Biden v. Trump Election Mega Thread

Who will win the election?

  • SleepyJoe

    Votes: 15 30.0%
  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 9 18.0%
  • It doesn't matter who wins, because we will all lose in some way.

    Votes: 26 52.0%

  • Total voters
    50
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Gergar12

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Trump should resign because he killed 200,000 americans due to Covid.
Merkel should also resign because that's about the same number of deaths in Europe. Together with every other European head-of-state.
I would agree that if Trump resigns, Merkel, the Czech PM or president, Macron, and Bojo, along with Putin do so as well. Most of these leaders are pro-China anyway, I would also add Pope Francis.
 

Iron

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I would agree that if Trump resigns, Merkel, the Czech PM or president, Macron, and Bojo, along with Putin do so as well. Most of these leaders are pro-China anyway, I would also add Pope Francis.
Who isn't pro-china these days
 

Gergar12

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In the thread a few pages back: this is why we didn't bring up China around the Chinese and Taiwanese kids in high school. And especially why we didn't bring up the question of Taiwanese independence.
On one hand, you have anti-CCP Chinese Refugees and immigrants(I am one), Taiwanese Citizens, Hong Kongers, Tibetians, and Ugyur Muslims along with Falun Gong Protesters, on the other side you have CCP shills, pro-CCP immigrants, and in the middle people who don't care, and just want to get on with their lives.
 

Gergar12

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Who isn't pro-china these days
The modern resistance, the modern resistance against China.

Also a handful of island nations, most of the western world's normal citizens, the blue-team in the US, the US Senate(Most of it anyway), India, Taiwan, Japan, Australia, the US military(with some exceptions), offensive realists, some parts of both the democratic and republican parties with more republicans than democrats.


Edit: also Vietnam, and Indonesia.

Edit: The majority of Hong Kongers, and the people I mentioned in a previous post.
 

Iron

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The modern resistance, the modern resistance against China.

Also a handful of island nations, most of the western world's normal citizens, the blue-team in the US, the US Senate(Most of it anyway), India, Taiwan, Japan, Australia, the US military(with some exceptions), offensive realists, some parts of both the democratic and republican parties with more republicans than democrats.


Edit: also Vietnam, and Indonesia.

Edit: The majority of Hong Kongers, and the people I mentioned in a previous post.
Vietnam made kicking China's ass a part of its national heritage. The rest are mostly sore they lost.
 

SilentPony

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It's hard to nail down exactly what claims he's making, because he (and Giuliani) often just rattle off numbers and soundbites without providing any actual details, dates, or evidence. I suppose that's par for the course in a Presidential debate and both candidates kinda did it yesterday. I think you might be mixing up two separate accusations Trump & Giuliani have made: the first is that Biden received 1.5 billion from China, and the second is that he received 3.5 million from Russia.

Both of the claims are focused on money received by an investment group called Rosemont Seneca Thornton (I hate investment company names). RST was formed of two investment firms, 'Rosemont Seneca' and 'Thornton'; Hunter Biden was a co-founder of 'Rosemont Seneca'.

In the case of the 3.5 million from Russia, that's based on a "consultancy fee" of 3.5 million dug up by Senate Republicans which was supposedly paid by a Russian businesswoman (and the ex-Mayor of Moscow's widow) to RST. The report the Senators compiled didn't provide any detail beyond that it happened.

The 1.5 billion is a bit sillier. In 2013, RST combined with a Chinese "equity fund", Bohai Capital, and formed BHR. Hunter Biden (as co-founder of one of the three firms that make up BHR) was named to its Board of Directors. The 1.5 billion comes from a fundraising target they posted; it's not actually money given to Hunter, or Joe, or anyone else.

I hope you appreciate this, I gave myself a minor headache trying to untangle this finance-world nonsense.
Okay that's much more detailed, but the accusation was that Joe Biden took the money, and Joe was "the big guy". But this seems like business deals his son had. None of this seems to tie back into Joe specifically, which was the accusation.
 

Tireseas

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I would be astonished if the poll averages are more than 2% off nationally and probably they'll be closer to 1% off. A little more leeway for individual states. Given that Biden is "safe" (over 5% ahead) in enough states to win outright, the odds look exceedingly bad for Trump, as it is so implausible that the polls are that far wrong.

We know that due to voter distribution and electoral college votes by state, Trump has an advantage by being able to take the key swing states despite a lower national vote, but that's estimated in the region of 3% (national). Therefore I suspect Trump would need to chop Biden's lead to under 5 points nationally to be properly competitive and have a decent shot at snatching enough swing states with very narrow margins. He's currently ~10% down and has been no better than ~7% down for months. The consistency of the margin between the two over the campaign period is possibly unprecedented: this suggests to me most voters have strong feelings and have all but made their minds up already, so would be very hard to shift by now.

I expect Trump will pick up some Republican doubters at the end, who as the crunch point arrives give in to their party hearts despite their head's despair with Trump himself, and there will be a percent or two tightening in the polls right towards the end.
I think the bigger question is not whether Republicans will defect, but, rather, whether they show up at all. Setting aside Trump's base, moderate conservatives and center-right voters who are less politically engaged may be turned off enough to not show up at the polls or obtain and return mail ballots (or submit them in time to get them in the mail early enough). This could have knock-on effects down the ballot. While safe GOP seats are unlikely shift, a reduced turnout could shift several seats down ballot in key areas.
 

Tireseas

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As a side note, for anyone trying to decipher some of the weirder accusations lobbed by the president last night, this article (published before the debate), may help understand where it's coming from:
 

tstorm823

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Okay that's much more detailed, but the accusation was that Joe Biden took the money, and Joe was "the big guy". But this seems like business deals his son had. None of this seems to tie back into Joe specifically, which was the accusation.
The "big guy" part comes out of the Hunter Biden laptop emails. In emails related to the company working in China, it says that 10% was to be reserved for "the big guy". A man who is in that email chain has come forward to supposedly confirm that "the big guy" referenced there was Joe Biden, rather than the person referred to as "JB", which was supposedly Joe Biden's brother, Jim.

I retain the right to believe the Hunter Biden laptop is still all a ridiculous setup, because I don't want something that dumb to be true, but with a guy from the emails who supposedly worked with Hunter coming forward and making personal, first-hand allegations, some Biden is going to have to address this.
 

Gergar12

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Technically weebs have good reason to be pro-China. Their video games aren't influenced by SJWs due to China being a patriarchal society. For example Genshin Impact.

Edit: The problem is that old conservatives rule the CCP, and if they feel like it, they will just outright ban all porn, and video games for no reason.
 

SilentPony

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The "big guy" part comes out of the Hunter Biden laptop emails. In emails related to the company working in China, it says that 10% was to be reserved for "the big guy". A man who is in that email chain has come forward to supposedly confirm that "the big guy" referenced there was Joe Biden, rather than the person referred to as "JB", which was supposedly Joe Biden's brother, Jim.

I retain the right to believe the Hunter Biden laptop is still all a ridiculous setup, because I don't want something that dumb to be true, but with a guy from the emails who supposedly worked with Hunter coming forward and making personal, first-hand allegations, some Biden is going to have to address this.
Oh its a reference to those emails. Yeah I'm pretty sure those were faked, especially considering what's being reported, the Giuliani bought them from Ukraine for 5mil and put them on a laptop to be found.
 

tstorm823

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So that video ends saying "there's no evidence of wrongdoing by either Biden."

To go on a tangent, I'm pretty sure every sentence in the media that begins "there's no evidence" is a lie. Just, like, every time. Like, of course there's evidence. There's evidence of everything. I am by no means suggesting the stuff about Hunter Biden is necessarily true, but there's clearly evidence of it. Whether that evidence is real, or if it is whether it constitutes proof are completely different questions, but the evidence very much exists. Whenever I hear "there is no evidence" of something, what I actually hear is "don't look into that, just trust us, it doesn't exist, we would never lie to you so just don't bother looking." Like, the media loves reciting that there is no evidence of voter fraud, and I'm like "go to hell". Because of course there's evidence of voter fraud. There is voter fraud. You can certainly say there doesn't seem to be voter fraud at any scale that could meaningfully impact major elections. But nope, apparently the truth is insufficient, there can't be any evidence. None.

Oh its a reference to those emails. Yeah I'm pretty sure those were faked, especially considering what's being reported, the Giuliani bought them from Ukraine for 5mil and put them on a laptop to be found.
Well, anonymous sources claim they were being sold in Ukraine, and cannot verify if they're even the same information. Named sources are saying they were involved in the emails and they are authentic. I trust one of those more than the other.

Like, someone in Ukraine having all of Hunter Biden's emails and selling them to Giuliani at the time for $5 million without anyone noticing all while an impeachment over Giuliani investigating Hunter Biden in Ukraine was actively going on, and it didn't come up at the time? That's even dumber than the repair shop story.
 

lil devils x

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Trump should resign because he killed 200,000 americans due to Covid.
Merkel should also resign because that's about the same number of deaths in Europe. Together with every other European head-of-state.
That makes no sense. Angela Merkel isn't the President of Europe. LMAO! She is the chancellor of Germany. She is responsible for her response for Germany. She does not control other European Nations response. Europe is not a country. Trump is the president of the United States. US states are not independent nations, and Trump has a constitutional duty as president to protect and maintain the well being of the citizens of the United States. Trying to compare the two is asinine. Hold each of their own nations leaders accountable for their own countries and quit trying to scapegoat Merkel for taking care of her own nation like she was supposed to.

Merkel isn't even in charge of the EU, Ursula von der Leyen is. If you want to address the EU response talk to Ursula von der Leyen not, Merkel. Just because they are both German women does not mean they are the same person.
 

lil devils x

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So that video ends saying "there's no evidence of wrongdoing by either Biden."

To go on a tangent, I'm pretty sure every sentence in the media that begins "there's no evidence" is a lie. Just, like, every time. Like, of course there's evidence. There's evidence of everything. I am by no means suggesting the stuff about Hunter Biden is necessarily true, but there's clearly evidence of it. Whether that evidence is real, or if it is whether it constitutes proof are completely different questions, but the evidence very much exists. Whenever I hear "there is no evidence" of something, what I actually hear is "don't look into that, just trust us, it doesn't exist, we would never lie to you so just don't bother looking." Like, the media loves reciting that there is no evidence of voter fraud, and I'm like "go to hell". Because of course there's evidence of voter fraud. There is voter fraud. You can certainly say there doesn't seem to be voter fraud at any scale that could meaningfully impact major elections. But nope, apparently the truth is insufficient, there can't be any evidence. None.


Well, anonymous sources claim they were being sold in Ukraine, and cannot verify if they're even the same information. Named sources are saying they were involved in the emails and they are authentic. I trust one of those more than the other.

Like, someone in Ukraine having all of Hunter Biden's emails and selling them to Giuliani at the time for $5 million without anyone noticing all while an impeachment over Giuliani investigating Hunter Biden in Ukraine was actively going on, and it didn't come up at the time? That's even dumber than the repair shop story.
Bullshit. There isn't evidence. The lie is the constant barrage of misinformation, conspiracy, and rumors pouring out of the GOP.
 

Gergar12

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That makes no sense. Angela Merkel isn't the President of Europe. LMAO! She is the chancellor of Germany. She is responsible for her response for Germany. She does not control other European Nations response. Europe is not a country. Trump is the president of the United States. US states are not independent nations, and Trump has a constitutional duty as president to protect and maintain the well being of the citizens of the United States. Trying to compare the two is asinine. Hold each of their own nations leaders accountable for their own countries and quit trying to scapegoat Merkel for taking care of her own nation like she was supposed to.

Merkel isn't even in charge of the EU, Ursula von der Leyen is. If you want to address the EU response talk to Ursula von der Leyen not, Merkel. Just because they are both German women does not mean they are the same person.
Merkel literally deported a Palestinian-German Child who cried on live TV and spoke fluent German.

Edit: source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33555619
 
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lil devils x

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Merkel literally deported a Palestinian-German Child we cried on live TV and spoke fluent German.
She personally made the decision or ordered it to happen or was that something that just happened while she was chancellor? Things happen while Trump is president that he personally had no hand in, but there is no point in discussing that when there is so much more that Trump DID personally have a hand in due to his specific policy changes and orders to do so.

There is a huge difference between something they had a say in vs something they didn't. Merkel has been more welcoming to immigrants than just about any leader there is.

Trump ordered his administration to break the law because he wanted to punish people for coming to the US. Merkel did no such thing.

 

Gergar12

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She personally made the decision or ordered it to happen or was that something that just happened while she was chancellor? Things happen while Trump is president that he personally had no hand in, but there is no point in discussing that when there is so much more that Trump DID personally have a hand in due to his specific policy changes and orders to do so.

There is a huge difference between something they had a say in vs something they didn't. Merkel has been more welcoming to immigrants than just about any leader there is.
I am pretty sure Sweden, and even Obama-US were more welcoming to refugees, and immigrants.

And Merkel could get her CDU/CSU allies to reverse any law they like, while Trump only had a super-majority for two years.

And it's a dumb policy, regardless, the child literally spoke German, and Merkel the tough leader couldn't do anything about it???

'At a forum for young people, Mrs. Merkel tells the Palestinian girl, Reem, that not all migrants can stay in Germany, and "some will have to go home". '

So it's bad when Trump deports people, but good when Merkel does it??? Deported to a country where she may not even speak the language, that sound familiar to you.

For the record, I am opposed to Trump's immigration policy, and I want Stephen Miller fired, but I am calling out balls, and strikes.
 

lil devils x

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I am pretty sure Sweden, and even Obama-US were more welcoming to refugees, and immigrants.

And Merkel could get her CDU/CSU allies to reverse any law they like, while Trump only had a super-majority for two years.

And it's a dumb policy, regardless, the child literally spoke German, and Merkel the tough leader couldn't do anything about it???

'At a forum for young people, Mrs. Merkel tells the Palestinian girl, Reem, that not all migrants can stay in Germany, and "some will have to go home". '

So it's bad when Trump deports people, but good when Merkel does it??? Deported to a country where she may not even speak the language, that sound familiar to you.

For the record, I am opposed to Trump's immigration policy, and I want Stephen Miller fired, but I am calling out balls, and strikes.
You have selective memory here?


Merkel has been constantly criticized for her being " too welcoming" to immigrants. How you are not aware of that at this point is baffling tbh.
There was a huge backlash against her for that very reason.
 
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