Before you go defending Phil Fish...

[endnuen]

He has zero diplomatic skills whatsoever and it is his fault alone that people hate on him.
Hell, I watched the first minute, then turned the video off, his smug attitude and complete lack of etiquette makes him come off as the most pretentious dickwad..

There is no witch-hunt on this Fish character, he is just as unlikeable as Robert Mugabe.

Edit; And his Fez game that he is so proud of, it is a giant pile of boring and bad.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

On one hand, Fish didn't just volunteer to be in the front line of criticism and cynicism, he actively went out looking for any live grenade he could and tossed it back before it blew up in his face. For people like Fish who are always shooting first and thinking later, it's bound that you will not always be liked among others, especially if your thoughts are hurt driven rather than profound or witty. He should have seen this perpetual s***storm from miles away and to be forced to retreat in such a pathetic fashion further proves that he was not the man he portrayed himself to be.

On the other hand, threatening the man or his family is never okay, and if Fish was an journalist, TV anchor, or teacher, you bet your a** that the people making threats to him would have been tracked down and sent to jail long ago. You can hate the man all you want, but leave his family out of it. Over time, even the most impenetrable walls will crumble and one too many poundings is all it takes.

 

[Talaris]

If this is how he talks to people on camera, with a huge crowd listening in, imagine what his thought's and opinions on such matters in private. I can't imagine he can get far in life if he keeps that attitude up. And there is no excuse to tell someone to kill themselves; what's worse is that as far as I'm aware he didn't even apologise after everyone found out, he just kept on spewing insults. Those are all indications of a professional arsehole.

 

[endnuen]

Robert Mugabe.

He has some diplomatic tact.

Yeah, but I did say he was just as unlikeable, not that he was as.

 

[Vigormortis]

That's pretty much it though, the guy is a massive tit and seeing him throw a huge hissy fit because someone else acted like a massive tit towards him is what many would call Just Desserts.

Were you trying to quote me or michael87cn? You kinda borked your post so it's hard to tell.

I'm going to assume you were attempting to quote me and go from there.

So what if Fish is a "massive tit"? Does him making a comment really warrant months of endless vitriol and excessively cruel insults from thousands of gamers on the internet? And hell, not even just the gamers but asshole gaming "journalists" like Marcus Beer. Is it really a fair retort for people to basically be going on a witch hunt, screaming for blood?

And that hissy fit? That came on the back of months of continuous and incredibly cruel personal attacks. Frankly, I'm amazed it took this long to break the man.

I think people need to calm the fuck down. If you don't like the man, then do the mature thing and just ignore him. Harassing, brow-beating, and threatening him on a daily basis just makes gamers behavior look far worse than Fishs.

I suppose it can't be helped that some people will be alright with someone acting completely out of line in a professional environment, to say nothing of being vile and egotistical.

What gets me is that some people honestly think it's alright for the guy to cry foul play, as if him doing the exact same to others just doesn't count because REASONS.

But then everyone's opinions are different, this is basic understanding and really isn't what the entire point is about.

P.S.: And yes, the video I posted really is nothing but the tip of the iceberg.

Oh, I see. So anyone who doesn't immediately jump on the hate-train to crush what little remains of Fishs sanity is an idiot, right? I mean, how could anyone not hate the man with every fiber of their being?!

Or maybe some of us have looked into this whole fiasco objectively, rather than subjectively, and realized that the guy doesn't deserve even a small fraction of the hate he's been receiving for months and months.

This is not to say Fish is a saint. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

But Jesus-jumped-up-Christ, people....dial back the hate a bit, yeah? This has gotten way out of hand.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Can someone please show me when in history did honesty tend to include being a dick?

First off, to the 'they fucking suck' part of it, the man obviously has troubles with english. And I'm not going to say hold his hand because he's a sensitive little flower. however, there are MANY things that don't translate well between languages. Even if you think it's ok to say a word like that when describing a group of people's actions (quick fun game, substitute 'Japanese game designers' with a group that you affiliate with and see if the word 'suck' is as innocent as you think! Fun for all!), the description of the word that the Japanese fellow might have received for 'suck' might be harsher than we think. I'd even bet money on it, because that man's face fell really quickly.

Also, while someone is helping me understand when did honesty include being a dick, can someone tell me why being honest also tends to mean 'saying something I agree with'

And who gets to decide when the need for thick skin is just too much and sometimes you get to throw everyone under the bus because I'm a special little flower and I deserve respect while I don't have to show any for others.

This is personally how I go about things. I give respect where respect is given. All I've ever seen Fish do was laud his accomplishments, and how great he is. Great. He's a douche to me. Beer called Blow and him out for being 'Tosspot' Hipsters for not wanting to respond to media hype about the One's reversal. Great. Beer is a douche to me.

My point is this. You can't go on behaving how you want and say you're being honest, but expect everyone to treat you like you want to be treated. Your honesty might be rude to others. You'll say deal, it's honesty. What if people are honest that you're a fucking asshat? Do you run off and take your ball? Apparently you do, and you have fans supporting you.

So what if Fish is a "massive tit"? Does him making a comment really warrant months of endless vitriol and excessively cruel insults from thousands of gamers on the internet? And hell, not even just the gamers but asshole gaming "journalists" like Marcus Beer. Is it really a fair retort for people to basically be going on a witch hunt, screaming for blood?

And that hissy fit? That came on the back of months of continuous and incredibly cruel personal attacks. Frankly, I'm amazed it took this long to break the man.

I think people need to calm the fuck down. If you don't like the man, then do the mature thing and just ignore him. Harassing, brow-beating, and threatening him on a daily basis just makes gamers behavior look far worse than Fishs.

I'll be honest, yes. Yes if he is a massive tit, he deserves whatever he gets.

I don't use twitter. There's a reason for that. Because I consider my opinions to be valid but only worth sharing when I find someone that I feel I can be open to. If they disagree with that opinion, there's a chance I could be butthurt. I'm human. It happens. but I'd like to discuss and see where the difference of opinion stems from.

I also present my self in the best way to actually communicate information. If you come off aggressive, people will get defensive. That's human nature. No one listens when they are defensive. If I feel like my opinions are worth speaking, they are worth taking the five seconds to figure out how to express it in a manner where people will respond to my ideas, and not how I came off.

If I did use twitter, and I called out people 'honestly' using insults, names, and diatribes to make my point, I should be very well prepared for people to have opinions and responses mirroring my tone. I shouldn't be confused and go 'Oh, wait up. Why are you being like that? I was just using honesty'.

There is a difference saying 'The game market that I've seen lately hasn't really given anything for me to go on' and 'It fucking sucks'. One tells me how you feel and gives me insight on what you mean in the first sentence. The other is sensationalistic and offers nothing but glibness.

I do not understand why people try to run to the defense of people who are crass and rude when they are expressing themselves and use the 'Honesty' shield. It's a weird get out of jail free card that you can be counterculture and rude and not have to suffer any repercussions.

I do not have access to all of what Fish has said all his life. The media blurbs I do ingest, they seem to paint Fish in the dickish-honesty fad that's sweeping all nations. I frankly do not see where one person is being blunt (Fish) and one person is attacking (Beer). They are both speaking their mind, they are both calling names and whining... So where do you find the victim in this?

 

[Dangit2019]

Well, in case that video ever does get taken down, I'm downloading it now. His acts of douchebaggery will not be hidden on my watch.

Rock on, masked avenger of the night. Can't let that independent game developer get away with, whatever it is you're championing against.

Someone can't detect satire.

 

[Headsprouter]

Alright, his response had me pissed off, but then when the other guy tried to explain it, now, I hope I don't get hate for this, but I know what he means.

I recently started playing MH3U, the game spends too much time telling, not enough time showing. The interface is difficult. You get stunned. Jesus Christ, stunning(not paralysis, that's okay, in moderation) should have been gone since Street Fighter 2, Capcom. And my character should eat the Sushi, and be done with it, the way he spends 3 seconds rubbing his stomach was funny the first time, but eat the sushi, and be done with it. Don't make my hunter stand there like a dumbass. That makes ME feel like a dumbass. (But I'm loving the game, it's awesome)

And I wish there was a "Don't treat me like a 3 year old" setting in games such as Pokemon, and like that guy said, Zelda.

But this still stands, Phil Fish was a massive egotistical dick about it, and probably would have loved if it had been left as "Lol, Japs can't make video games. I made one good game, therefore I know EVERYTHING about video games and their styles. U guyz r noobz. Go kill urself."

Friggin' douche.

But of course, these issues do not apply to ALL Japanese games, telling the guy they suck in general...Jesus Christ what an arrogant fuck. I still can't get over that tantrum that ended Fez 2. Imagine somebody said what he said in the OP's video to him? I bet he'd have stormed out of the room, then called it a "lifeless husk" without him within it. It'd definetly be a lot more empty without his ego. maybe I'm getting too involved here, but I'm on a roll.

Can someone please show me when in history did honesty tend to include being a dick?

There's honesty, bluntness, constructive criticism and then being an asshole. Phil got the whole demeanour of constructive criticism wrong, therefore, he falls in to the "asshole" category. Y'see, I agree, speaking less generally in terms of "all Japanese developers, but he spoke my feelings in a horrible, insensitive way.

People have feelings, you mentioned that guy'd face dropping, the key to criticism is to avoid that. Even so, he was asking what inspired him, he should have started with "Not much in terms of gameplay, because..." or "Your gameplay had me thinking, 'What's missing in games today?'", in reference to the discovery aspect that made Fez shine.

Fish needed to say "Keep what makes your games YOUR GAMES, but maybe be less bureaucratic in how you design your levels, tutorials and HUD. Spread your wings more. Maybe you can take that as inspiration from Fez to improve your games as your games inspired me to make Fez."

Fish needs to be a nicer person.

As an American I expect people to be honest regardless of whether it hurts my feelings. Sometimes you need to be told that you suck and here is why and here is how you can get better.

I believe that people are individuals and that has been shown to swing one of two ways. Either the person will think "I'll show him, I'll get better!" or they'll think "Well, it's pointless to go on. I suck at this.", so you see it can be a risky thing being so brutally honest.

The only time I'd say be brutally honest is in cases like Phil Fish, where the guy needs to get over himself and do a bit of ego-shrinking.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Ugh.

That movie was a horrible look at the indie gaming scene. That movie was more of a warning to never work with Microsoft than it was a movie about the conception of indie games. That movie was also known for throwing Phil Fish's partner under the bus by stating that he asked not to be in the movie. It was found that Jason DeGroot (did the music for Fez and Dyad) was asked not to appear in the film due to the dispute between himself and Phil Fish. They also didn't include any of DeGroot's side of the story at all to make Fish's overall story more sympathetic.

A few things:
1. Every documentary has a story to tell, the fact that they chose to make him look more sympathetic doesn't mean that the story they're telling is a lie.
2. There's a difference between "not asked to participate" and "asked not to participate". From what I can see the truth is the former, not the latter as you're trying to spin it.

1. Every documentary has a story yes, but when you omit large portions of the story to tailor a point it makes the story look dishonest. And the fact they went out of their way to make Phil Fish's story means that the documentary is disingenuous. It means that the creators of the documentary had predetermined what the movie's message was going to be before it was filmed rather than have the story organically form.

The film wasn't a good documentary because it didn't answer its own question: how does an indie game get made? It instead goes into the struggle of waiting for Microsoft to release their games.

2.http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/229538-indie-game-the-movie-s-new-credits-put-end-to-conflict/indie2-620x.jpg/[img]
The controversy surrounding the credits came about the day the movie was released. It served to make Phil Fish look like his ex business partner was screwing over Phil Fish for no reason. We never got both sides of the story because the creators chose not to even bother with looking at the other side. Instead what we got was Phil Fish ranting about Jason DeGroot while clearly not telling the whole story.

They got called out by not only by Jason Degroot, but by Shawn McGrath (creator of Dyad) for the false claims made in the film by Fish and the unsavoury actions of the film creators.


[quote]I don't care what story the the movie is trying to tell, when I say he looks like a regular guy it's because I'm watching him on screen. Just like he's a regular guy in this GDC panel.[/quote]

That's not really a good excuse for Phil Fish's actions. Yes, he's a regular guy, as am I. Does that mean I'm immune to being called an asshole when I'm acting like one? Nope. Same goes for Phil Fish.

Regular guys can be dicks too. Its not some special position reserved for the Bobby Koticks of the gaming world. Phil Fish's reputation as gaming's most unlikeable man-child is well earned. And its not just they way he acts in he OPs video that leads people to that conclusion.

Look up his pathetic flip flop on the PC. He started off by bashing the PC platform and saying he'd never release Fez on it due to him wanting to sell to a bigger market. He ended by releasing Fez on the PC because he (like every other indie developer ever...) found that the bigger market was on the PC due to it being a more open platform.

Then him going on to tell people to buy Fez from the Humble Bundle instead of Steam because he'd get more money that way. He wasn't a fan of Steam's 30% cut, so he complained about it on Twitter.

Now if you think that a "regular guy" should act in this pompous of a manner so constantly then more power to you.

 

[lord canti]

I don't care whether or not he has opinions. However it is the way he states his opinion that I have a problem with. Contrary to popular belief you don't have to be a complete ass to be outspoken or opnionated.

 

[Caiphus]

Who was the well spoken man sitting to the right of the lectern though? The one who looks suspiciously like Gabe from Penny Arcade.

That's J Blow, he made Braid. I wouldn't say he looks all that much like Gabe though.

Ah, thanks. Need to catch up on my indie devs then

And you don't think so? I'll google them

Spoiler: Go go gadget image search!

Eh, maybe only a little. The hair and glasses do it a bit. He just reminded me of him. Bleh.

 

[Deacon Cole]

Well, in case that video ever does get taken down, I'm downloading it now. His acts of douchebaggery will not be hidden on my watch.

Rock on, masked avenger of the night. Can't let that independent game developer get away with, whatever it is you're championing against.

Someone can't detect satire.

Or there are way too many people on the internet who would say such a thing sincerely for satire to work.