(As we all know) Women are not new to gaming.

[Ryotknife]

My god, this thread is amazing. I've never seen someone dig themselves into a hole so well, then burn the ladder thrown down to them. It's truly a wondrous sight to see. I thank you Tippy, you've helped me cross something off my bucket list.

Besides that... fish swim, birds fly and girls? Girls play video games. Not that hard a concept to understand, really.

I was expecting a Bonk in there somewhere

 

[psyco]

solution: wear steel toed boots.(couldnt resist)

Heh. Expected answer is expected. They kick your shins instead a.s.o. until you wear full body armor (which effectively translates into no mic, neutral gamer tag, whathaveyou)... and now imagine having to get into that bloody heavy, hot and uncomfortable armor every single, fucking day.

I dare anyone say they wouldn't complain about that. Plus working (or any activity, really) with full body armor should prove to be... interesting.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Sorry but this stuff is actually getting to me and making me very angry now.

I have a friend that really loves motorbikes and he asked me why I was so upset about this. I said Imagine if a bunch of girls said 'You don't really like bikes because you have a penis'
That seemed to get the message across. I've been playing games for 26 years of my life. I wish guys would stop trying to tell me I don't belong.

Tippy seems to be repeatedly asserting that women can't possibly be 42% of the community because WOMINZ DONT PLAY GAMEZ! It's very aggravating.

I guess I'll try and take a break before I say something I get into trouble for.

Hmmmm.....Edge. Hope I don't get sued. Anyway.

I lolled.

You have every right to be angry at the ISSUE, and it is actually great that you are. Just be careful your anger doesnt turn into an aoe attack, because friendly fire is turned on in real life.

He didnt allude that women dont play games.

If the statistic said that 99.9% of gamers were female, would you accept that at face value? Or would you question it because it runs counter to evidence that you know? One should always question what they themselves believe.

Oh I wasn't saying you were saying it your post was very reasonable I was just making the point in general. I would accept 42% as an accurate statistic mostly because I know at estimate 90% of the The Sims 3 players are women. That's got to count for a lot of them.

I know quite a few female gamers personally although the ones I play multiplayer with are usually my male best mate and his old cs tournie buddies (I'm not going to even embarrass myself trying to play cs:go with them) I also tease a guy who likes me by saying he is a casual for playing Halo and Madden

It just felt like he was trying to say that there are hardly any women playing games when I know from personal experience that it isn't true. I'd say 30% of my gaming friends are women and that's not including my sister who doesn't have time to play but when she does she is amazing.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Out of curiosity [and a bit off topic], what would women want in a female targeted "fan-service" game?

They are fine as they are now, just need the sexualisation toned down and some choice to play a female character in some games. (not all).

I'm talking more about games like DOA: extreme beach volleyball, where it's designed purely to pander sexually, to a male audience.

I've always wondered what the opposite of that would be like, if a true opposite even exists.

You know I don't think it does, most women just aren't like that. I think bioware games are very good for their romances if that's something even close to similar.

I just can't see women asking for games with naked guys running about. It seems a very silly idea to me.

Maybe women are more likely to want romance rather than sexualisation and arguably you could easily make that so it is optional and it wouldn't bother guys. (and throw a bucket of water over Anders...)

Perhaps the solution to all this is modding or having an option to put more clothes on ladies I certainly don't ***** about Skyrim mods that make Serena run around in her underwear because I'm not forced to use them and I can enjoy the game without it being shoved in my face.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

snip

Don't get me wrong I'm looking forward to the reboot. I just don't like the way that guy made it come across like she needs male gamers to 'protect her'

ah

well much like the "girlfreind mode" thing I think it was just a case of "something dumb someone said"

and I don't think he ment it in "that" way when he said it...

Ah. Innocent until proven guilty. The benefit of the doubt. Don't give it to Tippy.....<_<At this point I think it's going to end up being a plea of insanity.

snip

Moonlight, I think it's time to stop talking to Tippy. I think he has gone over the edge. Hmmmm.....Edge. Hope I don't get sued. Anyway.

His starting bit was mostly about how he believes females don't make up 47% of gamers, and now he's raving about it being true, but too crazy to be true? Either he really believes, or he's full of it.
Don't get me wrong, you're doing great out there, you gave the bull some knockout hits of logic and reason, but thing is your "opponent" isn't using either. Tippy is using belief. You're hitting a wall basically.

I'm not saying give up the fight. It's just that while walls of belief don't need logic to stand they are still made of it. Bad logic in this case, but yeah. "Logic". Also in this case the wall of belief is made of such bad logic that there is a hole in it big enough for a person to fit through. No point in breaking a wall full of holes. Just go through it, or step around it. And don't worry. When reality hits this wall it will come crashing down.

Sorry for all the metaphors. But you got to use a lot of odd junk to explain the abstract.
Also, no need to thank me for hope. You and the others gave it to me first.

Ah. Hope. A wall of belief with logic so thin I can see through it. Yet only death can break through it, and even then only enough to let itself through. Beautiful no?
Oh, and I like 101's new look too.

Well...I certainly agree the ref should send Tippy and Moonlight back to their corners for a little while. They need a breather.

And yes, I agree with what you said about those fragile walls we often build.

Though be careful, Fox News might make that second-to-last line sound like a death threat in one of it's 'research' specials on gaming culture.

Ha ha ha. Nice. One problem with that Fox news bit. For that to be a threat I would have to be death to see it through. And well.... .....I'm not death. Ha ha ha.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

*Snip*

I don't think people should be complacent and accept low standards because other people are making money. That's how the music industry turned into what it currently is.

Really?

And here I was thinking it had something to do with an increased level of competition for a finite amount of disposable income from theaters, home video, PPV services, television, cable, satellite, books and other content providers, which of course would include the video game industry.

Are you absolutely sure it had nothing to do with the inevitability of a severe price correction to the products and services the demand for which had been largely sustained through the manipulation of artificial scarcity, slick marketing campaigns and a lack of alternative technologies, and was ultimately doomed the moment the pace of technology outpaced the music industry's ability to keep up and control it?

Needless to say, I disagree with your assertion.

Again, I speak from experience and whole hearted assure you plenty of men play farmville (I know fewer women who do, actually) and plenty of women play halo.

There are also women who lie about their gender online.

A lot of them. And that corrupts statistics even further.

Some men pretend to be women as well, though that's usually for trolling sessions and they often don't actually hit the 'female' check box...

Please stop peddling your gender deconstructionist nonsense.

Both social[footnote]http://gigaom.com/2010/02/17/average-social-gamer-is-a-43-year-old-woman/[/footnote] and casual[footnote]http://www.igda.org/online/quarterly/1_2/casual.php[/footnote] gaming audiences skew towards a far more older female audience then the average results published by the ESA. With one of the sources I've listed mentioning a female participation rate as high as 75%.

I feel quite confident in telling you straight up, and to your face that your male friends playing Farmville in no way, shape or form represents anything that could even be remotely misconstrued as being a typical Farmville player.

As for the women who play Halo. Well, I've never doubted the fact.

But doesn't mean that I cannot also display a open, reasoned and well-researched skepticism into whether or not they've ever been a meaningful partition of the demographical audience for that particular genre of video game.

There are also women who lie about their gender online.

Irrelevant.

Unless they also happen to enjoy wrapping their heads in cooking foil, and only paying for purchases in unmarked bank notes, then their credit card details and/or banking details will ultimately betray the nature of their sex.

Not everyone was given a politically correct name, like Ashley A. Androgynous.

You think you can escape the true name harvest that easily?

I'm aware the bias might work the statistics a bit, but...well, I have seen the evidence of this statistic. As have several guys and girls in this very forum topic.

Of course several people have not experienced the wonder of a person with a Y chromosome holding a controller first hand. It depends on were you live, since online interactions can't be trusted. It's entirely random how much exposure you get.

Hell, the point is, a lot of women play games, they get a lot of crap from a vocal minority, and the facts make it clear they're here to stay, so let's play nice. I PERSONALLY see no reason to doubt ESA because it matches up with the fact that half the gamers I know are women. If I didn't know those women, I might doubt it. I can see where this perspective comes from.

Then you have a demonstrable inability to critically interpret the data that you yourself brought up. Which is a fact that I find far more horrifying than anything else you've mentioned.

 

[Vault101]

Ah. Innocent until proven guilty. The benefit of the doubt. Don't give it to Tippy.....<_<At this point I think it's going to end up being a plea of insanity.

Tippy? ooohhh no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no, I wasnt giving it to tippy

I was talking about the people from Tombe raider/Borderlands 2 that said those stupid things

I wouldn't give tippy anything..much less more of my time

[quote/]Oh, and I like 101's new look too.[/quote]

thanks!

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

So what is your point? Just because women in are in a minority we should keep our opinions to ourselves and not let devs know what we would like.

Have you guys ever thought that make its the pandering and lack of female characters in gaming that makes women more attracted to casual or even indie games? Because those at least don't treat women like sex objects for guys to ogle.

I know that a very high percentage of people who like Fallout, TES and Bioware games are women. Because I've hung out on fansites for those games.

Spoiler: Charon has more fangirls than Edward Cullen and he's a freaking ghoul.

Well you can't say women are shallow at least...

(All of those characters in the pic are women's Fallout 3 own characters from deviant art they had someone draw this as a joke)

 

[Vault101]

Out of curiosity [and a bit off topic], what would women want in a female targeted "fan-service" game?

who the hell says thats what we want? (aside from that crazy guy tippy0

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Out of curiosity [and a bit off topic], what would women want in a female targeted "fan-service" game?

who the hell says thats what we want? (aside from that crazy guy tippy0

Yeah I don't think that this is what we want really I can't even imagine what a female fanservice game would be like beyond like the romance options in bioware games or somthing and guys like those too so :/

 

[Contradiction]

Out of curiosity [and a bit off topic], what would women want in a female targeted "fan-service" game?

who the hell says thats what we want? (aside from that crazy guy tippy0

He said what would you want if the situation were to arise not 'women want fan-service games like guys and are mad they don't get them'. Lower the guard and stop being so defensive.

 

[wulf3n]

Out of curiosity [and a bit off topic], what would women want in a female targeted "fan-service" game?

who the hell says thats what we want? (aside from that crazy guy tippy0

I never said there is, I was merely curious to find out if there was, and what that might be.

 

[Vault101]

You aim all you angry responses directly at me, but fail to realize that I'm not one of the sexist asshole jerks that plague gaming.

My only goal in this thread is to help give female gamers advice on how to deal with them, because female gamers are actually here and trying to seek a solution.
The sexist asshole jerks you are trying to convey your message to never visit these forums. They are far out of reach, in their own world where they can be safe and anonymous and insult people over games all day long, especially females.

That is the reality of it.

I.....I.....I......

hahahahahahahahaha

oh lawd I don't even

[quote/]I just happen to understand the mentality of sexist asshole jerks and the reason for their behaviour, I understand it very well. I'm speaking on their behalf because the majority of them don't even know what forums are, or civil discussion are, or why it's wrong to be a sexist asshole jerk. Keep that in mind.[/quote]

of coase they do..there are forums and blogs devoted entirly to being sexist assholes..have you seen youtube comments?

I call bullshit...you seemd pretty much dead on serious first time around..your not talking your way out of this one

 

[Vault101]

[
He said what would you want if the situation were to arise not 'women want fan-service games like guys and are mad they don't get them'. Lower the guard and stop being so defensive.

I never said there is, I was merely curious to find out if there was, and what that might be.

I'm sorry..I just came out of that incident with Tiffy with post traumatic stress disorder or somthing so I;m a little defensive

the thing is I think people make th mistake of thinking female and male sexuality is the same thing and/or interchangeable..its not

take a look at charachters like Kaiden and Thane from mass effect, I'd say those may made to apeal to women, they arnt scantily clad or even overly musclebound

and even the Garrus is probably more popular than both of them, which goes to shwo thats its somthing other than the physical aspect

 

[Shadowcreed]

I hope these numbers are true, though it does scare me a bit. I'm playing League of Legends a lot and my god some players are such whining little sh**s, to think they might be female is a little edgy xD

 

[Vault101]

My god, this thread is amazing. I've never seen someone dig themselves into a hole so well, then burn the ladder thrown down to them. It's truly a wondrous sight to see. I thank you Tippy, you've helped me cross something off my bucket list.

Besides that... fish swim, birds fly and girls? Girls play video games. Not that hard a concept to understand, really.

this may be a little presumptuous of me....

but I claim full credit for being the one to break him!

 

[AngelBlackChaos]

I have no idea what this thread is supposed to be about anymore, but it's making me want to quit my job and go live in the woods forever.

But as far as women in the video game industry making their voices heard and changing crap or whatever that I keep hearing, that's easier said than done. You don't just waltz in as the new employee of a AAA studio that makes games traditionally marketed towards men and expect things to change. No one cares what your gender is, nobody seeks out your womanly opinions or approval of ideas. And most women who do voice their opinions don't speak on behalf of WOMEN, only their own thoughts on the matter. You're hired under the assumption that you fit in with the company culture, not to go against it or try to change the way things are done.

AAA game developers are a ridiculously homogenous bunch of people, and I imagine it will be years before things really start to change. I see a lot more younger females in the industry/working to get in than experienced and influential women, so I suppose it's really just a matter of time. The more that AAA games appeal to a broader audience, the more you'll probably see them wanting to follow that route rather than getting into casual/girl games development.

I was really, really hoping you would come in. XD

Please don't quit your job. You are like, one of my examples of someone in the game industry that supports positive changes.

Not only that, you explained whats going on within the game industry to people that haven't seen the other side.

So, thank you.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

:|

*checks her soda*

You are a scary lady sometimes.

But yeah fanservice is like something that plays on something the creator knows the viewer will like. In A:TLA a lot of fans loved Zuko and Zutara (Katara and Zuko) was a popular pairing in fanfic so they made Korra's love interest Mako very similar to him. It was pretty blatant.

this may be a little presumptuous of me....

but I claim full credit for being the one to break him!

Definately