Bad guys you quickly/later realized weren't actually evil.

[Section Crow]

*Potential Spoilers*

this may just be me but i thought that pretty much everyone was a bad guy in syndicate, then as i progressed i learned that no one was a 'bad guy' at least that's how i saw it.

all the people you oppose or kill are mostly just companies trying to sustain themselves through small skirmishes against each other to ensure war does not happen which is not being inherently evil or bad, and if there ever was a bad guy than it would probably be the main character or the other agents, but they were not bad guys either as they are sustaining the company as well by neutralizing all potential 'trouble makers' and thus preserving the stability for the people under the companies, it could also be said that there is no particular 'good guy' either as none of these actions are good in any sense but they are not exactly bad as well.

sorry if i am being vague but trying to steer away from main story plots and etc

 

[Avatar Roku]

3. Talos wasn't a god he was a man who drove the NATIVE elves of skyrim underground in the name of the nords, nearly committing genocide, the native elves were then forced into slavery and blinded by the dwemer turning them into the falmer and now talos is worshiped like a god for it, even though he was just a man.
.

he was accepted as a god by the outer gods

if that dosen't do it oblivion kinda proved he was a god
as you needed the blood of a divine to open a gate to paradise and you used his and i don't think magic rituals to rip open a door to a Dadric lord's summer home work on the wishful thinking of the population.

but the ritual only worked as he was accepted by the gods as a god, he was still a man who was worshiped as a god, but he was accepted as a god because he was worshiped by so many, and he was worshiped by so many for nearly committing genocide. This could be seen as incredibly offensive to be kind of people he killed, imagine if a person nearly committed genocide and this granted him worship to such an extent it was seen as a religion, wouldn't you find that religion incredibly offensive, wouldn't the people that that person nearly committed genocide on have a right to speak out about this and ask ti to be stopped so a mass murder wouldn't be seen as a god.

You are confusing Talos with Ysgramor. Talos, also known as Tiber Septim, is the first emperor of the third and current Empire and united all of Tamriel. Ysgramor drove the snow elves underground.

Also lets not forget that Talos is currently literally holding the universe together and is the most popular god in cyrodil.

OK I just read up on it and yes I did get those two mixed up, but I am still siding with the imperials as the reason I was against the storm cloaks is because they are racists, also I don't see the imperials ever stop the worship of talos I mean in their main city in skyrim they have a guy in the city center shouting about the glory of talos and the only thing I have seen was the removal of his shrine in the temple and you are saying that is something it is worth causing a war over.

In their main city in Skyrim? You mean Solitude? Because the only person I can think of who yelled about Talos was in Whiterun, which was the only neutral city.

 

[nuba km]

3. Talos wasn't a god he was a man who drove the NATIVE elves of skyrim underground in the name of the nords, nearly committing genocide, the native elves were then forced into slavery and blinded by the dwemer turning them into the falmer and now talos is worshiped like a god for it, even though he was just a man.
.

he was accepted as a god by the outer gods

if that dosen't do it oblivion kinda proved he was a god
as you needed the blood of a divine to open a gate to paradise and you used his and i don't think magic rituals to rip open a door to a Dadric lord's summer home work on the wishful thinking of the population.

but the ritual only worked as he was accepted by the gods as a god, he was still a man who was worshiped as a god, but he was accepted as a god because he was worshiped by so many, and he was worshiped by so many for nearly committing genocide. This could be seen as incredibly offensive to be kind of people he killed, imagine if a person nearly committed genocide and this granted him worship to such an extent it was seen as a religion, wouldn't you find that religion incredibly offensive, wouldn't the people that that person nearly committed genocide on have a right to speak out about this and ask ti to be stopped so a mass murder wouldn't be seen as a god.

You are confusing Talos with Ysgramor. Talos, also known as Tiber Septim, is the first emperor of the third and current Empire and united all of Tamriel. Ysgramor drove the snow elves underground.

Also lets not forget that Talos is currently literally holding the universe together and is the most popular god in cyrodil.

OK I just read up on it and yes I did get those two mixed up, but I am still siding with the imperials as the reason I was against the storm cloaks is because they are racists, also I don't see the imperials ever stop the worship of talos I mean in their main city in skyrim they have a guy in the city center shouting about the glory of talos and the only thing I have seen was the removal of his shrine in the temple and you are saying that is something it is worth causing a war over.

In their main city in Skyrim? You mean Solitude? Because the only person I can think of who yelled about Talos was in Whiterun, which was the only neutral city.

-.- these mistakes don't make my argument seem very strong to they, I just considered it their main city because I spend so much time there, but my point still stands if a city that is able to remain neutral with a man worshiping talos so openly in their town center and promoting other people to do the same they can't be taking their ban on talos seriously at all.

 

[kouriichi]

In all honesty, there are very few "Villains" who are evil.
I look at almost everything in the 40k light. Every faction is "evil" in their own ways.
Storm Cloaks? Empire? Theyre both "evil", and at the same time, both "good". Ulfric wants to protect Skyrim and its history, culture and people. The Empire wants to take control of Skyrim to restore order, maintain integrity of their province control, and possibly use the land to help in the future war against the Aldmeri Dominion, who are arguably the REAL evil. Possibly more of a threat then the Big Bad Boss dragon.

In the end, almost everyone and every faction is.... Neutral. Even the Falmer, who want to take over the overland, are only "Evil" because of how they were enslaved by the Dwemer in their time of need.

Good, Bad, Evil, Holy, its all a matter of perception. There are only one or two people/things i can definitively say are "Evil".

While i know the internet has much hate for CoD, Makarov is evil. They basically said "lets take everything evil and put it into one person who the good guys can shoot".

Lu Bu is another great evil. Wanting nothing more the to fight, win and cause mass blood shed. Hes Kharn the Betrayer for the Dynasty Warriors universe. No "Good" can come from Lu Bu.

And EA. EA is evil. They want to monitor and control all life on the planet so they can make crappy sports games were contractually obligated to purchase or we lose our immortal souls, to spend an eternity in their marketing department making terrible commercials for products people grow to hate.

 

[ZiggyE]

I'd like to take the opposite route because I feel it is worth mentioning. Good guys who you later realise are completely evil. And a character who I feel accurately portrays this trend is King Varian Wrynn from World of Warcraft. The guy is an evil, racist, genocidal maniac who loves war.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

I am? Where did I say that? I'm siding with the imperials since a united empire is the worlds only hope against the Thalmor.

Long Live the Empire!!


OT: Caesar's Legion, from Fallout: New Vegas. They are ultimately the only hope for that region of the world?.to ensure survival for the human race.

 

[bfgmetalhead]

In all honesty, there are very few "Villains" who are evil.
I look at almost everything in the 40k light. Every faction is "evil" in their own ways.
Storm Cloaks? Empire? Theyre both "evil", and at the same time, both "good". Ulfric wants to protect Skyrim and its history, culture and people. The Empire wants to take control of Skyrim to restore order, maintain integrity of their province control, and possibly use the land to help in the future war against the Aldmeri Dominion, who are arguably the REAL evil. Possibly more of a threat then the Big Bad Boss dragon.

In the end, almost everyone and every faction is.... Neutral. Even the Falmer, who want to take over the overland, are only "Evil" because of how they were enslaved by the Dwemer in their time of need.

Good, Bad, Evil, Holy, its all a matter of perception. There are only one or two people/things i can definitively say are "Evil".

While i know the internet has much hate for CoD, Makarov is evil. They basically said "lets take everything evil and put it into one person who the good guys can shoot".

Lu Bu is another great evil. Wanting nothing more the to fight, win and cause mass blood shed. Hes Kharn the Betrayer for the Dynasty Warriors universe. No "Good" can come from Lu Bu.

And EA. EA is evil. They want to monitor and control all life on the planet so they can make crappy sports games were contractually obligated to purchase or we lose our immortal souls, to spend an eternity in their marketing department making terrible commercials for products people grow to hate.

I like you, you clever. Screw EA killing Westwood.

 

[IckleMissMayhem]

Yup. She was getting possessed by the big bad Ultimecia, "a sorceress from the future" who's evil scheme was compressing all of time to a single instant, thereby destroying the entire wor..yada yada yada... Edea received the powers of a Sorceress in order to prevent them being passed on to one of her adoptive children, and passed thse same powers on to Rinoa for precisely the same reason.

Yes Ultimecia, correct! The final boss that stopped me from beating the game. That left me with a bitter taste.

She is an absolute horrorbag to beat. Especially when she pulls Griever out of the bag.

Good job the end cutscenes are well worth it. FFXIII-2 take note and do better next time.

 

[Westaway]

The Empire in Skyrim. They are made to be the bad guys in the beginning but they are actually trying to do their best to maintain stability. All the bad stuff that the Empire does is because of the Elves. Ulfric Stormcloak is the real bad guy.

Pretty much this. Stormcloaks winning would mean the end of the whole Empire.

 

[doomspore98]

Every single character in Game Of Thrones.





Well, except Joffrey. He's just a complete prick.

Ditto. also his mother and uncle. I hate those guys

 

[SajuukKhar]

The Reapers, they really aren't evil.

 

[Tony2077]

i see most of them as what they are the antagonist some of evil some are misguided and some are good just are going about it the wrong way

 

[Avatar Roku]

3. Talos wasn't a god he was a man who drove the NATIVE elves of skyrim underground in the name of the nords, nearly committing genocide, the native elves were then forced into slavery and blinded by the dwemer turning them into the falmer and now talos is worshiped like a god for it, even though he was just a man.
.

he was accepted as a god by the outer gods

if that dosen't do it oblivion kinda proved he was a god
as you needed the blood of a divine to open a gate to paradise and you used his and i don't think magic rituals to rip open a door to a Dadric lord's summer home work on the wishful thinking of the population.

but the ritual only worked as he was accepted by the gods as a god, he was still a man who was worshiped as a god, but he was accepted as a god because he was worshiped by so many, and he was worshiped by so many for nearly committing genocide. This could be seen as incredibly offensive to be kind of people he killed, imagine if a person nearly committed genocide and this granted him worship to such an extent it was seen as a religion, wouldn't you find that religion incredibly offensive, wouldn't the people that that person nearly committed genocide on have a right to speak out about this and ask ti to be stopped so a mass murder wouldn't be seen as a god.

You are confusing Talos with Ysgramor. Talos, also known as Tiber Septim, is the first emperor of the third and current Empire and united all of Tamriel. Ysgramor drove the snow elves underground.

Also lets not forget that Talos is currently literally holding the universe together and is the most popular god in cyrodil.

OK I just read up on it and yes I did get those two mixed up, but I am still siding with the imperials as the reason I was against the storm cloaks is because they are racists, also I don't see the imperials ever stop the worship of talos I mean in their main city in skyrim they have a guy in the city center shouting about the glory of talos and the only thing I have seen was the removal of his shrine in the temple and you are saying that is something it is worth causing a war over.

In their main city in Skyrim? You mean Solitude? Because the only person I can think of who yelled about Talos was in Whiterun, which was the only neutral city.

-.- these mistakes don't make my argument seem very strong to they, I just considered it their main city because I spend so much time there, but my point still stands if a city that is able to remain neutral with a man worshiping talos so openly in their town center and promoting other people to do the same they can't be taking their ban on talos seriously at all.

If the Empire had their way, it wouldn't be neutral at all (that's not a condemnation, by the way). It wasn't like they were letting them stay neutral out of kindness, it was because they didn't want to piss Bulgruuf off enough to make him turn to the Stormcloaks. Given that they don't actually WANT to ban Talos worship, that's how they can get the Thalmor to not force them to attack immediately.

I'm not saying that the Empire is bad, they're in a really tough place with the Thalmor. They didn't want to ban Talos, but they had to to survive. However, just because their bad acts are coming from an understandable place doesn't make their bad acts good.

I am? Where did I say that? I'm siding with the imperials since a united empire is the worlds only hope against the Thalmor.

Long Live the Empire!!


OT: Caesar's Legion, from Fallout: New Vegas. They are ultimately the only hope for that region of the world?.to ensure survival for the human race.

How so? I mean, I really don't see how they're any better than House or NCR. Hell, as I see it, it's a three-way fight between 2 shades of gray and 1 much darker shade of gray.

 

[Stephen Wo]

Snip

That's a topic of some debate, though. Heinlein himself was very left-wing, so the prospect of him writing a non-satirical book praising fascism is just kind of weird. I'd say that it was misinterpreted by right-wingers, which was misinterpreted by left-wingers again. Welcome to the glorious world of politics.

 

[skywolfblue]

I wouldn't say "weren't actually evil" since the things they did were horrible and unforgivable, even though in their heads it may have seemed like the right choice.

Bioshock: Ryan and Lamb both believed with all their hearts in ideals that sounded beautiful on paper. However, the practice and method of those ideals was completely evil. Examples of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

Since no one has mentioned it already, I guess I'll throw the first stone: Illidan

Yes, Illidan always cared for power, he always wanted to be stronger and he wasn't above working demons, what's supposed to be his arch-nemesis (both as a demon hunter and as a Night Elf), to get it. However, he did truly want to help his people, he would let Sargeras remove his eyes and replace them with orbs of fire to get the power to save them. He's definitely in the gray area when it comes to morality but he ultimately wishes the best for his own people. That is, naturally, until they choose that he is either supposed to be locked and caged in a dark hole or dead. The Frozen Throne intro really says it all, he is called betrayer but he was in fact betrayed by his own people. And from there, he just slowly descended into madness until he was put out of his misery.

++ Illidan has to be one of my favorites. I'm a little sad that we had to kill him.

 

[Convoy]

Security Guards in skate.
They are just doing they're job.

 

[Peaco]

I'd say one character that really emphasizes this trait is Ashur from the Fallout 3 DLC The Pitt.

Spoiler

Even before you arrive in the area, you have this concrete idea that all slavers in the Wasteland are evil, especially after the events surrounding Paradise Falls. So, you enter The Pitt with a natural resentment for the slavers, and in turn Ashur, and your first inclination is to aid the slaves. You keep this attitude up until you actually meet the man, and you realize just what the "cure" is. You learn that he enslaved all those people out of necessity and a desire to improve the Wasteland in the long term, and I personally ended up siding with him in the end.

The situation presented in that plot arch was one of the first ones that really struck me with seemingly undecidable decision, and even though the DLC itself wasn't the greatest, Bethesda really made a great moral conflict.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Not sure. None are coming to mind. Though, I guess I'll chime in on the Emipre/Stormcloaks discussion.

If you're not a Nord, then all you have to do is hate the empire for validation. Or, if you're one of the Elves affected, you can always use the Stormcloak rebellion to weaken the Empire, so that you can finish what was put on hold by the White-Gold Concordant. If you're an Imperial...I guess you're just mad at the Empire? And, if you're Argonian or Khajit, then you can side with the Stormcloaks to hope the Elves and the Empire kill each other off.

Though, if you're happy with kowtowing to the just-as-racist-as-the-Nords Thalmor, and only desire to lick their boots until every last boot is clean, then by all means, side with the Empire.

The Empire there isn't evil or malevolent, it's just pathetic. Ulfric Stormcloak was right to want to kick them out, and regain control of Skyrim. Would it be better if he wasn't racist as an old white man living four hours from any major city on a farm? Yes, yes it would. But, it would also make it less interesting.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Bioshock: Ryan and Lamb both believed with all their hearts in ideals that sounded beautiful on paper. However, the practice and method of those ideals was completely evil. Examples of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

Hell, for Ryan, most of his arc was watching him slowly lose those morals without realizing it, like when he (i.e, the government) took over Fontaine Futuristics just because. That's what made him so interesting to me.

Though, if you're happy with kowtowing to the just-as-racist-as-the-Nords Thalmor, and only desire to lick their boots until every last boot is clean, then by all means, side with the Empire.

I agree with everything you said, except for one thing: the Thalmor are not as racist as the nords, they are WAAAAAAAAAY more racist. After all, the Nords just want every non-nord out of Skyrim (and those are only the really hard-line, racist ones. Most make the distinction between the Thalmor and other elves). The Thalmor, on the other hand, want to not just kill every non-Altmer, they want to make it as if they never existed. There's a reason people call them Elven Nazis.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Damn it! I miss the days when things were simple. You had your good guys and your bad guys and that was it, or in the case of video games, you were the good guys they were the bad guys, you had to beat them up. There was none of this wishy washy "he was just misguided" crap.