Battlefield 4's a "New Form of Cultural Aggression", Says Chinese State Media

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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I wonder where they have been when China has started a nuclear war in Fallout

DrRockor said:
Why is it that Homefront is the only modern war game that has used North Korea as the bad guys? We're all in agreement they aren't good and don't really care if they get upset right?
Because noone would take the scanario of "North Korea capable of invading mainland US" seriuosly. China on the other hand? Sure they are capable.

StormTheGate said:
This. Why can't we have a game where we play as the other side and the US are the aggressors? It's not like we haven't completely gone out of our way to go stomp on a country (i.e. Vietnam, Iraq.) I want another game like Spec Ops, one that just makes you feel uncomfortable but you can't seem to take yourself away from it.
I always wanted a game where i could play a Nazi, defending my fatherland from the evil american invaders. Just to turn the tables and be in other sides shoes. I mean if the game was any good it would show that nazis were human too. Yet no company had the balls to do that so far. One tried - it got burried under the legal paper.

JazzJack2 said:
Li Mu said:
You can raise 'student suicides' and I could mention 'US school shootings'.
I could also bring up the mass execution and imprisonment of political opponents/dissidents, the occupation of Tibet, treatment of workers etc
And i could bring up "terrorist" torture and improsinment on your whistleblowers. The occupation of Iraq under false pretense of WMD, ect.
Sorry, you cant win this one.

Metalrocks said:
i went to chine and they treat you like a criminal when crossing the border. checking your passport carefully and still a damn camera in your face and checking every single feature to make sure its really you. still calling over a guy for extra check and asking questions about me what i do here and other personal stuff.
You mean.... like in every other country in the world?

erttheking said:
Can't we just have more games where aliens are invading?
No, the aliens would see them and start complaining, and they are more dangerous than Chinese.
 

JazzJack2

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Full Metal Bolshevik said:
You really want to transform this into a competition? You shouldn't. US has done really, really a lot of shit during the last century. Between the two, I honestly don't think which is worse.
Diddy_Mao said:
Guantanamo Bay, "enhanced interrogation", pretty much the entire Iraq war...Walmart.

You really don't have to look very far to see a whole bunch of human rights violations in our own record books.
TheRealCJ said:
That's some very thin ice you're treading on, especially when you think of things like: Guantanamo Bay, The various CIA operations to overthrow democratic leaders in order to make Bananas cheaper, and the pathetic wages that low-level employees get.
Strazdas said:
And i could bring up "terrorist" torture and improsinment on your whistleblowers. The occupation of Iraq under false pretense of WMD, ect.
Sorry, you cant win this one.
Don't get me wrong I find the hypocrisy and imperialism of western governments just sickening as the next man and I am definitely not some sort of apologist for the dreadful things western governments have done. But I am also not so fixated on american war crimes that I have became an apologist for far worse crimes out of anti american sentiment, and anyone who actually believes that the problems America has caused people is in anyway comparable to the ruthless authoritarianism the people of China have to suffer under is either being melodramatic or is grossly misinformed.
 

Metalrocks

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what surprises me more is that they do have a chinese version of it.
how i know?
i live in hong kong. thats why. they do sell the english version as well. some people told me that its in english just with chinese subtitles and that nothing has been cut or changed.
 

Strazdas

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JazzJack2 said:
Don't get me wrong I find the hypocrisy and imperialism of western governments just sickening as the next man and I am definitely not some sort of apologist for the dreadful things western governments have done. But I am also not so fixated on american war crimes that I have became an apologist for far worse crimes out of anti american sentiment, and anyone who actually believes that the problems America has caused people is in anyway comparable to the ruthless authoritarianism the people of China have to suffer under is either being melodramatic or is grossly misinformed.
Well if you understand the problems of western culture imperialism then you shouldnt really argue agasint portraying them as one and only good guys no matter what in media being propaganda. Because it is. You dont need to ignore Chinas crimes to understand that in this particular case china is right.
As far as who done the worse crimes, if we are talking people - Mao Zedong is up by a margin noone is coming close to. If we are talking nations, Westerners exterminated continents.
 

JazzJack2

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Strazdas said:
Well if you understand the problems of western culture imperialism then you shouldnt really argue agasint portraying them as one and only good guys no matter what in media being propaganda.
Err well it's a good thing I wasn't arguing that then.
 

Strazdas

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JazzJack2 said:
Strazdas said:
Well if you understand the problems of western culture imperialism then you shouldnt really argue agasint portraying them as one and only good guys no matter what in media being propaganda.
Err well it's a good thing I wasn't arguing that then.
yeah, that was my mess up, i meant to say that arguing against their portrayal as always good is reasonable and if you are aware of their problems you should understand why.
 

JazzJack2

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Strazdas said:
JazzJack2 said:
Strazdas said:
Well if you understand the problems of western culture imperialism then you shouldnt really argue agasint portraying them as one and only good guys no matter what in media being propaganda.
Err well it's a good thing I wasn't arguing that then.
yeah, that was my mess up, i meant to say that arguing against their portrayal as always good is reasonable and if you are aware of their problems you should understand why.
No I understand what you meant, I fully agree that the portrayals of modern conflicts in video games is horribly jingoistic and wasn't arguing against that point at all. My original post was addressing someone who was essentially trying to claim the People's Republic of China isn't the iron fisted authoritarian regime that it so clearly is.
 

Strazdas

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JazzJack2 said:
Strazdas said:
JazzJack2 said:
Strazdas said:
Well if you understand the problems of western culture imperialism then you shouldnt really argue agasint portraying them as one and only good guys no matter what in media being propaganda.
Err well it's a good thing I wasn't arguing that then.
yeah, that was my mess up, i meant to say that arguing against their portrayal as always good is reasonable and if you are aware of their problems you should understand why.
No I understand what you meant, I fully agree that the portrayals of modern conflicts in video games is horribly jingoistic and wasn't arguing against that point at all. My original post was addressing someone who was essentially trying to claim the People's Republic of China isn't the iron fisted authoritarian regime that it so clearly is.
No, he was arguing that the regime was not all that different from what it is in the west and is getting closer all the time. Which is true - China is becoming more and more open all the time, and they arent the only ones that do the "iron fist".
 

SadakoMoose

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While the constant presence of American Exceptionalism in video games and Hollywood blockbusters is is increasingly problematic in an increasingly international culture, I can't say that I sympathize with the Chinese military on this subject. At the end of the day, for many Asian countries, China has been just as big of a bad guy as America has. To this day, many people in Vietnam will tell you that a good portion of the war had to do with independence from China.

Their government is often times caught doing the exact same stuff as ours, but on a much bigger scale.
In the US, we may have a problem with Net Neutrality, but at least we don't get hauled off to jail for being re-tweeted too many times. We may have human rights abuses, domestically, that need resolution, but at least we don't have mobile execution vans. Congress might be overly partisan and corrupted by money, but at least we have more than one party to pick from. Blackwater? Try NORINCO. Frankly, this government has no right to complain when people portray it in a negative light. That said, neither does ours.
 

BernardoOne

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Yuuki said:
Sorry what was that Mr Zhengang? I couldn't hear you over your nation-wide internet filter, overall censorship, iron-fisted communist rule, crazy student/worker suicide rates and (ironically) the constant ban on hundreds of videogames.
Ma Zhengang, the vice director for the China Public Diplomacy Association, is quoted, saying that "in order to deal with western preconceptions of China...[Chinese people] need to rise up, share China's voice...[and] resist video game media that puts China in a bad light".
China doesn't need any assistance from videogames to put it in a bad light hahaha.
Holy crap, how can someone be THIS ignorant?
 

Aardvaarkman

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IanDavis said:
Personally, I can't wait until space aliens start to invade modern war shooters. Now that's an enemy we can all rally against.
Hey! What the hell did space aliens ever do to you?
 

Therumancer

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If China wants to improve relations here it can pretty much agree to dismantle it's offensive military forces, as it's not involved in any kind of peacekeeping operations on the level that requires them. Things like aircraft carriers, fighter bombers, and attack submarines are not defensive weapons, especially when combined with China's human rights record which makes the odds of them being taken seriously as peacekeepers unlikely for the moment, and the build up of it's conventional military combined with internal saber rattling about wanting to colonize other countries, something which might be taken with a grain of salt if it wasn't for the fact that China seems eager to cut back on it's internal population control methods, when it already can't take care of the people it has.

Then of course we have to look at China's economic policies where it refuses to acknowledge international patents, copyrights, and IP laws and encourages a lot of nations to do the same. A lot of people like to point fingers at our debts to China, but at the same time they overlook how much money China arguably owes the US and other Western powers as the result of it's "robber economy". One potential economic cause of World War III above and beyond anything else has always been the hypothetical possibility of China calling in it's debt, at which point the western powers will take China's own economic crimes more seriously. China for example arguably owes the US two or three times what we've borrowed from it in lost trade revenues from knockoffs. Viagra knockoffs alone represent literally trillions of dollars in lost revenue to Pfizers which in turn amounts to lost monies to the US and France, especially when looking at sales to the global marketplace.

As China's military has been built up, it's also become increasingly aggressive. Right now "Battlefield 4" is well timed with any anti-Chinese messages given that China has been basically trying to take over Japanese territory now that it has a military force capable of aggression. True, Japan seized the area from China, who in turn had seized it from others during it's own myriad regional wars (China is made up of what was once a lot of different countries). Pretty much every bit of land on the planet was taken away from someone else at one point. In this case however Japan is basically a puppet of the USA, we keep the country under occupation and use it as the base for huge amounts of our own military forces, it's our major foothold into Asia. Despite the SSDF which we let Japan have for diplomatic reasons, the USA could pretty much wipe out every Japanese person in Japan inside of about 20 minutes if it wanted to, that's how much firepower we keep based there. Japan's holdings represent huge strategic value to the US in potentially keeping China and Russia and any plans for invasions from their end in line. Likewise the islands China wants at the moment would represent a huge threat to the US navy if China was to say build bases there or use it to base fleets. This kind of positioning becoming an issue kind of plays havoc with China claiming to be friendly and whining about how they are being portrayed in the media (ultimately trying to play one kind of media against another). This hasn't been issue for decades and now that China has been building offensive military forces, it's suddenly become an issue... uh huh. The "friendly" Chinese have also been out there playing chicken with US ships recently, and honestly it's shown an incredible about of restraint that we haven't started sinking Chinese vessels in these incidents.

Basically when China started acting like the "Evil Empire" and actually putting Russia to shame in some regards, they started getting the same kind of press in fiction.

I'll also point out that one of the big reasons why scenarios like "Red Dawn" are such jokes, whether it's Russia, North Korea, or China (which was replaced by North Korea by political reasons in the remake), is because of the huge amount of forces we maintain in Japan, as well as the US navy controlling tons of little islands and bases all through both oceans, especially in the pacific theater. As long as we aren't dumb about it any force from that area of the world is going to have to first fight our military pretty much on their doorstep, and then pretty much fight for every inch of territory to pretty much get across the world. Just getting a force to the US in any shape to do anything is not going to be easy. Of course a lot of this is dependent on maintaining our control of that territory and infrastructure, if we start surrendering key elements of it like Japanese territory and the like, we actually open up some of these "ridiculous" scenarios. Right now the more buffer space we have from "our" territory between us and Chinese territory is good. Right now I think we've been a too short sighted in peacetime in a lot of our dealings when it comes to our naval control, but that gets into things well beyond the scope of my points here.

At any rate, if China wants to be treated better in fiction, maybe it should start acting better. You know, actually apologize for the recent incidents around Japan, and remove it's naval forces from the region entirely for one. But that won't happen, and well... expect to see more of this.
 

Aardvaarkman

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Cecilo said:
Meh, to all those that say we need an "America is the bad guys" Game. We really don't. The internet does that every single day.

Based on what the internet thinks of America, we are quite literally hell on earth, the worst country to ever exist, possibly the belated reincarnation of Hitler.
I think your internet connection might be broken, because that's not the internet that the rest of us get.
 

Do4600

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Amir Kondori said:
The Chinese are kind of right on this one...
Well it could be worse, we could be constantly flooding the most vital computer networks with violent access attempts many millions of times per minute. I suppose having a company inside our borders with no affiliation to our government making a game about a possible rogue Chinese general is obviously much worse than, for instance, concentrating the entire cyber-warfare resources of the largest nation on earth onto destroying the computer infrastructure of a country. I guess passive aggressive culture is soooo much worse than passive aggressive warfare.
 

Amir Kondori

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Do4600 said:
Amir Kondori said:
The Chinese are kind of right on this one...
Well it could be worse, we could be constantly flooding the most vital computer networks with violent access attempts many millions of times per minute. I suppose having a company inside our borders with no affiliation to our government making a game about a possible rogue Chinese general is obviously much worse than, for instance, concentrating the entire cyber-warfare resources of the largest nation on earth onto destroying the computer infrastructure of a country. I guess passive aggressive culture is soooo much worse than passive aggressive warfare.
Wow, slow your roll there. The US is engaged in "Cyber warfare" and electronic intelligence gathering on a larger scale than the Chinese are. So we can't claim some kind of moral high ground there. Bonus points to you for describing attempts to gain access to networks "violent", kudos on that one.

I am not saying Battlefied 4 shouldn't have been made or that it should have had a different plot. This whole "rogue general" stuff is bullshit though, it is just a way for them to make the Chinese the enemy without seeming blatantly anti-Chinese. It is cashing in on the current fear in the US of a rising Chinese economy, putting China on the path to become a future super power to rival or even surpass the US. I can see the fear lives in you.
 

Tiamat666

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Dec 4, 2007
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Don't worry China. Games like CoD, Battlefield and Homefront only manage to discredit the U.S. with their laughable plots, paranoid and delusional visions of foreign threats and ridiculous bravado about U.S. grandeur overcoming these impossible, overwhelming odds. Not to mention the unbearable pathos and jingoism that is expressed therein.

It takes a German developer to make a game like Spec Ops: The Line
 

r_Chance

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A. It's a game.

B. It wasn't made for a Chinese audience.

C. Take a look at how the Chinese treat dissidents, cultural minorities, how they are colonizing Tibet and other cultural fringe areas with Han Chinese, the Great Firewall of China and their huge internet monitoring presence... and what their neighbors think... and they *are* the enemy. Not so much the Chinese people as their regime. Just because they have embraced a limited form of capitalism to rejuvenate a moribund economy doesn't mean they aren't out to do things you would object to. Forget the trendy USA bad guy bit and look at the PRC. It isn't pretty.
 

Timedraven 117

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Adam Jensen said:
I can't really blame them. Especially since the entire world knows that America is actually the bad guy that keeps invading other countries for oil and other riches under the guise of "protecting the democracy". It's ridiculous. That military and gun culture has got to stop. It's not healthy.
Should probably do a lot more research on that buddy, we don't just invade and leave, or invade and stomp on the poor third world people's face. Honestly just about most US citizen's don't want to be in the role of the World's policemen but we are stuck with it since have the only functional military and the largest Navy to ever exist.

Its not always about Oil either, we helped Kuwait in 1991, and did we get any special shit? Nope. And Saddam had offered us oil for dirt cheap too! 10$ a barrel, cheap right? But when it was time to divy up the oil contracts we got a minority contract share in the oil.

Also riches? Lulwut? We helped Libya at the cost of a billion USD for no monetary gain of our own. We are currently paying 22% of the United Nations funding, and providing a large share of the troops necessary to keep major combat operations afloat. also we maintain the high seas and keep piracy to a minimum, and hold open vital sea ways, provide emergency aide days or even hours after disasters (The phillipeans if you need a example), and all to no cost to other nations. Also having kept the peace in the Balkans (After they had ASKED for our assistance) spending a billion USD yearly to keep it calm, maintain bases in 30+ countries around the world to the countries BENEFIT, and much more.

I know you already got told about some of this stuff, but honestly, its just the media talking, its mostly bullshit. Besides all sides have fair grievances, its just people are to fucking busy crying over those grievances to sort them out like adults. In all honestly, America has enough firepower to turn south Korea into a island, cripple China in every way (But also doing it to ourselves economically) and turn every other person who gives us shit into a smoking crater in the ground without using nuclear weapons. Its why after all Russia had to recently announce that if America used their overwhelming conventional weapon superiority they would use nukes in response.
 

Sarge034

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fi6eka said:
What's the difference between this and an electric chair or lethal injection?Please, I like to see your answer Mr.FREEEDOM.
My answer is that...

1) These people had no trial.
2) They are shooting men, women, and children wholesale.

Don't worry, you too might be cool enough to be called "Mr. Freedom" one day, but it is a big responsibility knowing all these facts.