Bethesda VP: Developing For PC is a "Headache"

[Vivi22]

2 (3 if you have to count Intel) gaming GPU makers, instead of the 5 or 6 previously, each with their own language to talk to their cards.

Not to mention that on the programming end the developer only has two API's (Direct X and Open GL) to work with, and can easily find out what cards support what version of each. And with things like the Steam hardware survey it's not hard to figure out what most of the market is capable of running. Figure out what you want to do with the graphics in the game and target the minimum level and above that let's you do that, or decide how much of the market you're willing to cut out and develop with that in mind.

You could argue that this is still more complicated than developing for consoles, but with consoles you're now dealing with multiple API's if you do a multiplatform title, as well as all of the optimization needed to get games on the 360 and PS3 running at nearly the level that a modern PC can handle. And optimizing for each machine is also going to be completely different.

I agree to some extent that developers exaggerate a bit about how difficult it is to develop for PC. There certainly is more hardware to deal with but the tradeoff is having to know the console hardware inside and out and constantly find ways to squeeze more out of it.

 

[Samurai Silhouette]

Does no one realize the Xbox is just as easy to pirate for? The whole "cry for us, PC games might be pirated" comes off as a completely ignorant statement.

Aside from Gears of War 3, what other console games were leaked early this year? I swear there were others. I'm not calling you out or anything, I really want to know.

Edit: So far it's CoD, Skyrim, Gears of war 3, Killzone 3, Deus Ex, Crysis, Batman (Maybe).

Leaked =/= pirated

Unfortunately every 360 game can be pirated.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Leaked =/= pirated

Unfortunately every 360 game can be pirated.

I'm well aware of that, it should just show that PC games aren't the entire problem like devs would like us to believe.

 

[Baresark]

I have seen Xbox pirating first hand. It's annoying because, as people don't want to believe, it's not hard. Also, people who pirate games don't give a damn about a banned Xbox. Only honest people care about that. The fact is,the majority of releases from the last year or so have all leaked early on the consoles. I have seen some PC stuff show up early, but usually there is no crack for that stuff.

Is it rampant on the PC? You bet. Is it rampant on the consoles? Hell yeah it is. As it stands, since no one knows how much any game has actually been pirated, no one can safely say it happens more on the PC than the PS3/360/Wii. It's just an excuse these people like to use. I mean, when was the last time Bethesda released a game that wasn't developed for the console first? If anything, it's hard because they have teams devoted to the consoles, and teams only for porting to the PC. That is harder than programming for the PC from the ground up. As people fail to see, the issue is not different graphic cards or different hardware configuration. That stuff can be problematic, but by and large a company simply has to know how to program for DirectX and OpenGL. And then they use the features they wish to use from those options.

Also, not to harp on Bethesda (even though they are the ones making this stupid statement this time), but I recall the PC version of New Vegas being playable on release, and the consoles being completely broken. Good job working on your primary platform.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I have seen Xbox pirating first hand. It's annoying because, as people don't want to believe, it's not hard. Also, people who pirate games don't give a damn about a banned Xbox.

Heh... some guys I know have their Multiplayer Xboxs for when they want some online play and their softmodded Xboxs for everything else, so unless there's some game they really want to use for multiplayer they mostly pirate everything. Not even like they paid much for their 'never take online' xboxs either, they just bought banned ones for bugger all (I think the most any of them paid was like AU$80) and had a mate who softmods consoles as a backyard business do the firmware hacks.

The worst part was I accidentally gave them the idea of having a second xbox that was softmodded when I mentioned if I was going to get a console I'd buy a cheap as fuck banned console because I don't give a shit about online gaming. Their fucking eyes lit up. I never take that as a good sign at the pub.

As it stands, since no one knows how much any game has actually been pirated, no one can safely say it happens more on the PC than the PS3/360/Wii.

If you read the estimations that include handhelds you see numbers that put the combined PC and home console piracy numbers to shame.

 

[Gather]

Wait, what was the issue with RAGE? From what I understood it was an entire companies range of graphic cards that had the problem because they had an unreleased, heavily edited, driver for their own testing but didn't test on the "consumer" driver to see what it would look like (And it wasn't an "obscure" collection of hardware that made the problem).

If amateur modders for fallout 3, oblivion can make patches and far better mods for the game than the creators then you know something is wrong.

I felt the need to quote this for truth. Modders fixed every bug in Stalker and upgraded it.

I kinda wish that Bethesda would suck it up and actually make the unofficial patches an official patch for the consoles. To "pay" the guys who made those fixes I'm sure they would be ecstatic if they offered to update the credit reel to include their names in the "Special Thanks" section (And the fact that their work has been officially recognized and permanently put into the game)

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Yeah, because piracy is totally the reason why games don't churn out a profit on the PC.

 

[Magicman10893]

Makes sense. A console is a console. You know exactly what makes it tick and what it's limitations are.

Then there are people who literally build their PC from scratch. Hell, Steam kept spamming me with pop-ups saying 'WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR VIDEO CARD IS, BUT IT'S PROBABLY SHIT. WE JUST DON'T KNOW. STOP PLAYING OUR GAMES.'

I have the same problem, kind of. I haven't bought anything off Steam yet or really even used it, but my laptop has Intel HD graphics card that has like 1.5GB Video RAM and can run most games I have on max settings, but when I go to that website that checks your hardware to see if you can play it they never say I can because they don't recognize my video card. It said I couldn't play Sims 2 on MINIMUM settings because of my video card only, then I look at the details and it meets literally every requirement (video RAM, speed, what-the-hell-ever) for MAX settings.

So far the only game I've tried playing that didn't work on Max was Unreal 3.

 

[RA92]

Makes absolute sense! I mean, with the consoles' standardized hardware, now Bethesda is able to make bug-free games on all platforms except for the PC!

Oh wait, no they don't, and gamers usually end up using community-made patches because modders and their ilks are demigods who can program for 2 whole different APIs.

 

[robandall]

It's easy to pirate on the 360 - Christ I often see 360 versions of games available of torrent sites faster than the PC version! Yep, it can result in your machine getting banned from XBL but it's not ridiculous to think that the sort of gamer who will buy a "life killer" like Skyrim is less likely to be heavily reliant on multiplayer. Out of the core console gamers I know - just under half of them have a massive collection of pirated games running on their consoles.

Before the flaming starts I buy my 360 games as I like MP (my laptop won't play anything more demanding than Dark Crusade - which I own - so it's not an issue).

The varied hardware side of the argument is perfectly valid however.

Does no one realize the Xbox is just as easy to pirate for?

Evidently not, not even the pirates are aware of that as the numbers consistently prove.

Soon.

You either have the game or tons of viruses. Or both. Or really nasty porn. Or all three.

Hopefully!

 

[Phishfood]

Dear bethesda.

If I built a road that was only wide enough to allow motorcycles, I would have no reason to be suprised when all the car drivers hate it.

If you design a game that DEPENDS on a particular graphics driver you have to expect people to be unhappy. There is a reason valve conduct a hardware survey through steam. They take this data and make games for the PCs people HAVE not the PCs valve WISHES they had.

Duh.

 

[Smooth Operator]

And that is why you should reach out to existing solid engines (Cryengine) and put your dev time into the actual game build.

But no you spend gobs of money on building new engines that ofcourse will always bring new issues, and the end product is a lacking game on a buggy engine... Rage

 

[harvz]

yes, developing for pc's is a headache (im not even going to touch the 'pirating' comment) but there is a very easy solution...modders, seriously the most dedicated people in the world, heres a solution, give certain modders/groups access to the source (in case of a leak, make sure you leave a way of identifying who's copy it is), give them a little credit in the credits and you can pretty much guarantee that your game will end up extremely bug free with 0 effort and for free.

 

[Callate]

...He's going to go and make me feel guilty I haven't purchased Skyrim for PC yet, isn't he.

I will, I will, I promise... It's just going to be a while... Please don't stop developing cool RPGs for the PC...

 

[Aprilgold]

Thats why you develop with common video cards instead of bitching about how hard it is. Seriously, design the game for a very much standard video card that is commonly bought, or make the game so easy to run on any computer, then just make different video options for those above and below the standard.

But your right, keep catering to consoles because their easier to design, graphically for, since, you know, we all buy games just to see pretty pictures. [Sarcasm Detected, do you need help removing the threat?]
*clicks no*

Skyrim on the PC is a fucking atrocity. It looks horrible, textures are really low quality (especially the snow, when I get to it, I'll provide screenies), alot of stretching to shit, or sometimes they're plain gone. This is when it comes to looks.

The controls? Why is this even fucking released on the PC? The mouse is barely integrated at all, and it makes me want to kill kittens, there are no god damn hotkeys either, from what I can see. The saddest part is that even this layout could have worked with minimal changes, but nope, they didn't spend a week on the PC version by the looks of it.

For shame, Bethesda, and fuck you. And then you come out with statements like these.

Edit for clarification: The reason for my rant is that they've obviously not spent an even acceptable time on the PC version and that's why it's so half baked. When the controls are this fucked up, it's obvious the "hardware diversity" isn't what's causing practically any of the problems.

Thats the second person to give this game critism today. My problem is that they keep building new engines, but since this seems to be a thing for them, WE BUILD A ENGINE, SELL IT, INFINITE MONEY!

The hype surrounding such a large amount of the game was DRAGONS! Once again, they are pushign what the Xbox can do, since thats what they built the game natively on. So obviously its going to be the most playable, but since the hardware for the console is so old, they have to build the engine to push the limits with the game not straining on the console itself.