-rape-joke-e3-response/66132/
And while I admit that's not incredibly solid evidence but do note that while she doesn't outright say it was a rape joke she doesn't deny it either. I am admitting I will need higher standards of proof to really make that statement but honestly I still stand by my original point, I feel it blatantly was a rape joke and saying it in public was unbelievably dumb.
I'm not gonna side with the people that are saying it wasn't a rape joke because it obviously was. I'm also not gonna side with the people who say it was wrong, because it wasn't.
It was trash-talk. Nobody means what they say when trash-talking. Because they're doing it while playing a video game, in this case a video game about BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF THE OTHER PLAYER. What part of that activity makes you think that taking everything he said seriously is a good idea, people? From non-gamers, I can understand the outrage, because they're probably ignorant of the whole idea of trash-talk. But gamers who're getting offended by this? Just stop.
It was trash-talk. Nobody means what they say when trash-talking. Because they're doing it while playing a video game, in this case a video game about BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF THE OTHER PLAYER. What part of that activity makes you think that taking everything he said seriously is a good idea, people? From non-gamers, I can understand the outrage, because they're probably ignorant of the whole idea of trash-talk. But gamers who're getting offended by this? Just stop.
Why does this whole scenario matter anyway? IIRC the entire thing was staged, the trash-talk was weightless from the beginning. Hell, in a subsequent game the guy got his ass handed to him. I don't know if the trash-talk was scripted, but if it was, it was the laziest attempt at "CONTROVERSY!" I've seen in a while.
Edit: so it wasn't scripted, at least according to those involved. I still think it was blown out of proportion, it was pointless trash-talk.
Edit: so it wasn't scripted, at least according to those involved. I still think it was blown out of proportion, it was pointless trash-talk.
You do not recall correctly. Everyone involved in the display says it was not scripted.BlackFlyme said:
You're free to determine your own standards, of course, but I see no reason why I ought to agree with this woman or her standards. It's not as if her sex or her relationship to the problem make her an expert on the politics of the thing.Wraith said:
Nike didn't design the UCONN Huskies logo to promote rape. But sure enough somebody had to draw a comparison.imahobbit4062 said:
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
For the record, it's not completely ignored. It's just...What can you say in response to this? There's not much to add if you agree, and it strikes me as a point that's hard to argue against.RaikuFA said:
Bite the pillow, my super-move is charged!
But seriously, people read to much into that. if it was two females, it would obviously cater to fanboy tastes, and if it was two men, then women would be underrepresented.
They didn't even intentionally mention rape, they just did some standard, awkward trash talk.
No matter what you do, someone will find it offensive, so why even bother.
But seriously, people read to much into that. if it was two females, it would obviously cater to fanboy tastes, and if it was two men, then women would be underrepresented.
They didn't even intentionally mention rape, they just did some standard, awkward trash talk.
No matter what you do, someone will find it offensive, so why even bother.