Bioshock Writer Fed Up With Industry

[Machine Man 1992]

Oh for christ sake. They're games, can you really be so dense as to be surprised when the GAMEplay of the GAME take more precedence over story?

And why are we so concerned about being compared to other media? Games have different rules to films and books, and by trying to make games more like them, you cheapen the medium.

If this is the kind of person we have writing games, I'm glad she's gone.

 

[RJ 17]

She doesn't sound like the kind of person that loves games or really wants to make them better.

That's the other thing that people have to keep in mind about her and why she wants to leave the game industry...she's not a game writer, she's just a writer. She says so herself that writing for games is just kinda how things turned out for her. She doesn't have any real attachment to games or the gaming industry.

Just saying to those that are wanting to throw stones at her. Granted, this is the internet, but do we REALLY need to hate and insult everyone who has a different opinion/goal than us?

I would falcon punch a Polar Bear to get a full time job writing for video games.

I recently got to do a small project writing for a F2P game and it was so damn fun. The challenge of matching the narrative to the game itself is really neat.

Bioshock Infinite (for example) was beautifully done, I think people are really hungry for a solid story. If they aren't I know I certainly am. Can't get enough of it.

And I agree with pretty much all of the above. I'd love to get a job writing videogames. For her, though, it was just a job she fell into (at least as she describes it).

 

[IBlackKiteI]

by treating a game story the same as a movie you lose the most potent component of video games their interactivity. i feel that to create a truly great story in video games writers must be allowed to work closely with designers to merge story and gameplay seamlessly.

This is exactly it and it seems to be be forgotten sometimes. It's not just writing it good story, it's marrying it to the strengths of the game. You can write a story that doesn't do this kind of thing, that's essentially only told in cutscenes and it might still be great, but it won't be making use of that one extremely important thing that games are the only medium capable of truly offering, interactivity. And if the game's story isn't making use of the player's input, it might as well be told in a book or film.

Doing this sort of thing successfully must be hard as hell, but when a game does pull it off, making you feel like you're playing the story rather than just watching and listening to it, it can be awesome. Unfortunately, while there are loads of games with great stories I feel there are few which truly feel like those stories can only exist in games. If, for instance, all the main events of Deus Ex were put into a novel you'd still miss out on the many ways that the game gives you information, you'd miss out on the many conversations, newspapers, emails, the player choices and the general feel of being in the game's world created by the myriad of ways story elements are conveyed to the player through gameplay. If Max Payne were a novel you'd miss out on very little, as while I love it that game's way of revealing the story to the player is almost exclusively in it's non-interactive cutscenes rather than gameplay itself.

In short I reckon when it comes to making better stories in games we mostly need better collaboration between game designers and story writers and/or more people who are truly passionate and good at both.

 

[frizzlebyte]

So... She admits she has the skills, but doesn't want to do the work to help make the medium better and wants to apply those skills elsewhere...

Pathetic.

Problem is, if all you can get made in the industry (without going indie and risking not being able to pay the bills) is a game that has to have guns and shooting, then it isn't pathetic at all to go elsewhere, but just realizing that the games industry is full of technically-minded people who are not story tellers, or a bunch of publishers who don't think a game can lack guns or shooting people as the core mechanic and still be a game.

The phrase "be the change you want to see in the world" comes to mind when I read this article. If she wants to abandon ship and not be a contributor to paving the way for better storytelling in games then good riddance.

The problem is that the people who make games right now, aside from a select few, see video games in a rather narrow field of view, either incapable of being anything beyond mere "fun," or as being stunted by a lack of VR technology.

When the industry sees you as a third wheel to the "main" dev team, you can't exert change without sacrificing something.

But hasn't she disproved her own point in that her game-writing skills are well... pretty damn good? Lead the pack! Show everyone else how it's done. "Good for us" may not be "good enough for you", but when you're offering the best, you can only lead by example.

I'd say she's more saying that she can't exert enough creative vision within the industry as it stands now. Can't lead by example if you can't get to the front of the pack.

All of these comments are coming from someone who would love to get more liberal arts people into game development, by the way. Her reasons for leaving are the same reasons I had for not going into it in the first place. I'd love to make a video game that stretches the medium, but I think I can tell the stories I want to tell better if the world is of my sole creation, which is why I decided to become a writer and teach English.

 

[ClockworkUniverse]

She might have a better time at TellTale, is what I'm trying to say.

Damn, someone beat me to it.

But yeah, TellTale is pretty much a successful company devoted to fixing her issues with the industry, so I imagine she'd do some damn good work there.

 

[Trishbot]

I know the industry can eat you up and spit you out, but, as a female developer myself, I cling to my female video game designers, writers, and role models, and change will NOT happen so long as people give up on the medium and give in to the "it's for dude-bro shooter types only" mindset.

 

[Maerx]

She doesn't sound like the kind of person that loves games or really wants to make them better.

That's the other thing that people have to keep in mind about her and why she wants to leave the game industry...she's not a game writer, she's just a writer. She says so herself that writing for games is just kinda how things turned out for her. She doesn't have any real attachment to games or the gaming industry.

Just saying to those that are wanting to throw stones at her. Granted, this is the internet, but do we REALLY need to hate and insult everyone who has a different opinion/goal than us?

I have nothing more than respect for her. Although I can't really condone her if she thinks that videogames aren't a good medium for storytelling. Do games need to evolve and get better? HELL YES. But she doesn't look like she wants to part of it.

On top of that she sounds really arrogant, or maybe that's just me.

 

[RJ 17]

She doesn't sound like the kind of person that loves games or really wants to make them better.

That's the other thing that people have to keep in mind about her and why she wants to leave the game industry...she's not a game writer, she's just a writer. She says so herself that writing for games is just kinda how things turned out for her. She doesn't have any real attachment to games or the gaming industry.

Just saying to those that are wanting to throw stones at her. Granted, this is the internet, but do we REALLY need to hate and insult everyone who has a different opinion/goal than us?

I have nothing more than respect for her. Although I can't really condone her if she thinks that videogames aren't a good medium for storytelling. Do games need to evolve and get better? HELL YES. But she doesn't look like she wants to part of it.

On top of that she sounds really arrogant, or maybe that's just me.

Yeah, she really does. But that goes along with the fact that she was never in it for the games in the first place. To her it was just a job, and I'm guessing that's were a lot of her bitterness comes from. Her point, though, wasn't that games can't ever be a good medium, it's that with current industry trends and practices it isn't a good medium right now. Like you said: it needs to evolve.

 

[Callate]

Maybe she's just in the wrong part of the pool. Of course the competitive AAA-market is going to have a higher proportion of technical people to creative people; pushing the technical side of things has been where the industry staked its claim to expansion for years. But in single-A games like Spec-Ops: The Line, Bastion, and Zeno Clash, not to mention an enormous number of smaller independent titles, story has a place of honor and even reverence.

Things aren't going to get better without good writers, and a "good" writer in the world of mainstream fiction has to struggle against both writers who are better and a publishing world where the risk-aversion of publishers falls directly on the writers' heads and stifles creativity, rather than one where that risk-aversion falls farther up the chain and has less direct influence on their work. If I had a job writing for video games, I'd thank my lucky stars for the opportunity to be sheltered and pioneering at the same time.

 

[Grabehn]

"You have to justify why am I shooting everything?" Well... the thing is you don't, You can work around that with the story. I mean, it's not like GAMES have as a main point the GAMEplay. If you cant a story centered product I'd say... read a book. I guess books couldn't really put gameplay over story, could they?

 

[HaraDaya]

My favorite games aren't the ones that tell a story, but the ones that let me create my own.

 

[kordo]

Perhaps Roger Ebert was right after all.

 

[Space Jawa]

Oh for christ sake. They're games, can you really be so dense as to be surprised when the GAMEplay of the GAME take more precedence over story?

And why are we so concerned about being compared to other media? Games have different rules to films and books, and by trying to make games more like them, you cheapen the medium.

If this is the kind of person we have writing games, I'm glad she's gone.

This, because...

Speaking with Gameological, she explained that game stories are so often an afterthought, providing only enough effort to keep the player moving from one level to the next.

and I'm saying this as a writer myself, but the bolded part is all videogames really need as far as story goes.

You know the thing about the all time classic games? Games like Mario and Tetris? Or Pac Man? Even more recent titles like Angry Birds? They have squat for storytelling and yet they're the biggest names in the industry.

Does anyone really care that much about the stories behind Halo, Gears of War, Starcraft, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, or others compared to what they're getting out of the gameplay? If the gameplay stayed the same, does anyone really think the number of players of each would change all that much based on how much more or less work was put into the story?

Can anyone tell me what the story of the current industry juggernaut known as Minecraft is? Does anyone really care what the story of Minecraft is?

Frankly, the story doesn't matter worth a hill of beans if you don't have a game worthy playing. THAT'S why story comes second to gameplay.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well the lady is absolutely right, but I think the responses are the ones who outline the real problem, sadly people are the ones who aren't ready for games with good stories.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Oh for christ sake. They're games, can you really be so dense as to be surprised when the GAMEplay of the GAME take more precedence over story?

And why are we so concerned about being compared to other media? Games have different rules to films and books, and by trying to make games more like them, you cheapen the medium.

If this is the kind of person we have writing games, I'm glad she's gone.

having good game play is no excuse for not having an at least decent story, especially now. Besides, you think most these devs care if they're 'cheapening the medium'? For that to even cross there minds they'd need to see it as an art-form, more Okami/SotC/Dust less Madden/CoD/Gears if you will, but we all know which are more likely to get green lit now don't we

 

[LetalisK]

I agree with her that story needs to be taken more seriously in games. However...

Susan O'Connor knows a thing or two about writing for video games. A games writer for nearly a decade, she's worked on titles like Bioshock, Far Cry 2, and this year's Tomb Raider reboot. Those games are often heralded as superb examples of games with good writing, and certainly represent a high point in O'Connor's career.

Are you kidding me? Far Cry 2 had barely any story and what was there was pure shit. If you want to use Far Cry 2 as an example of a gorgeous game with decent mechanics and combat falling flat on its ass because of a lack of story, much less a good story, perfect. But as an example of a good story? Hell no. It makes me wonder if Heisler has a clue of what he's talking about.

 

[bells]

the amopunt of "DENSE" in this thread is too high.

For fuck sakes........

her point is clear and HAS been proved over and over. in MOST, the LARGE MAJORITY of all great game company, where the greatest art assets lie, where the big budgets are... you cannot come in with a super story and have a game built around that.

in MOST cases, it's the other way around. There is a mechanic, a game is built around that. Then the story gets added in, and it has to fit all the possibilities and limitations of the mechanics already agreed by the technical team. Even if they
have no point in the story the writer would like to tell, regardless of how good it may be.

It's like you getting a book deal worldwide where you are told to write a book but are given a box with marketing assets and description of characters, places and events that your book must contain. It can be done, it can even be good, but you will never be able to create the book the way you want to.

Unless you move to a lower tier developer and very specialized games.

her point being that when i want story in my game i should not just look out for Telltalle or the next look-alike. i Should be able to find it in any game that sells itself with a story. So, not ALL games must have a big grand story... but those who do, should be more honest about it. You don't have your engine designer and lead artist defining what a writer can or cannot write about... that's not how you do story properly. And yet, this is how games are done.

So... she can't simply "trailblaze". It's stupid and near sighted to even come to that conclusion. The fact is that, any great writer that want to work in games has 3 options... have a publisher love your work so much that they make games FOR your book (witcher) even if they butch the story here and there... or have your story completely drive the game in lower tiers and tiny budgets (as most indies do). Or get a big paycheck for a big selling game earned in a job well done in a story you wrote by connecting the dots that a bunch of non-writers gave to you.

That's the landscape we have right now, and guess what? the VERY FEW good examples of story leading design of a story based game don't annul the fact that the majority of story driven games is lead by mechanics. And not all writers want that, because it's a limitation of freedom of creativity impose just to market it more.

That's her argument. it's not hard to understand... i baffle to see just how many people here so blindly missed such a simple point.

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

Well, you can't really expect much with the audience that games attract compared to books for example. If she wants to turn to another medium, good for her, and I am kind of interested.

 

[NiPah]

"It's been an ongoing dissatisfaction that's always been there. But the more savvy I got - and I've been working on these great projects that are arguably the best ever made - it's like, 'This is the mountaintop, and this still isn't cutting it.'"

Pfft mountaintop my ass, credit where credit is due for Bioshock but even with that factored in she's barely above par in writing. Sure the FPS genre has some flops as far as writing goes, it has some damn amazing gems too, certainly much better then even her crowning achievement Bioshock. If she can't make use of the tools she has then that seems more of a personal issue, she would be complaining about the inadequacy of movies or TVs if life had put her in those writing positions. Enjoy writing for Big Bang or what ever it is thats popular these days outside of gaming.

 

[DrunkOnEstus]

She wrote Bioshock, Levine wrote Infinite. That makes things so much clearer to me now. Thank you, Susan.

On another note, it sounds like she's ready for "the big leagues" of writing, mediums where the writing is the central focus. Some of our champions in video game writing are games like Shadow of the Colossus, where the actual text is minimal and the story is in the gameplay itself. Hell, she's only considered a great writer because of audiologs existing in Bioshock, as well as the "masterpiece" and "A man chooses" segments, which involved very little player input. They could have made the 95 percent of Bioshock, brought her in to write the audiologs, and figured out where to hide and pepper them about in order.

It sounds like she either needs to take a pay cut and offer her services to an indie studio willing to build from the ground up for her, or just move on and do work that's solely dialog and story, such as books. She's not going to get what she's asking from the AAA market, and she seems aware of that fact too. Whatever she chooses, she has my thanks for what enjoyment she's offered me up to this point.