(As we all know) Women are not new to gaming.

[theblindedhunter]

Shrug off the empty threats and insults thrown around the multiplayer and the internet (I've done it for years), come out of the shadows, kick some ass in gaming. I'm not talking to YOU specifically, but all female gamers.

Just want to say, there is a ]b]big[/b] difference between an insult or similar grounding itself in something untrue or intangible/undefinable like "you're a noob", and something like "you're a slut" or "you're a ******" that is tied to something that you use to self-identify and cannot change about yourself. Yes, perhaps you aren't a slut (or perhaps you are to some degree and that just makes someone turning it into an insult even worse), but it is still tying an insult to your self, and that is a little harder to ignore psychologically.

Also the other things you stay still sound vaguely like "it is the way it is so you shouldn't try to change it" when you say something along the lines of

You don't really have a choice at the moment, it's going to take years for things to change.

just so you know.

And I also don't see why men shouldn't be held to the standards of "don't be an abusive, pandering, sexist asshole". And perhaps you don't think that, but that's how it has come off at times. It is as much the job of men to make women welcome as it is women's job to push themselves into the community - if not more so.

... that was a bit of a string of thoughts and kind of disorganized, but I guess I'm just not done saying things.

EDIT: Oh, also, to hell with just sitting around letting people insult people at all. If someone calls me a noob for doing something they don't like, or hell, making a mistake, I'm going to call them out on being a dick, and everyone else should too.

 

[theblindedhunter]

No, I don't mean people employed there (that would be mental).
As stated, I don't think they mean to be rude, so I generally don't hold it against them. I'd love to have a conversation about the games with them, I'll talk games with anyone! But I don't want them explaining games to me. Unfortunately, the assumption is often that I don't know what I'm doing.
In that situation I don't really know what to do- If I say something like outright `I actually know. You don't need to explain`, it sounds harsh. If I hint that I know what I'm doing, it tends to go straight over their head. I just usually nod and let them get on with it.

Kiiindof off-topic, but I just wanted to throw in on the off chance that it hadn't been tried, maybe, when they start up, something like "oh, yeah, I played the first game in the series" or "it looks a lot like [other game], which I enjoyed". If it doesn't hint to them that you're not-so-inexperienced with games, at least it might get them saying something useful.

 

[ms_sunlight]

I'll eat my own shoe if anyone convinces me that 42% of the people in the above photos are women.

Those photos were just randomly searched of gaming expos. This time I didn't show tournament winners (because the lack of females in that department is scary), this is just random gaming expos.

They're not. You showed us the usual sausage festivals. That's the scary thing. If 40% or thereabouts of gamers are women or girls - even if a much smaller but non-negligible percentage are women or girls - then where the hell are they at visible gaming events like trade shows, competetions, LAN parties etc?

Go to another hobby that's overwhelmingly got a male fan base - whether it be Formula 1 or comic book fandom or pigeon racing - and you'll see far more women there than that. Now, what does that tell you about the culture of gaming?

 

[lowhat]

And I also don't see why men shouldn't be held to the standards of "don't be an abusive, pandering, sexist asshole". And perhaps you don't think that, but that's how it has come off at times. It is as much the job of men to make women welcome as it is women's job to push themselves into the community - if not more so.

Let me guess, your age is >30, right? Because what a load of entitled BS this statement is. It's not my job to do anything just because I was born with a Y chromosome, any more than it's the job of women to get back into the kitchen because they were born with 2 Xs. This whole thread is some of the whiniest, "poor me, the world isn't what I think it is, and it should adjust itself to me rather than me adjusting to it" Millenial bitching I have ever seen.

If you don't like how things are, change them to the extent that you can, don't cry about how other people should bend over backwards to pander to your fluffy little Kumbaya worldview, because that will never, ever happen.

 

[Tippy]

If a guy wants to have a beef with me or my sex I'm going to respond like a female white shark with pups. I'm not going to sit there all demure and quietly put up with it. Things aren't going to change if we don't make a fuss.

Sod that.

Never mind me putting my flame suit on, they are due for some serious backdraft.

Even better! I like you!

*steals one of your pups*

*runs the hell away*

They're not. You showed us the usual sausage festivals. That's the scary thing. If 40% or thereabouts of gamers are women or girls - even if a much smaller but non-negligible percentage are women or girls - then where the hell are they at visible gaming events like trade shows, competetions, LAN parties etc?

A couple tried to justify that women are turned off coming BECAUSE they're sausage festivals, and the booth babes, and they're generally embarrassed to be the minority, the issue self-replicates itself until almost no girls bother coming. I can sort of see that happening, IF the total population of female gamers was under <20% (a far more realistic figure).
But 42% of gamers being women and almost none of them being interested in such events? I just can't swallow that, and I don't expect anybody else to swallow it either. If you make up that huge a chunk of the population, "awww they might be shy" just doesn't cut it.

And before someone else plays the "but I don't live near an expo" card, for the love of god please try to understand how ratios and populations work. It doesn't matter whether YOU can't attend one, it's not about 1 person.

Go to another hobby that's overwhelmingly got a male fan base - whether it be Formula 1 or comic book fandom or pigeon racing - and you'll see far more women there than that. Now, what does that tell you about the culture of gaming?

Totally agreed. I'm actually pleasantly surprised by the huge number of women who attend racing events such as F1, motorcross, sprint cars and even jet-boating. It's excellent to see so many women in the crowds, excellent to know that they love watching races (it's still considered a "man" thing lol) just as much as men and they make their presence felt.
Tough-nut sports like Rugby and Football? Almost half the crowd are women, female fans everywhere! Excellent!

Gaming is also considered a sport (well, atleast professionla gaming) - female audience, or female participants? Jack-all. Well no, I saw a video of a live Korean Starcraft championship and quite a few girls were in the audience actually - most likely partners or relatives providing support, but atleast they were there. But participants? 1 in maybe 40-50, if even that.

In fact professional gaming is probably one of the extremely few sports that will allow men to compete directly with/against women.
You just won't see such a thing happening in any other sport, even psychological sports like CHESS keep men and women apart (as if we're at different intelligence levels or something) but you won't see that in gaming.

The potential is awesome, women what are you waiting for? A chunk of males to being jerks to you, is that what's holding you back?

 

[Something Amyss]

How awesome?

No one except insecure trolls on 4chan and youtube are actually having a problem with this, who are you actually aiming this to? There aren't a whole lot of people on the escapist having a problem with women.

But all the power to you I guess?

You forgot the entire XBox Live community in there. >.>

 

[Right Hook]

I guess I'll believe the statistics, it's just hard for me to really see evidence when everywhere I turn is another dude playing games and it remains rare to find a girl who plays anything but angry birds type games. I totally love the idea of women playing lots and lots of games, can't see why anyone would be against it and I'm not even saying it isn't true, I'd just like to see it more often, maybe if enough girls showed up in the online space the annoying pre-teen, misogynistic tendencies would finally fade, we could see some maturity...wait, who am I kidding that will never happen.

Spoiler: At least it'd give me more chances to White Knight, hellz yeah...

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

*Kicks and punches her way through a wall*

SUP

Been playing since I was 3 in 1984, I get really angry with some boys telling me that I'm invading their hobby. So please don't do that. Also I have been called 'lesbian' and suchlike from guys for liking games (mostly in school). So it's no wonder some girls kept it a secret.

I spent £345 on games last month (I fully accept I have a problem.)

That depends, what games were they?

And who's wall was that?

It was your wall. It was everyone's wall. It was a meta wall.

Spoiler: Heres a list from my Steam history for summer. I bought a lot of the triple As at Christmas.

Skyrim - Dawnguard
Dark Souls Pre-Order (already finished it on XBOX but I'm looking forward to the improved co op.)
VVVVVV
Stacking
Fallout 3 - Game of the Year (backup copy already finished it)
STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl (backup copy already finished it)
Botanicula
Recettear: An Item Shop's Tale
Bioshock (backup copy already finished it)
Just Cause 2 (On Yahtzee's rec)
Metro 2033 All Languages
Assassin's Creed Revelations - Gold Edition
Ys Origin
Summer Sale Indie Bundle Day Four
Batman Arkham City: Harley Quinn
Summer Sale Indie Bundle Day Three
Mirror's Edge
Max Payne 3 (ROW)
The Binding Of Isaac
Alan Wake Bundle (Summer 2012) (backup copy and the DLC's/American Nightmare that I didn't get on Xbox was way to cheap to turn down.)
Rayman Origins
The Walking Dead
Offspring Fling!

Guild Wars 2 digital deluxe. (not on Steam)

Not sure why I have to justify my taste in games to you though.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Hey I break physics it's what I do. Haven't tried Mirrors Edge yet.

It was more my problem that I spent so much money....><

 

[DeathStreamer]

Aren't games just a depiction of a creator's ideas made to entertain more than just the creator himself, to tell a story and inspire the imagination? I know someone else on this thread mentioned that games exist as a medium for escape to him/her, and such is also true of me (perhaps of all gamers?). I like to escape the real world and explore other people's ideas, worlds, and fantasies for the purpose of my enjoyment. And as a fantasy I'd want fantastic companions, hopefully one of them could be a nice attractive lady? If I were a girl and enjoyed games as much as I do already, I'd want a nice man to join me in my imaginary adventures. I have always made sure to keep "my world" and the real world separate however, so even though I may view attractive imaginary women as objects when I fantasise (which is essentially what they are, within the gaming world, along with everyone and everything else), It has no (or very little) effect on how I view women in the real world. I still respect real women as individuals.

So ultimately the only problem I see with objectifying women within a game is if it influences how one views real women, who deserve respect as much as anyone else. Similar to all the debates about how "gaming makes people kill", which is as absurd as saying guns or knives kill people, when both require someone to use them. In this case, the only negative role games have is perhaps providing ideas to someone. But it's hardly a game which makes anyone do either of these things. People will only objectify women, or kill other people, if they were the type of person to do so in the first place, without the influence of games.

On the ACTUAL TOPIC: Gaming needs more (real) women

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Lol, this thread reminds me of this:
Full of Betas and Omegas up in here white knighting as if their life depended on it, grow some fucking balls lol

Please elaborate to me what White Knighting is Mr. Alpha, for I most certainly must have the wrong understanding of it.

You see, I've been under the impression that White Knighting is the go to response for people who can't formulate an argument of their own, and instead regurgitate the bullshit they read on /v/ or some other den inequity and faux-intellectuals.

You see,the term "white Knight" in these circumstances (debates on virtually anonymous forums) appears to be used primarily to discredit an argument pro-gender equity without formulating an argument of their own, and instead attacking the integrity of the person holding the argument.

The problem with this is that anyone who isn't 12 and below, can see through that ruse and ends up betraying more about the user of the term, then it defines its intended target.

For example, from your post I can surmise that you believe in an outdated and thoroughly debunked idea of primal hierarchies (Alpha/Omega) and that you don't realise that the most vocal people on this topic, pro-gender equity, are Female. You also think like a teenager in a school yard, where calling names and acting like your testicles actually make a damn bit of difference in the equation.

On topic: Here is a trend I see in these debates.

Women gamers get vocal, make a fuss and look for the same attention their male cohorts receive.
- People tell them not to rock the boat.
- They tell them that they are too few to "deserve" or to achieve the change they protest for.
- Claim that women gamers aren't real or are very rare and all this hullabaloo is just to get some cock or to ruin our hobby. (because Bitches amirite?)
- That women don't do enough for "games" or the culture/industry of games to be entitled to change (you know, because unless you make at least one fucking game in your life, you have no right to say anything).

Male gamers who agree with the sentiments and desires of the female audience and make that acceptance known.
- Get called out for White Knighting, because you know, the only people we ever support others are the ones we want to bone. Why else would anyone ever do that?
- Are told they are gullible or easily manipulated/brainwashed by the femnazis/bitches/tits and/or vagina (this isn't ironic at all)
- It is understood that they have neither balls, nor are they getting sex, because obviously they are too pathetic to be real men or "alpha males".

You know, from where I stand, it looks like people are afraid of change. I can't see any other side to this that isn't facetious bullshit or fox news worthy fear mongering.

 

[theblindedhunter]

And I also don't see why men shouldn't be held to the standards of "don't be an abusive, pandering, sexist asshole". And perhaps you don't think that, but that's how it has come off at times. It is as much the job of men to make women welcome as it is women's job to push themselves into the community - if not more so.

Let me guess, your age is >30, right? Because what a load of entitled BS this statement is. It's not my job to do anything just because I was born with a Y chromosome, any more than it's the job of women to get back into the kitchen because they were born with 2 Xs. This whole thread is some of the whiniest, "poor me, the world isn't what I think it is, and it should adjust itself to me rather than me adjusting to it" Millenial bitching I have ever seen.

If you don't like how things are, change them to the extent that you can, don't cry about how other people should bend over backwards to pander to your fluffy little Kumbaya worldview, because that will never, ever happen.

Uh, no.
I'm 18, and it is everyone's job to not be dicks to eachother: the point is that having a Y chromosome doesn't exempt anyone from that. Those with said Y chromosomes just happen to be in the position of greater power here.
And I really don't get how someone can complain about people wanting to "adjust" the world in one sentence, then say that you should "change [it] to the extent" they can. Um, isn't that the same thing? My trying to point out to more and more people that "guess what, you can also try not being a jerk to people" and "guess what, we're all human and really ought to get along" is me working to change things bit by bit - just as much as living up to those standards is me doing the same.

EDIT: And if you've got to "bend over backwards" to be kind to people, then that is just sad.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Uh, no.
I'm 18, and it is everyone's job to not be dicks to eachother:

And I'm over 30 and I agree with him.

Men don't and shouldn't have a free pass to act like asshats to women. I don't have any problem being called a noob etc but we shouldn't have to put up with sexual harassment or people saying we aren't gamers because we happen to have ovaries.

 

[IndomitableSam]

I've been playing games since the 80's. I also haven't really had any issue with men being dicks to me in a good number of years. I haven't even really had much issue since WoW came out 8 years ago. There were some, but by that point I was an adult and I didn't really care and brushed most of it off. Once - only once - I got the "hay its a girl" in ME3 multiplayer, and I said "Yeah, and?" and proceeded to play the game, and the guy just started chatting normally after that.

Guys are only half the problem - a lot of girls are as well. I don't think I need to explain why they're the issue - everyone knows that type of gamer girl. They're the ones denegrating us.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I will say my wife gets annoyed when a girl says shes a gamer and all she does is play guitar hero.
Then again she played WoW into the ground so maybe she demands a certain caliber when it comes to gamers.

I know we have quite a few gamer girls in my SWtOR guild. It appears that the women/men ratio is rising from what it was a decade ago, but I have no stats to back that up so take it how you wish.